It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[newbirth]

Heb 12
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

.

you always stop short there are clear instructions how to live before God
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. [SUP]15 [/SUP]See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; [SUP]16 [/SUP]that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

The fornicator was evidently restored to fellowship in his local church in 2 Corinthians after excommunication and being delivered to satan with the purpose of maintaining the man's salvation.

according to your own method of reasoning the scripture does not say it is the same person

[SUP]5 [/SUP]If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. [SUP]8 [/SUP]I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, [SUP]11 [/SUP]in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

 

[Atwood]

Secure in the Savior

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

To Gain Eternal Life, Salvation Requires That Man Believe

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and
whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[konroh]

Atwood, I did read your post about the 4 soils. You surmise that because the rocky soil receives the word (an it and not a person) this is not real belief. But how does the seed sprout? Obviously there is germination, there is a product, there's a result. There is real faith.

In 1 Tim. 2:4 there isn't mention of a Savior, a Him, or belief in Him, but it clearly refers to salvation: "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Your contention that because it doesn't refer to Jesus or belief in Him then it isn't really salvation doesn't hold up biblically.

Obviously the 4 soils is not just about initial salvation, it's about any receiving of the word, including the initial word of the gospel of salvation, but also covering more, covering any time the word is preached or taught or heard and received.

 

[2Thewaters]

an antinomian is "one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation"

Nicolatians believed this false theology.

God hated the nicolatians

see revelation.

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


The cure is given in the same verse

STUDY THE BIBLE and all these false doctrines fall away.


"Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments." -Psalms 119:6.


"With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments." -Psalms 119:10.


"I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me." -Psalms 119:19.


"Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments." -Psalms 119:21.


"I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart." -Psalms 119:32.


"Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." -Psalms 119:35.


"And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved." -Psalms 119:47.


"My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes." -Psalms 119:48.


"I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments." -Psalms 119:60.


"Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments." -Psalms 119:66.


"JOD. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments." -Psalms 119:73.


"All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me." -Psalms 119:86.


"Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me." -Psalms 119:98.


"Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God." -Psalms 119:115.


"Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold." -Psalms 119:127.


"I opened my mouth, and panted: for I longed for thy commandments." -Psalms 119:131.


"Trouble and anguish have taken hold on me: yet thy commandments are my delights." -Psalms 119:143.


"Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth." -Psalms 119:151.


"LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments." -Psalms 119:166.


"My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness." -Psalms 119:172.


"I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments." -Psalms 119:176.

 

[2Thewaters]

Eccl 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[Atwood]

Eccl 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.

So waters, what will you do since you do not do your duty & do not keep the commandments? Get asbestos underwear?

He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

And he spake also this parable unto certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner. I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other:

There is none that doeth righteousness, no not one.
All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

The commandments are a tutor to bring us to Christ. The commandments expose our sin, frustrate our moral purpose, and lead us to trust a Savior, hopefully.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Commandments Condemn; the Savior Saves from Sin.

an antinomian is "one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation"
Nicolatians believed this false theology.

Baloney. What you said above has no proof. Revelation refers to no "Nicolatians." It refers to Nicolaitans. And to id them with persons who believe in justification by faith is just made up garbage.

STUDY THE BIBLE and all these false doctrines fall away.

How many times have you read the Bible through, waters? I have read it times beyond counting. I have gone through the whole Bible marking in pink every verse on salvation including those that opponents would claim. Have you done that?

Now waters, since you are a sinner who does not keep God's commandments, what will you do in the judgment?

[quote["I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart." -Psalms 119:32.[/quote]

Good works follow being saved by grace through faith (Eph 2). You will not keep the commandments before you get transformed by God's grace. Men need a transformed heart.

"Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." -Psalms 119:35.

So you won't keep the commandments by dint of free will?

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins."

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

No one will be justified by the works of the law.

 

[Atwood]

Focus 1st On Propositional Teaching, Not Parables

Atwood, I did read your post about the 4 soils. You surmise that because the rocky soil receives the word (an it and not a person) this is not real belief.

Good morning konroh,

I never said it was not real belief. Persons may or may not have a real belief that God's Word is God's word & true. This is not trusting Christ as Savior.

But how does the seed sprout? Obviously there is germination, there is a product, there's a result. There is real faith.

The story does not say "There is real faith." Of course the belief in the word is genuine, as it appears King Agrippa's belief in the prophets was real. But KA did not trust Christ as Savior.

Beware of trying to make a parable walk on all fours. Some of a parable is just part of the story. Doctrine is established by propositional teaching, not by figures of speech and metaphors. The figures of speech, parables, and metaphors must be interpreted to conform with propositional teaching. Since you don't quote the parable & distinguish between what is just part of the story and the actual interpretation that the Lord gives, it is hard to interact with your post.

The story says it had no root.
So then how are you claiming that someone trusted Christ as Savior? And is that what it is about? or is it about receiving the word about the Kingdom of God?

In 1 Tim. 2:4 there isn't mention of a Savior, a Him, or belief in Him, but it clearly refers to salvation: "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Your contention that because it doesn't refer to Jesus or belief in Him then it isn't really salvation doesn't hold up biblically.

1 Timothy 2:4 says nothing about the Parable of the 4 soils. There is no disproof of what I said about the rocky soil. The parable says what I said it says: receiving the word, not belief in Christ, and no root. To show that what I say doesn't hold up, you need to quote the parable where it says "believe in Christ." But you cannot.

God wants all men to be saved, yes. He wants all to come to the knowledge of the truth, yes. That hardly implies that all who come to knowledge of the truth are saved.

Obviously the 4 soils is not just about initial salvation, it's about any receiving of the word, including the initial word of the gospel of salvation, but also covering more, covering any time the word is preached or taught or heard and received.

Well, where is the obviousness? What is obvious is that you don't quote the parable or prove anything about it. Thus these claims are not established.

What is clear from the verses which I quoted before is that
1) what is received is the word,
2) the word is the word of the Kingdom,
3) all you may infer is that what is believed is the word, not the Savior,
4) the seed has no root in the soil.

That looks to me like a mental reception, but it did not go to the heart (the root) of the person.

At any rate, konroh, would you mind next time quoting your passage & reasoning from it?

But really if you want to consider eternal security, the place to focus on is passages that speak on the subject.

I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
He who began a good work in you will complete it.
The author & perfecter of our faith.
Peter, I prayed that your faith fail not.
These things I have written to you who believe that you may know that you have eternal life.
We have been begotten again (the word took root) to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled, reserved in Heaven, guarded by the Lord Himself.

He is able to keep us from falling & to present us faultless before the presence of His glory.

Foreknew, foreordained, called, justified, glorified; unbreakable chain.
Nothing present or to come can separate the believer from that special love in Christ Jesus.

The evidence for eternal security is overwhelming. Go to the Parable of the Soils with that in mind. The Parable has no contradiction with this.

Remember that Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

He is the Savior. One must trust Him as Savior, not as mere "chance-giver."

 

[Atwood]

Eternal Security in the Psalms

I will lift up my eyes to the mountains:
From whence shall my help come?
My help cometh from Jehovah,
Who made heaven and earth.
He will not suffer thy foot to be moved:
He that keepeth thee will not slumber.
Behold, he that keepeth Israel
Will neither slumber nor sleep.
Jehovah is thy keeper:
Jehovah is thy shade upon thy right hand.
The sun shall not smite thee by day,
Nor the moon by night.
Jehovah will keep thee from all evil;
He will keep thy soul.
Jehovah will keep thy going out and thy coming in
From this time forth and for evermore.
- Ps 121

 

[Atwood]

Eternal Security in the Hand

"the shepherd of the sheep. . . . the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice . . . .


Verily, verily, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. . . .
I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture. The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. He that is a hireling, and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholdeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf snatcheth them, and scattereth them: he fleeth because he is a hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me, even as the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.. . .
. . .
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.


All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he has given me I should lose nothing,


< Ps 125
They who trust in YHWH
Are as mount Zion, which cannot be moved, but abides for ever.
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem,
So YHWH is round about HIS PEOPLE
From this time forth and for evermore.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.

 

[Alligator]

Eternal Security is truth but a lie. It tells people that once they accept Christ they are saved no matter how many banks they rob or how many drugs they do. It's alright as long as you attended this church and pay tithes.

What is your proof of that one, Kerry?
What is your proof that trusting Christ as SAvior & giver of eternal security promotes sin? You got a verse for that one?

If you insist the Christ is not your Savior, but your chance-giver, that will not help you stay out of gross sin. So will you refuse salvation from sin because that would make you sin? -- which BTW you already do.

Contemplate this saying until it soaks in:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sin.

and what do you think "he shall save his people from their sins" proves ? I'll tell you one thing, it doesn't help your theory. Christ came into the world to save all sinners. Will all sinners be saved? Obviously not, because many will not accept Him. So this scripture has nothing to do with ES or OSAS.

If you believe in this garbage (eternal security), then of course you can go out and do what you want and still be saved. How long does it take that to soak in.?

 

[Atwood]

and what do you think "he shall save his people from their sins" proves ? I'll tell you one thing, it doesn't help your theory. Christ came into the world to save all sinners. Will all sinners be saved? . . . If you believe in this garbage

He shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.

It proves that He shall save His people from their sins.

Sing it!

Hallelujah 'tis done,
I believe in God's Son,
I am safe in the hands of the Crucified One!

Let that sink in; it is not garbage.

The Lord Jesus is the Savior,
not the mere "chance-giver."

To become a "His People" (instead of an "all sinners") repent of relegating him to "chance-giver" and trust Him as Your Savior.

 

[kennethcadwell]

" Belief in a person "

If you believe in some one, you also believe in what they stood for, and what they said.

{ As applied to our Lord Jesus Christ }

To believe in Him is to believe what He did, stood for, commanded, and all that He said.


This is what He said,
You must repent, you must confess Him before men, you must be baptized/born again, you must endure to the end, you must forgive others of their sins, you must do for and esteem others more than self.

These are just some of what He said and of course we can not forget the great commission:

Matthew 28:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen

 

[SeaBass]

He shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.

It proves that He shall save His people from their sins.

Sing it!

Hallelujah 'tis done,
I believe in God's Son,
I am safe in the hands of the Crucified One!

Let that sink in; it is not garbage.

The Lord Jesus is the Savior,
not the mere "chance-giver."

To become a "His People" (instead of an "all sinners") repent of relegating him to "chance-giver" and trust Him as Your Savior.

His people, His disciples, those that obey Him, Jew or Gentile - Heb 5:9....CHRISTIANS!!

The group Christian shall be saved. Even though one is in this saved group today he can, in time by unfaithfulness, fall from that saved group and be lost. No one has unconditional salvation outside the group Christian.

 

[SeaBass]

and what do you think "he shall save his people from their sins" proves ? I'll tell you one thing, it doesn't help your theory. Christ came into the world to save all sinners. Will all sinners be saved? Obviously not, because many will not accept Him. So this scripture has nothing to do with ES or OSAS.

If you believe in this garbage (eternal security), then of course you can go out and do what you want and still be saved. How long does it take that to soak in.?

A Christian can live in fornication as the man in 1 Cor 5 and remain saved. One can spend his money on harlots as the prodigal son and remain saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You need to read that chapter again. He will only remain saved if through putting him away he comes to repentance then his soul will be saved. If he continues in fornication, God will then judge him for he has become an outsider to the faith.

You can not serve both God and satan. The bible makes it clear that those who continue in unrepented or willful sins are serving satan.

A Christian can live in fornication as the man in 1 Cor 5 and remain saved. One can spend his money on harlots as the prodigal son and remain saved.

 

[SeaBass]

You need to read that chapter again. He will only remain saved if through putting him away he comes to repentance then his soul will be saved. If he continues in fornication, God will then judge him for he has become an outsider to the faith.

You can not serve both God and satan. The bible makes it clear that those who continue in unrepented or willful sins are serving satan.

Alligator+ had said If you believe in this garbage (eternal security), then of course you can go out and do what you want and still be saved.


I was just pointing out 1 Cor 5 and the prodigal son from an Eternal Security point of view. And according to Eternal Security one can live in fornication as the man in 1 Cor 5 and spend money on harlots as the prodigal and remain saved

 

[Atwood]

The ES-Wud-Cause-Big-Sin Canard

How many times has someone objected:

Why Eternal Security would mean that someone could/would sin big time, fornicating, stealing, killing, etc. knowing that he would go to Heaven anyway.

Have you ever heard an objection like this one:

Why Eternal Security would mean that someone could/would fail to love God with all his heart & fail to love neighbor as self!

Some of you may think that fornicating, stealing, and killing are bigger sins that failing to love neighbor as self. So if someone confessed to you in your church, "I committed adultery with a woman" you would immediately want to excommunicate the guy. But if someone confessed to you, "I failed to love my neighbor yesterday," you would say, "Tut tut. We all do that."

From where does someone get the idea that killing & adulterizing are bigger sins than failing to love God with all your heart???

So even tho to trust Christ as Savior means that one enters a "His People" relationship with God in which "He shall save His people from their sins," do you argue that trusting Christ as only & sufficient Savior, giver of eternal life, would lead to sin??? What actually promotes sin is failing to trust Him as Savior while down-grading Him to "chance-giver."

 

[Atwood]

So You Think ES Leads to Sin?

And then you don't think that the biggest sin is to fail to love the Lord with all your heart, but something else you think you don't do?

So you don't believe that the love of Christ constrains & motivates to love back? And you don't believe that he who is forgiven much, loves much the forgiver?

"And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he entered into the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to meat. And behold, a woman who was in the city, a sinner; and when she knew that he was sitting at meat in the Pharisee’s house, she brought an alabaster cruse of ointment, and standing behind at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

"Now when the Pharisee that had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have perceived who and what manner of woman this is who is touching him, that she is a sinner.

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee.

'And he saith, Teacher, say on.

"A certain lender had two debtors: the one owed five hundred shillings, and the other fifty. When they had not wherewith to pay, he forgave them both. Which of them therefore will love him most?

"Simon answered and said, He, I suppose, to whom he forgave the most.

"And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And turning to the woman, he said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thy house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath wetted my feet with her tears, and wiped them with her hair. Thou gavest me no kiss: but she, since the time I came in, hast not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but she hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that even forgiveth sins? And he said unto the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."

" I entered into thy house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath wetted my feet with her tears, and wiped them with her hair. Thou gavest me no kiss: but she, since the time I came in, hast not ceased to kiss my feet."

Just so, the self-righteous works-righteous pretend Christian (who denies eternal security) has no real love for the Lord Jesus. That pretender thinks he will go to Heaven because he is such a righteous good-deed doer.

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; . . .
but to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little. And he said to her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that even forgiveth sins? And he said unto the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."

It was faith that saved this woman, not works. Upon her faith, she was forgiven; she had trusted Christ as Savior. The result was love and love expressed in personal deeds done to the Lord Jesus.

Trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior (instead of dismissing Him as chance-giver) leads to love for the Lord. He has saved; He has promised eternal life; He has promised to never leave or forsake us; He has forgiven us all our sins because He paid for them all on the cross.

The result is great love for the Savior, not great sin. But then perhaps some write off love for the Savior as unimportant.

Don't tell me that belief in eternal security leads to failing to love the Lord; that would be utter nonsense. And don't tell me that something else is more important -- it is not. And it is the heart that the Lord is most interested in; our love for Him, which is impossible until one trusts Christ as Savior and gets a new nature.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

And the result of this is great love for the Savior.