Mormons / Latter Day Saints

[johnluke]

Originally posted by VCO:
Galatians 1:8-9 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

I prefer to err on the side of love your neighbor as yourself, rather than mocking and then proclaiming anathema. If you proclaim anathema you better know that your gospel is the original gospel preached by Jesus Christ and his apostles.

VCO, if we were to study all the scriptures in the Bible about who the original biblical Jesus is, you would deny more than 1/2 of them because of your training from a particular point of view. Any scripture from the Bible that does not fit your view will be rejected, even though it comes from the Bible. So don't be too fast on the draw to be calling people out that do not believe just like you do. They could read you the same scripture. Mormon Christians or any other Bibllical loving Christians.

 

[johnluke]

Originally posted by Kerry:
Look people. I think I have said this before. The Mormon church is controlled by 3 or 4 families. They are extremely wealthy and have political pull because of their money. Some sources say that they sold the land to build Las Vegas to the mob controlled businessmen.

How many Mormons have been to the temple. Mormons hit like if you have been invited.

This would be good information, but I can't go to my Mormon friend and say, I know that 3 or 4 families control the State of Utah, but I don't know their names. They are so wealthy that I know they have political pull, but I'm not sure what legislation they have railroaded through. I know that they sold land to the Las Vegas mob, because some sources I can't get my hands on said so.

So would you please follow up on this post and give some details, it sounds interesting. I would like to show my friend.

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by, "Mormons hit like if you have been invited". Would you explain that. Thanks

 

[Flamingspirit]

John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

2 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2 Corinthians 13:2 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I warned those who sinned before and all the others, and I warn them now while absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come again I will not spare them—

Galatians 5:19-21 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And we exhort you, brothers: warn those who are irresponsible, comfort the discouraged, help the weak, be patient with everyone.

1 Corinthians 11:1 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

1 Timothy 1:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Corinthians 16:22 (ASV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] If any man loveth not the Lord, let him be anathema. Maranatha.

Galatians 1:8-9 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

Those commandments being love God, and your neighbor as yourself. "Thou shalt not" is ADDED because we broke the love commandments.

 

[VCO]

I prefer to err on the side of love your neighbor as yourself, rather than mocking and then proclaiming anathema. If you proclaim anathema you better know that your gospel is the original gospel preached by Jesus Christ and his apostles.

VCO, if we were to study all the scriptures in the Bible about who the original biblical Jesus is, you would deny more than 1/2 of them because of your training from a particular point of view. Any scripture from the Bible that does not fit your view will be rejected, even though it comes from the Bible. So don't be too fast on the draw to be calling people out that do not believe just like you do. They could read you the same scripture. Mormon Christians or any other Bibllical loving Christians.

I deny NONE of them, and I do KNOW HIM personally in my heart. Perhaps the problem is that you misinterpret half of them.

Any interpretation that cannot withstand the test of Scripture, is a false interpretation. Mormons openly admit they teach a different Jesus than the rest of the Churches. Their late Prophet even said so from the pulpit, and that certainly makes them a psuedo-Christian cult. Therefore the Mormons are not Christians, nor are the Jehovah Witness, nor are followers of Christian Science, nor any other psuedo-Christian cult. If you want to learn why, may I suggest Dr. Walter Martin's book "Kingdom of the CULTS".

 

[johnluke]

Originally posted by VCO:
I deny NONE of them, and I do KNOW HIM personally in my heart. Perhaps the problem is that you misinterpret half of them.

Any interpretation that cannot withstand the test of Scripture, is a false interpretation. Mormons openly admit they teach a different Jesus than the rest of the Churches. Their late Prophet even said so from the pulpit, and that certainly makes them a psuedo-Christian cult. Therefore the Mormons are not Christians, nor are the Jehovah Witness, nor are followers of Christian Science, nor any other psuedo-Christian cult. If you want to learn why, may I suggest Dr. Walter Martin's book "Kingdom of the CULTS".

Could you explain what you mean, when you say: "any interpretation that cannot withstand the test of Scripture is a false interpretation." Because I believe you are right, but I would like to know what the "test of Scripture" means to you.

 

[VCO]

Could you explain what you mean, when you say: "any interpretation that cannot withstand the test of Scripture is a false interpretation." Because I believe you are right, but I would like to know what the "test of Scripture" means to you.

God does not contradict Himself and all Scripture was inspired by GOD.

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

 

[maxwel]

Maxwell, this is a Christian chat room. The hypothesis has been observed daily by myself as I communicate with other Christians in this forum. Now I agree, I have not seen 1000 posters in the chatroom, but certainly there are enough that a clear conclusion can be drawn from a study made of my hypothesis.

So go to any thread in this "bible discussion forum" and you will be rather dismayed at the level of disunity that thrives in just this little chat room. I will tell you that is because we are discussing issues on the second and third and maybe even other levels of a particular issue and this type of discussion opens us up to a close scrutiny of what we really believe beyond the cursory level. Sometimes it is ugly. So pick any one and you can see what I am talking about.

Now, how do Mormons fit into this discussion. That's what this thread is about. Mormons are quite a bit more radical than most Chirstians, I admit, but they suggest that the "Christian church" fell away from the real biblical Jesus starting around 110 AD about the time the original apostles were killed by the world. When the Bishops took over the leadership, the first few generations, who were taught by the apostles themselves stayed pretty close to the original, but soon power and glory and money won the day and the leadership of the church went with the world, especially about the time of Constantine,
310 AD. At Nicea the culmination of this apostacy took an abrupt step forward when the Bishops bowed down to Constantine and decided that the Nicean creed was more valuable than the Bible in describing the nature of God and his Son and the Holy Spirit. They did it for the sake of unity and if they didn't vote yes, they lost their Bishopbric and all their power and money and prestige. They could not refuse even for the sake of Christ, who got mangled in the creed.

To them, it has all been pretty much downhill since then. They look at things differenty than we do for the most part, but there Christology is pretty founded in the Bible. Go sit with one that is steeped in their apologetics, not an 18 year old missionary, all they do is teach and bear testimony and baptize. I know, I can spin them around easily. But find a Mormon scholar and you will find that their biblical arguments are pretty convincing. Even the radical ones. It is a very interesting discussion. I can at least see how they come to a conclusion about what they believe as wrong as I believe some are.

So do the test on the forum.

You missed my entire point.


Yes there IS disunity among Christians on many issues.

There is NOT disunity among ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN regarding the PERSON OF CHRIST.


MORMONS do not even believe in the same Christ as orthodox christians.
A mormon in this thread said that Christians all disagree on this.
I simply stated that was incorrect.

Othodox Christians DO agree on basic fundamentals, such as the PERSON OF CHRIST
("who" he is, and "what" he is).


MORMONISM does not agree with orthodox christianity EVEN on the most basic fundamentals.


If ANYONE wants to debate these simple premises... all you have to do is look up the "statement of faith" of each major denomination. Simple. Probably take one afternoon. And lots of people have done it before. It's not a mystery.
We don't have to guess. WE KNOW what all major denominations believe.

 

[VCO]

You missed my entire point.


Yes there IS disunity among Christians on many issues.

There is NOT disunity among ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN regarding the PERSON OF CHRIST.


MORMONS do not even believe in the same Christ as orthodox christians.
A mormon in this thread said that Christians all disagree on this.
I simply stated that was incorrect.

Othodox Christians DO agree on basic fundamentals, such as the PERSON OF CHRIST
("who" he is, and "what" he is).


MORMONISM does not agree with orthodox christianity EVEN on the most basic fundamentals.


If ANYONE wants to debate these simple premises... all you have to do is look up the "statement of faith" of each major denomination. Simple. Probably take one afternoon. And lots of people have done it before. It's not a mystery.
We don't have to guess. WE KNOW what all major denominations believe.

Isn't it amazing how most people who deny the Deity of Christ, do not like to tell us what religious organization they are affiliated with. Perhaps they know that if they tell us, all credibility is lost.

 

[posthuman]

Godly love is loving your neighbor as yourself. Why make it complicated.

when i find myself wandering into sin, i separate myself from it. don't you?

i love myself best not by indulgence but by laying down my life and setting it aside for the sake of God. by repenting from evil and not associating myself with wickedness.
i should love others as Christ loves me, and Jesus gave me a Spirit that teaches me to repent, to destroy lies and acknowledge the Truth in all my ways.

 

[VCO]

when i find myself wandering into sin, i separate myself from it. don't you?

i love myself best not by indulgence but by laying down my life and setting it aside for the sake of God. by repenting from evil and not associating myself with wickedness.
i should love others as Christ loves me, and Jesus gave me a Spirit that teaches me to repent, to destroy lies and acknowledge the Truth in all my ways.

AMEN! The Truth in a nut shell.

 

[Flamingspirit]

when i find myself wandering into sin, i separate myself from it. don't you?

i love myself best not by indulgence but by laying down my life and setting it aside for the sake of God. by repenting from evil and not associating myself with wickedness.
i should love others as Christ loves me, and Jesus gave me a Spirit that teaches me to repent, to destroy lies and acknowledge the Truth in all my ways.

We need to understand what sin is first. What are Mormons doing that is so sinful? 6000 years later and we still do not understand.

To build upon what we know is destroyed is real sin. People starving and homeless in the streets is the real sin. Not going to church on Sunday or eating pork.

Again love is not complicated. It covers sins just as surely as one covers their wife or husbands imperfections.

We know these things. We need to apply them.

 

[VCO]

We need to understand what sin is first. What are Mormons doing that is so sinful? 6000 years later and we still do not understand.

To build upon what we know is destroyed is real sin. People starving and homeless in the streets is the real sin. Not going to church on Sunday or eating pork.

Again love is not complicated. It covers sins just as surely as one covers their wife or husbands imperfections.

We know these things. We need to apply them.

YOU have either got to kidding me, or you know almost NOTHING about what they teach and believe.

These verses describes who and what they really are:

Matthew 24:24-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you beforehand.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Timothy, my son, I am giving you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you may strongly engage in battle,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] having faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and have suffered the shipwreck of their faith.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 3:5-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men who are corrupt in mind, worthless in regard to the faith.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But they will not make further progress, for their lack of understanding will be clear to all, as theirs was also.

Galatians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—


Galatians 1:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, I now say again: If anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

Jude 1:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Flamingspirit]

YOU have either got to kidding me, or you know almost NOTHING about what they teach and believe.

These verses describes who and what they really are:

Matthew 24:24-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you beforehand.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Timothy, my son, I am giving you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you may strongly engage in battle,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] having faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and have suffered the shipwreck of their faith.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 3:5-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men who are corrupt in mind, worthless in regard to the faith.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But they will not make further progress, for their lack of understanding will be clear to all, as theirs was also.

Galatians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—


Galatians 1:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, I now say again: If anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

Jude 1:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lol. Those are a lot of verses calling be evil. Does getting rid of homelessness and starvation offend and anger you?

Galatians 2:17-19

17*But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18*For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19*For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Now in those verses you quoted, did you catch what Satan's purpose was? To teach what NOT to do!

 

[daniel606]

From post 3 dcontroversal
Nothing (saintly) about them..the god makers that is......!</font>

<br>
<br>
You may not think any Mormon is saintly, but if you are caught in a bad situation, the Mormon people would be at the top of any list to help you out. They help people all over the world and at home with billions of dollars in aid and comfort through their tithes and offerings. <br>
<br>
I am a Mormon and I went with another Christian to see the God Makers. Here was my conclusion: 1/3 of what was said is fairly true or partially true. 1/3 was false or partially false. 1/3 was so off the wall, I almost laughed out loud, it was so silly.<br>
<br>
After I viewed the movie I went to the minister whose church was showing the movie and offered him a donation. He said thanks and then I told him to keep up the good work. He said he would with a smile. Then I told him I was a Mormon and that for every 1 person that he helped leave the Mormon church, 10 were joining the church because of this movie. He was pretty upset that I would say such a thing and he wanted me to take back the donation, but I told him to keep it and he did.<br>
<br>
Here's how it works: Good Christian people see this movie and are so upset that their good Mormon neighbor is such an evil and designing person that they cn't stand it any longer and eventially they have to ask if their neighbor if this is the truth. Then the Mormon neighbor gets a chance to tell them what the truth really is over many conversations and a good percentage of those good Christians end up joining the Mormon church. <br>
<br>
If they had never seen the movie, they would have never been troubled and they may never have asked questions.<br>
<br>
So create all the evil movies you wish, it only serves to be a great missionary tool for the Mormon church, because many people recognize the truth when it is set before them.

 

[johnluke]

You missed my entire point.

Originally posted by maxwel:
Yes there IS disunity among Christians on many issues.

There is NOT disunity among ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN regarding the PERSON OF CHRIST.

I did not miss your entire point. Your point is that there is some disunity about some doctrines, but the fundamental doctrines there is unity amoung the orthodox Christians.

I said that this may be true, only on the first level, which is the statement level or the declaration level. My proof of this is this very Christian chat room. I would think that most here are orthodox, but most do not agree with each other on the person of Christ or any other doctrine. I said some times it can get ugly and it does.

I then said, go to the second level and you will see sharp division among the orthodox. Go to the third level and it is very difficult to find concensus.

The second level is this: OK, you have stated that you believe in the Holy Trinity, now explain how it works. I believe that the most fundamental doctrine of the church should be able to be explained with a reasonable amount of understanding of the congregation.

The third level is this: Now that we know how it works, explain how the Son is eternally begotten of the Father, especially since God the Father is the only unbegotten. There are many third level questions that clearify how Jesus became divine that are interesting to discuss, but can lead to strenuous debate.

So on the surface all seems to be love and unity, but under the surface, there is much turbulance. Again that is why there are so many hundreds of Christian churches.

Resond to my idea of second and third levels please and thank you.

 

[VCO]

<br>
<br>
You may not think any Mormon is saintly, but if you are caught in a bad situation, the Mormon people would be at the top of any list to help you out. They help people all over the world and at home with billions of dollars in aid and comfort through their tithes and offerings. <br>
<br>
I am a Mormon and I went with another Christian to see the God Makers. Here was my conclusion: 1/3 of what was said is fairly true or partially true. 1/3 was false or partially false. 1/3 was so off the wall, I almost laughed out loud, it was so silly.<br>
<br>
After I viewed the movie I went to the minister whose church was showing the movie and offered him a donation. He said thanks and then I told him to keep up the good work. He said he would with a smile. Then I told him I was a Mormon and that for every 1 person that he helped leave the Mormon church, 10 were joining the church because of this movie. He was pretty upset that I would say such a thing and he wanted me to take back the donation, but I told him to keep it and he did.<br>
<br>
Here's how it works: Good Christian people see this movie and are so upset that their good Mormon neighbor is such an evil and designing person that they cn't stand it any longer and eventially they have to ask if their neighbor if this is the truth. Then the Mormon neighbor gets a chance to tell them what the truth really is over many conversations and a good percentage of those good Christians end up joining the Mormon church. <br>
<br>
If they had never seen the movie, they would have never been troubled and they may never have asked questions.<br>
<br>
So create all the evil movies you wish, it only serves to be a great missionary tool for the Mormon church, because many people recognize the truth when it is set before them.

><>t<><

I respect the fact that you openly admit you are Mormon. Just so we understand each other. I absolutely believe you follow false prophets and a false gospel, as well as a false Jesus Christ. So why are you here on a Christian site that required you to say you agreed with the main Christian Doctrines. Isn't that lying to get in, a sin?

Before you leave I do have a purely Mormon Question for you.

In the Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants book, Section 132:38-39, assuming you have the same edition that I got this from, it says:

"38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me. 39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord."


Now the online version does not have footnotes, but the hard back version does.

Look below that verse 39 and you will find the a footnote referring you to Jacob 2:24, in the book of Mormon.

"Jacob 2:24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord."

Sounds to me like someone wrote into the Doctrines and Covenants book a false justification for polygamy, even though they KNEW that Jacob 2:24 called it abominable.

So what else did they edit or change, getting the book ready for mass printing.

 

[johnluke]

See post #56 from VCO
I respect the fact that you openly admit you are Mormon. Just so we understand each other. I absolutely believe you follow false prophets and a false gospel, as well as a false Jesus Christ. So why are you here on a Christian site that required you to say you agreed with the main Christian Doctrines. Isn't that lying to get in, a sin?

Before you leave I do have a purely Mormon Question for you.

In the Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants book, Section 132:38-39, assuming you have the same edition that I got this from, it says:

"38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me. 39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord."


Now the online version does not have footnotes, but the hard back version does.

Look below that verse 39 and you will find the a footnote referring you to Jacob 2:24, in the book of Mormon.

"Jacob 2:24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord."

Sounds to me like someone wrote into the Doctrines and Covenants book a false justification for polygamy, even though they KNEW that Jacob 2:24 called it abominable.

So what else did they edit or change, getting the book ready for mass printing.

For your information, I believe all the main Christian beliefs. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Divine Savior, who shed his blood on the cross so that my sins can be forgiven. I believe he was resurrected and stands by the right hand of God in the heavens today, awaiting his second coming. I believe other things about Jesus Christ that you and I will not agree about, but just because I don't agree with you on all points, doesn't eliminate my love for Jesus Christ and my devotion to him and his blood covering me too. I claim my knowledge of Jesus comes right out of the Bible, just like yours. I also believe in grace. I believe in the Bible, but I also believe in other
Christ-centered books too, complimentary to the Bible. Second and third witnesses of Jesus Christ, that makes for a much firmer foundation on which to pledge my life and being to the building up of the Kingdom of God.

Thank you for the cordial welcome, but I would not give up my day job to try out for an ambassador of Christ. An attitude of mockery and haughtiness are certainly not high on the list of attributes Jesus is looking for.

I will answer your question tomorrow, when I have more time. See you then.

 

[VCO]

Lol. Those are a lot of verses calling be evil. Does getting rid of homelessness and starvation offend and anger you?

Galatians 2:17-19

17*But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18*For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19*For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Now in those verses you quoted, did you catch what Satan's purpose was? To teach what NOT to do!

Not at all, but since when is doing what mankind considers good charitable acts, a test for Doctrines and Teachings, to determine if they are of GOD. Here is the TEST we are supposed to use:

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


They new that GOD does not contradict Himself, therefore the tested the teaching of Paul by comparing it to what God has already said on any given subject. Had Paul contradicted GOD's Word even at one small point, ALL of his writings would have been rejected.

Mormons Teach there are many gods.

But GOD says:
Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Mormons teach that the Father was once a man that became a GOD.

But GOD says:
John 4:24 (NKJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Genesis 21:33 (NIV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD, the Eternal God.

Mormons teach man can become like God.

But GOD says that is a lie of the Devil:
Genesis 3:4-5 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

John 8:44 (ASV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

As for the Mormon teaching that they are good men.

GOD SAYS:

Romans 3:9-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have previously charged that both Jews and Gentiles are all under sin,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

Guess what, good deeds are NOT good if we do them for the WRONG MOTIVE.

Even the devil does what the world considers good, to CON them into believing his lies.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.

 

[VCO]

For your information, I believe all the main Christian beliefs. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Divine Savior, who shed his blood on the cross so that my sins can be forgiven. I believe he was resurrected and stands by the right hand of God in the heavens today, awaiting his second coming. I believe other things about Jesus Christ that you and I will not agree about, but just because I don't agree with you on all points, doesn't eliminate my love for Jesus Christ and my devotion to him and his blood covering me too. I claim my knowledge of Jesus comes right out of the Bible, just like yours. I also believe in grace. I believe in the Bible, but I also believe in other
Christ-centered books too, complimentary to the Bible. Second and third witnesses of Jesus Christ, that makes for a much firmer foundation on which to pledge my life and being to the building up of the Kingdom of God.

Thank you for the cordial welcome, but I would not give up my day job to try out for an ambassador of Christ. An attitude of mockery and haughtiness are certainly not high on the list of attributes Jesus is looking for.

I will answer your question tomorrow, when I have more time. See you then.

You said a lot but you did not say you believe in the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, which is the MAIN Christian Doctrine, believe that JESUS is part of the Triune GOD, the ONE and ONLY GOD that exists.

Proverbs 30:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Don’t add to His words, or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book.

Oh MY and you added other books.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Not at all, but since when is doing what mankind considers good charitable acts, a test for Doctrines and Teachings, to determine if they are of GOD. Here is the TEST we are supposed to use:

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


They new that GOD does not contradict Himself, therefore the tested the teaching of Paul by comparing it to what God has already said on any given subject. Had Paul contradicted GOD's Word even at one small point, ALL of his writings would have been rejected.

Mormons Teach there are many gods.

But GOD says:
Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Mormons teach that the Father was once a man that became a GOD.

But GOD says:
John 4:24 (NKJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Genesis 21:33 (NIV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD, the Eternal God.

Mormons teach man can become like God.

But GOD says that is a lie of the Devil:
Genesis 3:4-5 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

John 8:44 (ASV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

As for the Mormon teaching that they are good men.

GOD SAYS:

Romans 3:9-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have previously charged that both Jews and Gentiles are all under sin,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

Guess what, good deeds are NOT good if we do them for the WRONG MOTIVE.

Even the devil does what the world considers good, to CON them into believing his lies.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.

Mormons may very well teach that, but YOU should be mature in Christ to know that there is but one God. Did He not make the Gentiles (in this case Mormons) also? Or did one of the gods they worship make them?