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E
Blessed are they who do his commands (all of them not just ten)
and who are they who obey the commands of God? Those saved by grace in faith through him. Those who are not saved, can not obey his commands, Even if they APPEAR to be obeying his command, they are not. because they are done in the flesh. As God says, Our works are as filthy rags.
Your sounding a little works oriented here. Maybe you need to explain yourself?
and who are they who obey the commands of God? Those saved by grace in faith through him. Those who are not saved, can not obey his commands, Even if they APPEAR to be obeying his command, they are not. because they are done in the flesh. As God says, Our works are as filthy rags.
Your sounding a little works oriented here. Maybe you need to explain yourself?
E
The lawbreakers will be part of the false one world huge govermnet supported false religion
and the small remnant who keep the commandments will be attacked by the whole world
guess who wins?
and the small remnant who keep the commandments will be attacked by the whole world
guess who wins?
We still deserve eternal damnation.
We are saved by grace, Not works. So we will never WIN anything, winning means you EARNED something.
Your decieved if you think you can earn salvation.
And NO ONE here is claiming you should disobey God. Your like the rest. never listenign to what people say, yet assume you know..
L
Blessed are they who do his commands (all of them not just ten)
and who are they who obey the commands of God? Those saved by grace in faith through him. Those who are not saved, can not obey his commands, Even if they APPEAR to be obeying his command, they are not. because they are done in the flesh. As God says, Our works are as filthy rags.
Your sounding a little works oriented here. Maybe you need to explain yourself?
and who are they who obey the commands of God? Those saved by grace in faith through him.
Those who are not saved, can not obey his commands, Even if they APPEAR to be obeying his command, they are not. because they are done in the flesh. As God says, Our works are as filthy rags.Your sounding a little works oriented here. Maybe you need to explain yourself?
Would it be possible for you to get your head around that you are right on, and we are right, also? You tell us how to be saved, and what doesn't work for salvation. You tell us about obeying law legalistically, and that we are told not to. Every poster I have read agrees with you, you explain it well. Now that is done and settled, that part is over.
So we get up in the morning, and take our prayers to the Lord, we come out completely clean from any sin, a brand new person. And now is when we part company. You say that it is up to God in you to take over for the rest of the day, and we say we agree, but we need to cooperate by reading law and doing what we can. Then, we know that tomorrow we need our morning prayers and to be cleansed again.
So we get up in the morning, and take our prayers to the Lord, we come out completely clean from any sin, a brand new person. And now is when we part company. You say that it is up to God in you to take over for the rest of the day, and we say we agree, but we need to cooperate by reading law and doing what we can. Then, we know that tomorrow we need our morning prayers and to be cleansed again.
E
no sis. When you walk away, If you look to the law to lead you to a moral day, You will fail. It can not tell you how to be moral.
You want to obey the law and ALL of Gods commands? Look to who you can serve, How you can serve them. WHat God wants you to do that will glorify him whether at work, home or play. When you start to think of anything which would cause you to think of self over ANYONE else. You look to the spirit. and change your thinking.
You do this. You will not break the law. You will be a moral person who obeys the commands of God.
You want to obey the law and ALL of Gods commands? Look to who you can serve, How you can serve them. WHat God wants you to do that will glorify him whether at work, home or play. When you start to think of anything which would cause you to think of self over ANYONE else. You look to the spirit. and change your thinking.
You do this. You will not break the law. You will be a moral person who obeys the commands of God.
When the law was written by God (Christ was there) and the Holy Spirit is of God, then the law the Holy Spirit leads us to is the law scripture leads us to. Couldn't it be that ones works in tandem with the other? Both need to be used? God gave us the Holy Spirit, but God also gave us an intellect. We have in us both the knowledge of good and evil, we are born with that knowledge. We are to fill our intellect with scripture, that is good not bad.
I think that if we obey law with only our intellect we are not obeying law. If we disregard scripture, we are on shaky grounds. It takes both the HS and scripture.
I think that if we obey law with only our intellect we are not obeying law. If we disregard scripture, we are on shaky grounds. It takes both the HS and scripture.
E
You can not obey the law. So why are you even trying?
You obey the law by fulfilling the law of love. Not by saying, Ok. Do not covet. so I will not covet today (your already in trouble because they thought of coveting is already in your head. which may lead to temptation. as paul said, The law comes, temptation leads to sin, and I die.
why do you need to even think of not coveting if your focused on serving others? If the thought is not in your head, You will not sin. you will not break the law. This is what paul said.
You obey the law by fulfilling the law of love. Not by saying, Ok. Do not covet. so I will not covet today (your already in trouble because they thought of coveting is already in your head. which may lead to temptation. as paul said, The law comes, temptation leads to sin, and I die.
why do you need to even think of not coveting if your focused on serving others? If the thought is not in your head, You will not sin. you will not break the law. This is what paul said.
I just can't think like you do, I don't understand it when we are both bible students and listen to the Lord.
I hear the Lord telling me to be perfect, and also telling me that I cannot be. I must listen to both. That would say to me that even though I'll never make it to perfection, that should not stop me from putting all my faith in the Lord and follow Him the best I can.
Scripture tells me all the law is based on love. It tells me one result of love is not to covet. Scripture doesn't tell me to be sure not to hear the "do not covet" because it is the result of love. The supreme, top law is to love the Lord and others. That doesn't mean I am to ignore all the other minor laws explaining that law. God seems to think I can use all the help He offers me.
I hear the Lord telling me to be perfect, and also telling me that I cannot be. I must listen to both. That would say to me that even though I'll never make it to perfection, that should not stop me from putting all my faith in the Lord and follow Him the best I can.
Scripture tells me all the law is based on love. It tells me one result of love is not to covet. Scripture doesn't tell me to be sure not to hear the "do not covet" because it is the result of love. The supreme, top law is to love the Lord and others. That doesn't mean I am to ignore all the other minor laws explaining that law. God seems to think I can use all the help He offers me.
H
Consider your quote below where you describe what it is to be righteous.
Here we see that you are, by implication, saying that our faith is not counted for righteousness because works of the law are necessary to do righteousness.
However we see in scripture that in Christ, a Christian's faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5), and that we're holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14) and complete (Col 2:10). This contradicts your description of a Christian being crippled if they do not obey the law.
Clearly you see that nobody is righteous unless they obey the law of sin and death.
And as the law requires perfect obedience, then we see that without perfect obedience to the law you seem to be claiming we're unrighteous.
However, there seems to be variations offered by some legalists on what the law requires, in spite of the fact that there are no scriptures to back up such doctrines claiming that near enough is good enough under the law.
For example, Laodicea described how what level of obedience to the law is expected of us by God, is dependent on what "light" we are given. Do you agree with Laodicea on this?
So to help me understand your doctrine, are you suggesting that any SDA who obeys the law half the time is half righteous? Or is their righteousness dependent on what God expects as a minimum standard of obedience to the law given the amount of "light" they have received?
Here we see that you are, by implication, saying that our faith is not counted for righteousness because works of the law are necessary to do righteousness.
However we see in scripture that in Christ, a Christian's faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5), and that we're holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14) and complete (Col 2:10). This contradicts your description of a Christian being crippled if they do not obey the law.
Clearly you see that nobody is righteous unless they obey the law of sin and death.
And as the law requires perfect obedience, then we see that without perfect obedience to the law you seem to be claiming we're unrighteous.
However, there seems to be variations offered by some legalists on what the law requires, in spite of the fact that there are no scriptures to back up such doctrines claiming that near enough is good enough under the law.
For example, Laodicea described how what level of obedience to the law is expected of us by God, is dependent on what "light" we are given. Do you agree with Laodicea on this?
So to help me understand your doctrine, are you suggesting that any SDA who obeys the law half the time is half righteous? Or is their righteousness dependent on what God expects as a minimum standard of obedience to the law given the amount of "light" they have received?
K
Look, attempting to keep law makes the cross of no effect. You are denying the cross by attempting to keep law. You cannot keep law. I know this because Christ died on the cross for those who were bound by law. If God had to become a man to set us free from then why should we attempt in our own strength to keep it. Not even Moses could keep the law and He was the one which law was given through. Moses needed the cross as much as I do.
P
okay...well, my "yes, and no" were in answer to the two questions Matt asked.
i get the feeling that when some of us read things like this (and other passages), we see a threat and not a Promise.
see what Peter is saying here?
1b To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; (in the knowledge of the Law? no. )
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. (do we already possess everything we need for life and godliness? through the knowledge [through faith in] of Whom?)
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
(we don't escape the corruption that is in the world by lust through the Law, but by the Promise.)
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
(the reason being we ARE partakers of the divine nature by the Promise...the Lord Jesus.)
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. (he who lacks these qualities has not forgotten the Law, but the Gospel.)
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
(you don't have to go out and secure it for yourself...it will be abundantly supplied to you.)
if you believe your last statement, you don't understand Romans 7
all the commands of the New Testament epistles are horizontal---how we are to behave with one another,
because the vertical (our relationship to God) has been forever settled by the Lord Jesus!
y'know...It is finished.
i suppose we need to either decide or figure out which Covenant we are under.
it can't be both the Mosaic and the New...
i get the feeling that when some of us read things like this (and other passages), we see a threat and not a Promise.
see what Peter is saying here?
1b To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; (in the knowledge of the Law? no.
)3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. (do we already possess everything we need for life and godliness? through the knowledge [through faith in] of Whom?)
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
(we don't escape the corruption that is in the world by lust through the Law, but by the Promise.)
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
(the reason being we ARE partakers of the divine nature by the Promise...the Lord Jesus.)
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. (he who lacks these qualities has not forgotten the Law, but the Gospel.)
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
(you don't have to go out and secure it for yourself...it will be abundantly supplied to you.)
if you believe your last statement, you don't understand Romans 7
all the commands of the New Testament epistles are horizontal---how we are to behave with one another,
because the vertical (our relationship to God) has been forever settled by the Lord Jesus!
y'know...It is finished.
i suppose we need to either decide or figure out which Covenant we are under.
it can't be both the Mosaic and the New...
But then again, why would scripture tell me not to covet if my putting on Christ and focusing on love could be relied on to keep me from ever coveting? Evidently, God didn't think I was that perfect but needed more help. I take all the help I can get, I can use it all and frankly, still need more. Perhaps I am not as perfect as you.