Note 1John 4:10,11
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
It was God's love/grace that saved us who believe on Jesus.
Christians therefore should show the same love/grace to one another. That means we never preach condemnation/death under the law. Instead we forgive 7x70. And we preach the gospel of Christ to help the spiritually needy/lost, Matt 25.
Note here how you preach condemnation for sin/transgression of the law. It's this that I disagree with you on, as Christians are not under the law anyway.
To charge one with "sin" implies that they're under the law, as whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
So your point that those who sin deserve condemnation/death is consistent with what the law says. To preach the law as you do suggests that your under the law.
But Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9), hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
As for your concern about Christians getting away with selfish behavior, God disciplines us should we do so. Consider King David with his adultery/murder.
None of us a perfect in behavior. Not even the legalists.
The difference between Christians and legalists is that Christians cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law because we're not under the law for righteousness. Instead it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
Legalists however, will be judged by the law they put themselves under, and found guilty of all of it, thus facing condemnation/death as is required under the law.
Hi Haz,
I think I am getting a better Idea of your point, so thanx for taking the time to explain that.
So it seems that the problem here is our understanding of what constitutes being under the law.
The First point I will make is I think you are half right on this. I mean this in reference to the legalist/works based Christian trying to earn salvation by obedience to the law.
This can be seen in a few places:
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Paul was speaking specifically to those who started out in Faith and then tried to keep the law for salvation. while the issue being addressed in Galatians is most specifically dealing with circumcision which can be seen here:
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
however the principle I believe carries across to every aspect of law keeping to earn salvation no matter which part even the 10 commandments.
we agree on this point I think so I wont go any further on this aspect. But I think you limit what it means to be under the law.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Notice we were held under the law till faith came and that by Faith we are Justified, This is important and tells us that Justification is what takes us from under the law to Grace and it is by Faith.
we are either Justified by Faith or under the law, there is no middle ground.
We know we are justified by Faith as spoken of in another post but Paul also said only the doers of the law will be justified.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
This law clearly is the moral code/10 commandments as seen when you read further down the chapter. but then he makes the point that it is by the spirit that this law is fulfilled in the Gentiles. this is repeated in chapter 8 when Paul speaks in depth of the Spirit:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Does this match up with being under the law?
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
notice that by law is the knowledge of sin. Sin is the problem the law points it out so that there is no excuse.
If you sin you are under the law. That is the purpose of the law it was added because:
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
It was given because of sin. this matches with Romans. Paul says this,
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
again the law points out sin. thus those who sin are under the law.
Paul makes the point that being in Faith does not permit sin:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Notice that those who are justified by Faith do not make void the law but establish it.
To make void is to take away or nullify. so they do not do this.
To establish means to continue to uphold to abide in etc. the exact opposite of make void.
So this matches with Paul's statement that only the doers of the law will be Justified.
Notice also here where Paul talks about being under the law:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
being under grace does not allow us to sin, sin as you know is breaking the law. if Paul says that we should not sin under grace that is the same as saying we should keep the law under grace.
simple equation,
Sin = breaking the law
not sinning= keeping the law.
not sinning is the opposite of sinning. Then Paul makes a wonderful point that who we obey we serve either sin or obedience. in other words either obey and live or disobey and die.
This is strengthened by the Fact that Paul says this:
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
notice the point here, sin was in the world before the law. and thus death was everyone due even before the law came.
you may say but sin is not imputed without law yet Paul says:
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Here is the point Adam sinned and was cast out of the Garden and presence of God, Satan sinned and was cast out of heaven with all the angels that followed Him. This was before the law was given yet they still were held under death. Sin is the problem and the issue that needs fixing. Jesus is the answer,
Simply taking away the law does not make sin ok or acceptable. and If God did not spare the angels:
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
If God did not spare them then he will not spare us who after receiving a knowledge of Christ continue in willful sin.
The Gospel is not a cover its a restoration by faith in Jesus.
You are under the law if you try to work for your salvation or if you continue in known Sin.
Now that all sounds bad to you I am sure but not when you understand how much Christ accomplished on the cross for us.
There is Power in the blood to overcome every sinful act every sinful thought because greater is he that is in you than He that is in the world.
Faith is the key to all this.
We are covered by Christ and his righteousness but His righteousness transforms us into new creatures. we are given a new heart and the power of the Spirit.
SO the issue is not can I overcome sin. the question is can God keep me from sinning. I say Yes all things are possible with God and I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.
