BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[Dan_473]

God bless you too. You love Yeshua, Jesus, then you will know exactly what to do. You really do not need to ask others, just keep hearing His Word, as I believe you do.

Oh, yes, and thank you... And I think it's good to get knowledge from other people about how they think... Hey, grace and peace to you!

 

[KohenMatt]

Cool... Thanks for the answer! How did you come to that conclusion? Could you lift more than one out on the sabbath? Grace to you!

The question to ask is what God's heart would be in that situation? If someone or something is in need, does God care more about helping that person, or about the rules of that day? Our God is a God of spirit and truth, so His words and His commandments should be interpreted the same way.

 

[2Thewaters]

that goes against the Bible

2Pe_1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[KohenMatt]

Let my try to clarify our position because I don't think you understand it.

You are right we are not under law "if" we are under Grace.

And you are right that works of the law do not save us.

we don't bring up the law because we think it saves. Jesus is the only one that saves us. So why then do we talk so much about the law?

Its simple, Jesus saves me from sin, Sin is breaking the law. If I am saved from sin/breaking the law then I will be keeping the law. not to be saved that is impossible, but because I am saved.

If you try to walk in love then you are trying to keep the law.

Paul showed what love one another was:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Notice that love one another fulfills the law and then Paul shows that the commandments are in Fact a description of the standard of love.

To love one another fulfills all 10 commandments. Even though Paul only quotes some of the last six he also include the first four for love thy neighbour because it is impossible to love one another if we do not love God.

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

And John continues:

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

So the love of God is to keep his commandments and this through Faith.

Jesus is the only way to this love, it is the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.

Rom_5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Jesus is love:

1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

The law is fulfilled in love as we have seen.

Thus the only way to keep the law is to have Faith in Jesus and His love shed in our hearts by the Holy Spirit through the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to gotime again.

 

[2Thewaters]

1Th_2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Just read it believe it do it and pray for grace to do it right.

not doing something God told us to do is sin.

 

[2Thewaters]

If we speak the words the father gives us we don't need reputation

even a donkey can do it

and boy, you better listen to the donkey .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am pretty sure that I have NEVER DEMANDED that anyone follow it.

So when you say, We MUST follow the law. Your not demanding everyone follow it?

Sounds alot like you are demanding EVERYONE follow it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Pretty generous with your accusations here aren't you?

Yeah I guess your right. Much like the ten commands just give us a GLIMPSE of all the sin we can commit. I just gave a GLIMPSE of what those caught up in legalism do

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This accusation keeps coming up against you, me and other brethren in this thread.

It is irronic the same accusers want others to do exactly as they say they know, not giving any credance to the scriptural sources of what we have to share with the brethren.

The questions go round and round. When someone thinks one is forgotten, they ask again, not realizing how desperate they sound.

The one that always recurs is if we observe the law, we are under the law. Sorry, that has been addressed also, time and time again.

I believe these detractors wish to convert to the Way of believing we know, otherwise they would not keep pounding on cold iron.

to which to same old argument is refuted with the same old response.

We are not telling people if they do not obey they will not be saved, or lose salvation.

Nor are we telling everyone they MUST or are REQUIRED to keep the law. (meaning it IS a prerequisite for salvation)

Thats what makes it legalism.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The question to ask is what God's heart would be in that situation? If someone or something is in need, does God care more about helping that person, or about the rules of that day? Our God is a God of spirit and truth, so His words and His commandments should be interpreted the same way.

thats why they are not RULES, but guidelines, And general guidelines at that.

 

[chubbena]

I am pretty sure that I have NEVER DEMANDED that anyone follow it.

So why do you even mention the Law? You are as despicable as that guy who said:
"Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn" and "it pleased the LORD for the sake of his righteousness to make his law great and glorious."
Why don't you just talk about the law of love?

 

[crossnote]

You don't deny it, you are above it? That's what Richard Nixon said.

I don't deny the law exists but I also don't deny that we have DIED to it.

Romans 7:4, 6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[KohenMatt]

thats why they are not RULES, but guidelines, And general guidelines at that.

All semantics aside, these rules, or guidelines, or commands, or laws, or instructions, or teachings, etc. should be kept by Christians today, in Spirit AND in truth. Repairing someone's house when they are in need doesn't break the Sabbath commands.

Do them through with God's Spirit in mind, but do them in truth as God wrote them down. The 2 don't contradict each other.

 

[crossnote]

That sounds good to me... It's the heart... Since the heart will vary with each person, how the sabbath is kept will vary, too... I mean, I think it would work that way...Grace and peace to you!

It's the heart alright...it's the heart that's desperately evil.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All semantics aside, these rules, or guidelines, or commands, or laws, or instructions, or teachings, etc. should be kept by Christians today, in Spirit AND in truth. Repairing someone's house when they are in need doesn't break the Sabbath commands.

Do them through with God's Spirit in mind, but do them in truth as God wrote them down. The 2 don't contradict each other.

which goes to prove a point, You do not obey the letter, You obey the spirit.

The leter can only kill. and can not cause is to obey, The spirit (love) would never break the letter. thus does not need the letter.

 

[Zinzerio]

the law is good righteous and good the law is holy, something holy is something pure. how do i know because the bible tells me so.


++++++++++++27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.



Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy,


22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.…

21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ,
Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, righteous and good amen

 

[haz]

So a legalist should come out from under the Law? What do you mean by that? No longer required to obey?

We consistently see on forums that Legalists are under the law as they always preach that ones righteousness is determined by works of the law.

Consider this quote below from your fellow legalist, gotime.

Only those who "doeth" righteousness are righteous.


1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin...


Unrighteousness = sin
righteousness = not sin.


Sin = breaking the law
not sin = keeping the law.


To do righteousness is to keep the law.

Rom 4:5 tells us that our faith is counted for righteousness. Christians believe on Jesus, thus our faith is counted for righteousness. This gospel of Christ contradicts the legalists claim that we must be under the law proving righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the law is good righteous and good the law is holy, something holy is something pure. how do i know because the bible tells me so.


++++++++++++27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.



Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy,


22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.…

21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ,
Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy,


righteous and good.

It is Holy, It is good. It is perfect.

It shuts everyone's mouth, whether jew or gentile. and proves "ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD)

Of course it does not do that here, As we see. Some still do not think it does that, they think they can still follow it.

but when they stand in front of God. They will have no excuse. Their mouths will be shut, because the law proved they could not live the just requirement required by God.

then again, That was its intended purpose Not to force us or show us how to show love in every circumstance of life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We consistently see on forums that Legalists are under the law as they always preach that ones righteousness is determined by works of the law.

Consider this quote below from your fellow legalist, gotime.



Rom 4:5 tells us that our faith is counted for righteousness. Christians believe on Jesus, thus our faith is counted for righteousness. This gospel of Christ contradicts the legalists claim that we must be under the law proving righteousness.

which proves they do not understand the law. or why it was given.

The law does not prove righteousness, It proves how unrighteous we are.

 

[KohenMatt]

which goes to prove a point, You do not obey the letter, You obey the spirit.

The leter can only kill. and can not cause is to obey, The spirit (love) would never break the letter. thus does not need the letter.

I follow both. God's Spirit does not contradict God's written Word.