Baptism Essential to Salvation

[homwardbound]

The question isn't whether God is faithful to save you, the question whether YOU are faithful to OBEY him.

No man is ever and being in unredeemed flesh can't. Before or after the cross

Who is unless it is God given you asking for it, please Lord help my unbelief, for not one man from Adam to Christ was ever perfect, many close and only by trusting God were reckoned as well by God, yet not one perfect until Christ.
And no one ever after Christ.
And not one man can touch the Christ in perfection, why?
for Christ is the only one without A biological earth Father, born of the Virgin Mary, which no other is
So it is all dependent on whether one believes or not and that consciously, and Father knows who are who, and I am at rest and in thankfulness for that

 

[homwardbound]

I didn't say they were all saved. But none of them would have been saved if they hadn't gotten circumcised. They could have done everything else in the law and they still would have been lost if they hadn't gotten circumcised. I also didn't say that circumcision was the ONLY thing that saved them.

Maybe you don't get it. Blood is the payment to Father to stop Father from killing us, as is what I deserve is to be killed righteously by God
[h=1]Exodus 4:24-26Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][SUP]24 [/SUP]And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Christ is the final payment to Father for us all to get new life from Father here and now in Spirit and truth period
Thanking Christ for the completed sacrifice and completed shedding of blood to be saved thereby
Your Faith has saved you, add to it and might be accursed that is between God and you

<span id="en-AKJV-1628" class="text Exod-4-26">[video=youtube;gJ-bhM-xuec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=gJ-bhM-xuec[/video]

so I see you are fighting to not be stressed out and worried over any and all you might do or not do, when God through you is your doer, and you don't have to live like a refugee any more

 

[homwardbound]

They were not saved UNTIL they finished the process. Salvation takes repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism. Until you complete all three, you have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. Plain and simple.

So you are telling me that if Cornelius's house did not get water Baptized afterwards, that the Holy Ghost that already came on them at God's preaching to them through Peter, God would have taken away what God already gave?
I think not, yet it is good to be water Baptized, but not for washing away sins

Oh and the Israelites were saved passing trhrough the Red Sea and were not drowned in water as the Egyptians were as well as Noah and Sons,
Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! water Baptism killed them ant they did not live, and Israel rejoiced over God's diliverance and the world feared God as waht happened passed to all the rest of the world
[h=1]1 Peter 3:13-22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? [SUP]14 [/SUP]But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: [SUP]16 [/SUP]having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: [SUP]19 [/SUP]by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; [SUP]20 [/SUP]which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: [SUP]22 [/SUP]who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
So go ahead be drowned, pray you are raised to new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrectred Christ?

 

[homwardbound]

Yes I have finished the process, and yes I am saved. But that process only gets you into the kingdom of God. That is how you are born again. I am growing in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. You can't grow if you haven't been born yet. And no, God has not left me in charge, he left me his word and I obeyed it. Everyone who obeys his word will be saved, everyone who does not, will be lost forever.

So once one is born again, won't they do whatever God tells them, in Love? So where is the I have to or else as is what I read here?
Do you really think God to be tyrannical as human flesh is along with this world, grow in that grace Brother are you willing to see how deep God's love truly is?
[h=1]Ephesians 3:16-18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[homwardbound]

I am not here to make doctrine I stand on the word of God you stand on the doctrine of man...We are saved by grace God does that through faith your part. Key phrase they got baptized if it was not necessary why do it???? to you it's a bath to us who believe it is obedience of faith...

As and by a response in thanksgiving and praise to God a good conscience of thankfulness

 

[homwardbound]

Tell me using scripture, who were the ones in Acts 2 that were being saved?

And so you make this doctrine, and so no one can be saved unless they do this as they did

Now if it were recorded in Acts that these were saved over the radio, would that become Doctrine, that no one can be saved but over the radio?

 

[homwardbound]

But you cannot prove that the pronouns "you" in Mt 3:11 refer to you.

And this is you, making issue out of what you?
If I agreed with you then you would love me, and so I ask you. (*this is about you) do you love me anyway?

 

[homwardbound]

God remits sins/cuts away sins at the point of baptism, Acts 2:38; Col 2:11,12, so one is still lost in his sins until baptized.

Go, Go Go on with your bad self full of Doctrine that has brought works as the way to be saved by getting water Baptized. you make a mockery of the cross of Christ and the free gift od new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ where we are made alive by Father in Spirit and truth
You are adding to the whole truth and causing work to take the place of Faith,
You show me your works that has caused your Faith
And i will show you God's faith that has caused my love for all, whether anyone agrees with me or not

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

You reject the gift when you make it a command. A command is not willingly done by the one that is commanded. You make my Father to be a tyrant and my Father, the Father of Christ is not
By Mercy we are saved, and then we do willingly in thankfulness and never by force, do you see this?

 

[homwardbound]

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, andwith fire:

Proper exegesis requires one to understand who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said. So prove to me that the pronouns "you" refer to you.

You are kidding right, you don't see who is speaking, Okay then deny all you want. I ,pray for your blessing, happiness and prosperity in God, delivering you to God to be straightened out and me as well trusting God to straighten out me as well to any error I may have

 

[homwardbound]

I see that Christ shed His blood in His death and what that means for you, me and everyone else is for our sins to be washed away by the blood of Christ we must have access into Christ's death where that blood was shed and baptism is what gives access to His blood. Not faith only, not a sinner's prayer but baptism gives access into Christ's death.

Yep, Baptism agreed not water though, Spirit which apparently I am getting you don't see and are a man of works for salvation. not a man of faith that father gives the ones that believe and willingly get water Baptized as a good conscience between them and God, not between one and their Church

 

[apostolic862004]

So you are telling me that if Cornelius's house did not get water Baptized afterwards, that the Holy Ghost that already came on them at God's preaching to them through Peter, God would have taken away what God already gave?
I think not, yet it is good to be water Baptized, but not for washing away sins

Oh and the Israelites were saved passing trhrough the Red Sea and were not drowned in water as the Egyptians were as well as Noah and Sons,
Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! water Baptism killed them ant they did not live, and Israel rejoiced over God's diliverance and the world feared God as waht happened passed to all the rest of the world
1 Peter 3:13-22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

You think not, but it doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what God says. You guys kill me. You all want to say "It's good to get baptized" or " you should get baptized" but you claim it doesn't do anything. Then why "should" you do it? or what makes it "good" to do. If baptism is only a profession of your faith, you can do that with your mouth, or with the way you live. Why get baptized at all? What is happening is that you guys can't deny water baptism all together because its in the word to many times and too many people obeyed God and did it so you "have" to say something good about it. But you still deny that it's necessary. Well, deny all you want, you are calling Jesus a liar, not anybody else. He is the one that said is was necessary to get into the Kingdom of God.

 

[homwardbound]

I am not talking about mixing oil and water, but talking about HOW does one get into Christ's death where His shed blood is found? Water baptism.

Right here read listen to waht the Spirit of God says, lets see, not caring to argue, so if you want truth to access here it is

[h=1]Philippians 3 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.( and water Baptizers) [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

[apostolic862004]

So once one is born again, won't they do whatever God tells them, in Love? So where is the I have to or else as is what I read here?
Do you really think God to be tyrannical as human flesh is along with this world, grow in that grace Brother are you willing to see how deep God's love truly is?
Ephesians 3:16-18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

No. I wish that was the case but just because you are born again does not mean that you do whatever God tells you. It means you "SHOULD" do whatever God tells you. But we still have a fallen nature, and we still have our own will that we have to submit to God and we don't always do what we "SHOULD."

No, God is not a tyrannt. I know how deep his love is. His love is deep enough that he would make a way for me to be saved, yet he won't force me to do it. That is true love.

 

[2Thewaters]

Born again is the spirit in you as long as you submit and listen for him
the minute you take the wheel hestops talking and sits back until you drive off the Road

Demon possession CONTROLS your thoughts and action

Spirit abiding SUGGESTS and it is up to you to follow it

like the voice says

you could turn here
you could take flowers to mom
you could get up early so you wont be late
but he does not force you
if you dont do the suggestion he is quiet and you get no more suggestions because one thing is God is not a nag
if you dont want to hear him
he wont tell you

so each day say

Ok My Lord
I want to try again
p;ease talk to me today
I know yesterday I did not listen and messed up
please forgive me
talk again and help me to suppress my self and I will listen and do all your suggestions

and he says
ok
and immediately starts talking again

make sure
you always thank him for every thought!
thank him for every verse!
he doesnt just take over your mind

he gives you a suggestion
and if you say thank you
thank you please tell me more
then he will

he will never give you two or three things
that is force
he gives you one
and if you do it and say thanks he gives another
and if you do it aand say thanks he gives another

until
he gives you one you wont do that day then he shuts up
and you are driving your car again all day until you crash

and then you cry and say
sorry help me learn to listen and do
and he will say
ok and gives you a suggestion
remember to say THANK YOU AND TO DO IT!

that is the key

 

[2Thewaters]

so when you get baptised, then he will give you more suggestions...
you can do it at any spa or pool easily
It means you give your whole life to him right now forever
that is what it means
if you dont mean that dont get baptised it wont help you anyway.

 

[Joh-Anne]

Hi guys. I don't know any of you. I am not a Senior Member and I have no Rep Power. I only have a message I feel strongly led to share with you. I am just the obedient messenger.

Have either of you been baptised with water?

Were you led to do it by God, or was it just something your church told you that you have to do?

I was baptised with water as a baby in the Presbyterian Church. I am glad because I was dedicated to God at such an early age! I was baptised with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as an adult.

But, God led me to be baptised in a river in the bush (I am in South Africa) by a pastor I did not really know, about two years ago.

This is my message to you. I did it because God wanted it to happen to me on a date, time and place suitable to Him. He had a message for me. When I came up out of that water, my whole life's past flashed away and He said to me "DO NOT DIVORCE YOUR HUSBAND!" I became a new person and went home to my unsaved husband and we now lead a wonderful life together because, even though he is unsaved, God has a reason for me to stay married to him. He has plans maybe that I have not yet been shown. He is sanctified by me and I try to lead by example and still pray for his salvation every day.

Don't question the what, who, why or how! It is GOD. He is supposed to be the One present at your baptism. He is the what, who, why and how. He is the words uttered. Not the pastor speaking correctly or incorrectly. Or the correct or incorrect verse in the Bible translated. God will lead.

His servant
Joh-Anne

Oh, and I do feel that if you have accepted God into your life and follow Him, you will have eternal life - salvation. Everything else in between follows only in God's timing - not ours.

 

[Alligator]

I see that Christ shed His blood in His death and what that means for you, me and everyone else is for our sins to be washed away by the blood of Christ we must have access into Christ's death where that blood was shed and baptism is what gives access to His blood. Not faith only, not a sinner's prayer but baptism gives access into Christ's death.

Prove using scripture who the ones in Acts 2 that were being saved.

Nowhere does Acts 10 say the Gentiles were saved before they were water baptized. That idea rewrites many verses as Mk 16;16 and Acts 2:38 that put water baptism BEFORE salvation. So it was not possible the Gentiles were saved before they were water baptized else contradictions exists.

Go, Go Go on with your bad self full of Doctrine that has brought works as the way to be saved by getting water Baptized. you make a mockery of the cross of Christ and the free gift od new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ where we are made alive by Father in Spirit and truth
You are adding to the whole truth and causing work to take the place of Faith,
You show me your works that has caused your Faith
And i will show you God's faith that has caused my love for all, whether anyone agrees with me or not

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

You reject the gift when you make it a command. A command is not willingly done by the one that is commanded. You make my Father to be a tyrant and my Father, the Father of Christ is not
By Mercy we are saved, and then we do willingly in thankfulness and never by force, do you see this?

there is one thing you will never grasp, Or refuse to grasp, concerning baptism, or any other command of God. You think that simply following a command, such as being baptized, automatically means we are working for our salvation and we're depending on our works to save us. How foolish. Tell me something, how can obeying a command of God mean we are trying to earn salvation ? So what you and Atwood are really saying is don't obey God, just trust him. So you guys are the ones making a mockery out of Christ and his cross. Don't obey just trust.

it is downright comical to see on this forum, the hatred not only of baptism but water. I've seen many rather feeble attempts to try and make it Spirit baptism when there is nothing in the context to justify it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

there is one thing you will never grasp, Or refuse to grasp, concerning baptism, or any other command of God. You think that simply following a command, such as being baptized, automatically means we are working for our salvation and we're depending on our works to save us. How foolish. Tell me something, how can obeying a command of God mean we are trying to earn salvation ? So what you and Atwood are really saying is don't obey God, just trust him. So you guys are the ones making a mockery out of Christ and his cross. Don't obey just trust.

it is downright comical to see on this forum, the hatred not only of baptism but water. I've seen many rather feeble attempts to try and make it Spirit baptism when there is nothing in the context to justify it.

not sure what your argument with sea bass is, Have not been following it.

As for Atwood and the rest of us. We are not saying have faith alone, and do not do anything.

We are saying have faith in the promise of God (eternal life) and out of gratefulness for what he gave you (eternal life) learn to trust him in all areas, and do what he asks you to do. Like be baptised.

 

[mailmandan]

This does not explain how/why an atheist would repent. An atheist does not even believe in the existence of God, does not believe in a heaven of hell, therefore does not think he is lost and needs to repent and be saved. The bible can command repentance all it wants to, but as long as an atheist does not believe it he will never repent.

Once an atheist comes to believe in the existence of God, in heaven and hell, realizes he is lost and needs to repent and be saved, then he can choose to repent and believe the gospel. As long as an atheist does not even believe in the existence of God, in heaven or hell, does not realize he is lost and needs to be saved through faith in Christ, then he won't repent.

Here you say "An unbelieving person once convinced that God exists...can now repent

An atheist can "change their mind" and now believe that God exists, but that is not enough to save him. The new direction of this change of mind must include faith in Christ in order for him to be saved (Ephesians 2:8). So an unbelieving person once convicted that God exists can now choose to repent and believe the gospel. There is a difference between believing "mental assent" that God exists (even the demons believe that - James 2:19) and believing the gospel - trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16).

So now you are saying one must first believe in God before they can repent. But even though one believes God exists does not mean he will repent. The Jews certainly believed God exists but they did not see themselves as being lost, did not see Jesus as the Messiah therefore would not repent even though they believed God exists.

One must believe in God before they can repent and believe the gospel. It's true that there are people who believe that God exists but will not repent and believe the gospel. There are many professing Christians today who believe "mental assent" in Christ but their trust and reliance is in "water and works." That is not saving faith in Christ. That is faith in water and works and not Christ alone. We must trust exclusively in Christ for salvation in order to be saved. Unfortunately, most trust in works.

But a person will never repent until they first believe the gospel of Christ.

Repent and believe the gospel (Mark 1:15). Why do you reverse the order? Once a person repents "changes their mind" and believes the gospel/trusts in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation, why do they still need to repent in order to become saved? Paul said in Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. So those who believe the gospel are still lost and still need to repent in order to become saved? Is that what you are saying?

The Jews would never repent until they first believed the Jesus was the Messiah. Once they accepted Him as the Messiah then they could repent.

Sure, they must first believe that Jesus is the Messiah before they can repent and place their faith in Him for salvation.

Peter did not say repent for the remission of sins, but said be baptized for the remission of sins.

Again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. The church of Christ teaches that water baptism was not necessary for salvation under the old law, but is necessary for salvation under the new law. Under the new law, in Acts 2:38, we read - "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and under the old law, in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, we read - John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. I'm hearing the same message under the old law. So in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 (under the old law), was this baptism of repentance "FOR" (in order to obtain) the remission of sins or "FOR" (in reference to; in regards to) the remission of sins? In Matthew 3:11, we read: I baptize you with water "FOR" repentance. If translated "in order to obtain", the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water "FOR" (in order to obtain) repentance? or I baptize you with water "FOR" (in reference to - in regards to) repentance?

Remission of sins is equivalent to being saved, so:

Whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins (Acts 10:43). These Gentiles believed, received the Holy Spirit and the remission of sins (vs. 44-47) BEFORE they were water baptized (vs. 48). They received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE water baptism. Compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Acts 2:38----------baptized>>>>>>>>remission of sins

Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19--------Repent>>>>>>>>>baptism/parenthetical>>>>>remission of sins.

1 Pet 3:21---------baptism>>>>>>>>>saves

1 Peter 3:21------baptism saves/not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." You need to read it all.

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

The order of the verse, that cannot be changed or altered:
repentance comes BEFORE baptism and baptism comes BEFORE remission of sins.

You're simply trying to rewrite the verse to make it fit your bias instead of taking as it is.

You are trying to force the rest of scripture to conform to your bias doctrine of water salvation. Repentance and believing in Him comes BEFORE remission of sins (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18) and baptism comes AFTER remission of sins (Acts 10:48). The remission of sins is signified, yet not procured in the waters of baptism.

The singular or plural does not change or alter the verse either. All of you repent and let each one of you be baptized for remission of sins. The conjunction "and" ties repentance to baptism making them inseparable and making them both equally essential to salvation. The preposition eis "for" gives the purpose for baptism which is remission of sins.

Again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

No verse say repentance puts one into the death of Christ where one then has access to His shed blood. Yet Rom 6:4 says we are buried with him by baptism into death, NOT repented into His death. Water baptism is symbolic of Christ's death burial and resurrection, NOT repentance. So one is NOT buried in repentance, NOT raised up from repentance to walk in newness of life.

So repentance and remission of sins (Luke 24:47); repent and be converted so that your sins may be blotted out (Acts 3:19); ..repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) means still lost? When one truly repents the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ. Such a person is saved. Water baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, and being buried with Him by baptism into death is signified, yet not procured in water baptism. A symbol (water baptism) is not the reality (Spirit baptism), but the picture of the reality.

Col 2:11,12 says the body of sin is cut away by God when one is buried in baptism,

NOT when one repents.

Circumcision made without hands, "circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit," (see - Romans 2:29). Spirit baptism is the reality (made without hands) and water baptism is the picture of the reality.

Being in Christ is the same as being saved and Gal 3:27 says baptized into Christ,

NOT repented into Christ.

Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.. (1 Corinthians 12:13). Confusing the picture with the reality has caused a lot of confusion in your theology. In what sense are we water baptized "into Christ?" In the same sense that the Israelites were baptized "into Moses" (metaphorically) indicating their oneness, or solidarity, with him as their leader (1 Corinthians 10:2) just as through water baptism we indicate our oneness, or solidarity with Christ as our Savior. Now does 1 Corinthians 10:2 teach that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses? Absolutely not.

Being in the body is equivalent to being saved and 1 Cor 12;13 says baptized into one body

NOT repented into one body.

This is Spirit baptism, not water baptism. At what moment does this occur? Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, (repent and believe the gospel) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).

Acts 22:16 Saul was commanded to arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Saul was NOT told to wash away thy sins by repenting.

Paul uses this same phrase in Romans 10:13 to describe someone receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior:

“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And notice that nowhere in Romans 10 is water baptism even mentioned. In regards to Acts 22:16 it should be noted that the "calling" used in this passage is a aorist participle in the Greek, which means that its action (the action of "calling on the name of the Lord") precedes the action of the main verb in the sentence of "be baptized." In other words, a literal translation of the verse is, "Arise, get yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling on His name."

Thus, we get our sins washed away by calling on the name of Jesus Christ, not by water baptism. Once again, "water" baptism is a sign or symbol that follows the salvation of the believer, not the cause of it.

Acts 2:38---------repent+++++++++++be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.for remission of sins
Acts 3:19---------repent+++++++++++be converted>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sins blotted out.

Acts 2:38-----------repent>>>>>>baptized/parenthetical>>>>>>for remission of sins.
Acts 3:19----------repent>>>>>>be converted>>>>>>sins blotted out.
Mark 1:15---------repent>>>>>>believe the gospel>>>>>>saved.
Romans 1:16------gospel>>>>>>power of God unto salvation>>>>>>believes.
Acts 10:43---------believes>>>>>remission of sins.

Since there is just one way to be saved then both verses must say the same thing. One has not been converted, has not accepted the gospel until he has been baptized, Acts 2;41.

One accepts the gospel by believing/trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation. One gets baptized BECAUSE he has accepted the gospel and has been converted. You have it backwards.

Comparing Acts 2:42 with 44 one can see that the verb "believed" in verse 44 includes being baptized in of verse 41. So when Peter commanded the Gentiles to believe that belief included baptism as he commanded them to be water baptized. The command to be water baptized here and in Acts 2:38 make water baptism essential to salvation if for no other reason.

Believed does not include baptism. You don't baptize unbelievers in order to make them believers. Belief is not baptism and belief precedes baptism and we are saved through belief/faith (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 3:22-28; 4:5; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). It's just that simple. Not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT. If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then God would not make so many statements in which He promises salvation to those who simply BELIEVE. The gospel is hid to those who don't BELIEVE (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).

Also nothing in Acts 10 or 11 changes the order of verses like Acts 2:38 or Mk 16:16 which both have the order of baptism BEFORE salvation, not after.

Baptism in Acts 2:38 is parenthetical. Repentance is unto the remission of sins (Acts 3:19). In Mark 16:16, it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation, not the lack of baptism. The remission of sins/salvation is signified, yet not procured in water baptism. Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 do not change the order of events in Acts 10:43-48 or Acts 11:17,18 or Acts 15:8,9. Believing, receiving the Holy Spirit and the remission of sins comes BEFORE water baptism.

Eph 2:8--------faith>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21------baptism>>>>>>>>>saves

Faith saves and faith is not baptism.
Baptism-----not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Christ saves, not the mechanical act of water baptism.

Since there is just one way to be saved then NT faith includes baptism. Peter never said in Acts 15 the Gentiles were saved by faith only. He commanded them to be water baptized for a saving faith includes baptism and is dead without it.

No, faith is not baptism and faith precedes baptism and we are saved through faith. It's just that simple. When will you believe? In Acts 15:7, Peter said - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Peter said nothing about water baptism here. What word stands alone in verses 7 and 9 in connection with hear the word of the gospel and hearts purified by what? Baptism or FAITH? Believers do not get water baptized with a dead faith. The faith of believers is alive before, during and after water baptism. You are confused by what James means by "faith only." He means an empty profession of faith (James 2:14). What good is it if someone says he has faith but has no works. A bare profession of faith is not a living faith but a dead faith. Man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is confirmed by good works.

 

[Ukorin]

This is a long thread, so I haven't gone through every single post, so tell me if these points have been previously made.

The essentials of salvation must be present in every situation where salvation occurs in Scripture,
otherwise it is not an ESSENTIAL.

The tests for this are done by going through the groups of those who have been saved, and comparing them. The group's are:
1. The pre-Abrahamic Covenant saints
2. The Abrahamic Covenant saints
3. The Mosaic Covenant saints
4. The Jewish New Covenant saints
5. The Gentile New Covenant saints
6. The "thief on the cross" type saints (deathbed saints)

God's grace through faith is the single common thread through them all.
It is the essential.

Anything else is simply and expression of faith, which comes through maturity in Christ. But even a 'babe in Christ' is still IN CHRIST.