Baptism Essential to Salvation

[eternally-gratefull]

Here it says ....
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How are we saved without the washing away of sins. God does his part(grace) and commands us to do our part(faith). That is our act of faith showing we believe. If you disobey it means you did not believe(through faith) Faith without works is dead.

your going to go one verse? do we make a doctrine of one verse?

What about ALL the verses where people were saved BEFORE they got baptised. I guess that means nothing to you huh?

why are you so desperate to think you can EARN your salvation? Don;t you know when you stand in front of God you stand condemned by the law. No water baptism is going to cancel out that condemnation. the only thing that can is the death of Christ. You better let God baptize you into that death so you can be a partake of it. And stop trying to save yourself. or the law will do what it was sent for. And condemn you.

 

[homwardbound]

I'll stay with clear bible teachings that show baptism saves Matt 28:19,20; Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-6; 1 Cor 12:13; Gal 3:27; Eph 5:26; Col 2:11,12

Spirit Baptism is what and John the Baptist was very clear on this:
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

We are today after the cross is done happened and Christ risen and ascended, the Holy Spirit of truth has come and is ready to reside in you, if you are ready to give up on you, and ask God to live for you, to preach truth to all the world in God's type of love to all in 1 Cor 13:4-7

 

[homwardbound]

Did you see how Rom 6:3 says "baptized into His death"? And He shed His blood in His death, Jn 19:37. So by baptism putting one into His death, then baptism brings one in contact with His blood that was shed in His death. There is just a too obvious, easy connection made between Christ's death and baptism many just refuse to see.

In Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was speaking to His apostles and it was the apostles Jesus was promising baptism wit the HS, not anyone else.

And you don't see the difference in Spirit and water? Or that John said the he the water Baptism must decrease while Christ's increases and essentially takes over?

 

[apostolic862004]

Yes in looking at that alone you are correct, yet why not read all of Acts and see the written history of what took place and did change over the days of Acts.
If it were in Acts that this one got saved over the radio or internet, then would all have to be saved this same way?
This is what you are promoting, When Peter learned from God that God gave salvation to the Gentiles before this ritual of water Baptism, happened at the house of Cornelius, a Gentile house, which it was unlawful for Peter to even enter into by Law yet led by the Holy Ghost did, and the Holy Ghost (God) spoke through him and they believed. and were saved and are saved.
Now if they say did not get water Baptized afterwards, would this salvation have been taken away?

They were not saved UNTIL they finished the process. Salvation takes repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism. Until you complete all three, you have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. Plain and simple.

 

[homwardbound]

Did you see how Rom 6:3 says "baptized into His death"? And He shed His blood in His death, Jn 19:37. So by baptism putting one into His death, then baptism brings one in contact with His blood that was shed in His death. There is just a too obvious, easy connection made between Christ's death and baptism many just refuse to see.

In Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was speaking to His apostles and it was the apostles Jesus was promising baptism wit the HS, not anyone else.

Mixing oil and water does not mix, never has never will. It can be stirred up in a glass to appear to, but when all is calmed down, they simply separate, can't mix
Just like if one puts new wine into old wine skins, it fits at first until the fermenting and the wineskin breaks and one loses the new wine
Water Baptism great, and puts one on the road to do right and just can't do it, needs to come to the end of the energy of their own flesh ways, and give up all over to God, and that is waht the Spirit shows and tells, the Spirit of Father through Son

 

[homwardbound]

What is the hope of the disobedient? ...are we now going to peel off all Christ commands one by one because someone says it does not save?...
everyone has their own opinion but the word still saysMatthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Not sure what you do not understand yet, but God knows, go into all the world and tell of the Love of God to all by Son and then love that way to all, quit being editors and be newspaper boys of the good news of what God did for us while we all were yet unbelievers and selfish in all our deeds, Christ took it all on himself and died for us all, to bring us to new life in Spirit and truth via the resurrected Christ and we thus by Faith walk in Love as he did to all

True or not true Brother

 

[homwardbound]

They were not saved UNTIL they finished the process. Salvation takes repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism. Until you complete all three, you have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. Plain and simple.

Okay then see you there at the great white throne Judgment, love you regardless of what mathematical formula you have whipped up to bring stress and no rest for God's children as this is why God went to the cross for us all, to give us new life in the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth right here right now, before any water Baptism is done. Shown truthfully in Acts when the Holy Spirit of God fell onto the Gentiles as God preached truth through Peter to them and id it illegally as by Law was not suppose to enter a Gentile house
God bless you Brother and pray you see God can do whatever God wants to, you be under Law any Law and praying you see through it and all it's mess that it brings onto flesh efforts, and not ever be perfect in and of self as it is what you without knowing are promoting
praying for the proper blessing for me and you as well, to know God personally and rest in God forever even now, and daily after, by dieing daily to self at the cross with Christ to the flesh and be alive in Spirit and truth. Which water Baptism never did this.
And am not condemning water Baptism, just properly putting it in place, and seeing where it is today as a good conscience between God and you personally

 

[homwardbound]

They were not saved UNTIL they finished the process. Salvation takes repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism. Until you complete all three, you have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. Plain and simple.

So have you finished the process and are you saved and others that do not do this process by your interpratation are not saved?

Has God left you in Charge? I love you Brother who does the saving?

 

[apostolic862004]

So have you finished the process and are you saved and others that do not do this process by your interpratation are not saved?

Has God left you in Charge? I love you Brother who does the saving?

Yes I have finished the process, and yes I am saved. But that process only gets you into the kingdom of God. That is how you are born again. I am growing in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. You can't grow if you haven't been born yet. And no, God has not left me in charge, he left me his word and I obeyed it. Everyone who obeys his word will be saved, everyone who does not, will be lost forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I have finished the process, and yes I am saved. But that process only gets you into the kingdom of God. That is how you are born again. I am growing in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. You can't grow if you haven't been born yet. And no, God has not left me in charge, he left me his word and I obeyed it. Everyone who obeys his word will be saved, everyone who does not, will be lost forever.

hell well do you obey his word.

And what is the dividing line between you. WHo obeys to be saved, and the lost. Who did not obey it well enough?

 

[newbirth]

your going to go one verse? do we make a doctrine of one verse?

What about ALL the verses where people were saved BEFORE they got baptised. I guess that means nothing to you huh?

why are you so desperate to think you can EARN your salvation? Don;t you know when you stand in front of God you stand condemned by the law. No water baptism is going to cancel out that condemnation. the only thing that can is the death of Christ. You better let God baptize you into that death so you can be a partake of it. And stop trying to save yourself. or the law will do what it was sent for. And condemn you.

I am not here to make doctrine I stand on the word of God you stand on the doctrine of man...We are saved by grace God does that through faith your part. Key phrase they got baptized if it was not necessary why do it???? to you it's a bath to us who believe it is obedience of faith...

 

[SeaBass]

Yes it is. Paul said as much in his letter to the collossians.

They both represented the cleansing which would (or has) come by the death of Christ.



You did not read the passage very well.

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Unless the MAN who baptized you rose Christ from the dead. He had no power to baptize you unto Christ, where you were circumcized with the hands of God with the circumcision of Christ.

No verse says circumcision is the OT type for NT baptism.

You're misreading Col 2:11,12 for it says nothing about the man doing the baptizing, it is talking about the person being baptized.

 

[SeaBass]

You believe this great, I am happy for you, see you there, I do not have the same view as you, yet I beleive Christ went to the cross for us all to come to belief and be Baptized by Father in Spirit and truth, and not by mankind's view as it is still flesh mankind, persecuting god in Spirit and truth to this very day. And God knows who theses are ant are not, So I am at resat over it, are you?

Tell me using scripture, who were the ones in Acts 2 that were being saved?

 

[SeaBass]

Actually I have been given two ears to hear and discern error from truth, and trust by giving all I hear to Farther whom teaches me to just love all as he does and did through Son

But you cannot prove that the pronouns "you" in Mt 3:11 refer to you.

 

[SeaBass]

Okay, say I believe and have not gotten publicly water Baptized, is God faithful to save me, by Son? and I am not speaking of those that can care less and take this grace for granted.

God remits sins/cuts away sins at the point of baptism, Acts 2:38; Col 2:11,12, so one is still lost in his sins until baptized.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes in looking at that alone you are correct, yet why not read all of Acts and see the written history of what took place and did change over the days of Acts.
If it were in Acts that this one got saved over the radio or internet, then would all have to be saved this same way?
This is what you are promoting, When Peter learned from God that God gave salvation to the Gentiles before this ritual of water Baptism, happened at the house of Cornelius, a Gentile house, which it was unlawful for Peter to even enter into by Law yet led by the Holy Ghost did, and the Holy Ghost (God) spoke through him and they believed. and were saved and are saved.
Now if they say did not get water Baptized afterwards, would this salvation have been taken away?

Prove using scripture who the ones in Acts 2 that were being saved.

Nowhere does Acts 10 say the Gentiles were saved before they were water baptized. That idea rewrites many verses as Mk 16;16 and Acts 2:38 that put water baptism BEFORE salvation. So it was not possible the Gentiles were saved before they were water baptized else contradictions exists.

 

[SeaBass]

Spirit Baptism is what and John the Baptist was very clear on this:
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

We are today after the cross is done happened and Christ risen and ascended, the Holy Spirit of truth has come and is ready to reside in you, if you are ready to give up on you, and ask God to live for you, to preach truth to all the world in God's type of love to all in 1 Cor 13:4-7

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, andwith fire:

Proper exegesis requires one to understand who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said. So prove to me that the pronouns "you" refer to you.

 

[SeaBass]

And you don't see the difference in Spirit and water? Or that John said the he the water Baptism must decrease while Christ's increases and essentially takes over?

I see that Christ shed His blood in His death and what that means for you, me and everyone else is for our sins to be washed away by the blood of Christ we must have access into Christ's death where that blood was shed and baptism is what gives access to His blood. Not faith only, not a sinner's prayer but baptism gives access into Christ's death.

 

[SeaBass]

Mixing oil and water does not mix, never has never will. It can be stirred up in a glass to appear to, but when all is calmed down, they simply separate, can't mix
Just like if one puts new wine into old wine skins, it fits at first until the fermenting and the wineskin breaks and one loses the new wine
Water Baptism great, and puts one on the road to do right and just can't do it, needs to come to the end of the energy of their own flesh ways, and give up all over to God, and that is waht the Spirit shows and tells, the Spirit of Father through Son

I am not talking about mixing oil and water, but talking about HOW does one get into Christ's death where His shed blood is found? Water baptism.

 

[Alligator]

you won;t find it, because the word baptize did not exist until the greek text was intetrpreted into the english language,

For some reason ( I will never figure this out or understand why) the interpretors did not translate the word, they transliterated it. Thus baptizo became baptize, Baptizmo became baptism, so on and so forth.

What is water baptism? It is man immersing us in water to signify cleansing. can we find this in the OT?

In fact, one of the interpretations of baptism in the NT is the OT ritual of washing. We see the first act of baptim being done by Moses.

Leviticus 8:6
Then Moses brought Aaron and his sons and washed them with water.

Now unless you think Moses took arron and his sons to the river, made them strip naked, Took a towel and some soap and washed them, Chances are (And I believe he did) He took them down and immersed them in the river, signifying they had been cleaned. From this time forward. ALL men from levi who were being consecrated as priests went through this ritual. It was for the benefit of all who witnessed it, That these men were being set apart as priests of God. It literally had no washing power. And no one was ever saved by it, but it was done.



I am not taking rom 6 figuratively. I am taking it literally.

If we actually interpret the word baptizo, instead of use the unfortunate transliterated word. it literally says this.

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were immersed or placed into into Christ Jesus were immersed or placed into into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through being immersed or placed into into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

You see the passage takes on a whole new meaning. I was placed into the death of Christ, I was placed into the burial of Christ, As Christ died, I also died and was buried in him

As for a verse which says I was baptized into Christ by God.

again using the translated word not the transliterated.


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were immersed or placed into into Christ have put on Christ.

and even another. Since I am baptized into the body of Christ. which is Christ himself


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all immersed or placed into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

This tells us quite clearly, it was by the spirit, and we were made to drink (partake) of that spirit. this of course (doing as you said, and take ;literally and not figuratively( could be non other than God himself. The HS. We know this, because paul tells us in titus 3 5 it was the HS who washed us in the washing of regeneration.




I agree 100 % here my friend. 100%



Your right, Recieving the HS is not the same as baptism of the spirit. But as again we see in the OT sy,mbol of being made a priest. they were washed, then annointed. the washing came first. Moses (representing God) baptized arron and his family, then annointed them. The annointing is the act of the spirit coming in us. the baptism is the act of the spirit putting us into Christ (His death and burial, and his body) which cleanses us from all sin.

All a man can do is dunk you in water, he can not place you into the death burial and body of Christ, Only God can do this.

ps my friend, do not worry about taking along time, it is fine

Finally I'm back to this one. I don't have a lot to add. I think we have pretty well beaten this to death. but I will have just a few thoughts.

Regardless of what word we use, I do not find any requirement for baptism in the Old Testament. Christ baptism represents the death burial and resurrection of Christ. See Romans 6:3–6. This is the baptism that should concern us.

Jesus performed baptism of the Holy Spirit on two occasions. On the day of Pentecost it was given to the apostles and also to the Cornelius householld. He has issued the great commission just prior to His death, and asked the apostle to go into the world and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father the son and Holy Spirit. That is water baptism and that is what saves us today.