Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

[Jason0047]

No, but his comment on getting people drunk on the good wine to bring out lesser wine. However, he does not call this lesser wine, but the best, hence it does conclude that this wine had an alcoholic content.

I can be "well drunk" full of kool aid or water but that does not mean I am drunk. It just means I had "drunk well" of a particular substance. It doesn't mean I am drunk.

 

[Billyd]

I never said that wine cannot ferment on it's own yeast that is present on the skin of the grapes. Sometimes this yeast amount is very low, though. So the amount of yeast determines the amount of alcohol produced.



Yeast is naturally produced on the skin of a grape in the form of a substance like powder. Jesus would not have made the grapes, crush them, and then let them ferment to a high alcoholic level.



If you eliminate the yeast from the grape by boiling it, etc. You will then have created unfermented wine or grape juice.




Will it forment to 10% out in open air? Is this always the case? Please show me a source from a wine website or expert that would make this claim.

Jason, the amount of alcohol in non distilled spirits is determined solely by the total sugar in the juice. Naturally fermented wine just takes longer than wine made with added yeast. The fermenting process can be stopped before all the sugar is consumed two ways. You can heat the wine to kill the yeast, or remove all the air to kill the yeast. The quality of the wine is determined by the quality of the fruit selected.

 

[ThomistColin]

I can be "well drunk" full of kool aid or water but that does not mean I am drunk. It just means I had "drunk well" of a particular substance. It doesn't mean I am drunk.

Thats twisting it. He calls this good wine. He defined good wine as being able to get men drunk, meaning inebriated. This he calls the best wine. By definition, it means it was delicious and intoxicating. AND OF COURSE IT WAS INTOXICATING! It was the wine of Heaven.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, the amount of alcohol in non distilled spirits is determined solely by the total sugar in the juice. Naturally fermented wine just takes longer than wine made with added yeast. The fermenting process can be stopped before all the sugar is consumed two ways. You can heat the wine to kill the yeast, or remove all the air to kill the yeast. The quality of the wine is determined by the quality of the fruit selected.

Your not telling me anything new. I know this already.
The sugar amount that mixes with the proper amount of yeast will produce alcohol. The alcohol level is determined by the sugar amount in the grape and the yeast. You have a very small batch of grapes that are low in sugar and yeast content, and you are not going to get a 10% wine. This why sugar and yeast is added sometimes.

 

[Jason0047]

Thats twisting it. He calls this good wine. He defined good wine as being able to get men drunk, meaning inebriated. This he calls the best wine. By definition, it means it was delicious and intoxicating. AND OF COURSE IT WAS INTOXICATING! It was the wine of Heaven.

Then you have a contradction in the Bible. For no drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10).

 

[Last]

I never denied that sugars didn't play an important part of the wine making process. You need both yeast and the sugar.

No, you were saying that the level of yeast to start with changes the final alcohol content. It does not. The yeast will reproduce and eat the sugars.

You can't have one without the other. And you are changing the scenario now. Adding sugar? How is that natural?

How am I changing anything? I am pointing out the facts about wine. People can add sugar to wine today, which will increase the alcohol content.

 

[Last]

Then you have a contradction in the Bible. For no drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10).

Having wine does not make you a drunkard.

 

[Jason0047]

No, you were saying that the level of yeast to start with changes the final alcohol content. It does not. The yeast will reproduce and eat the sugars.

I know what I said. I said the yeast eats the sugars and poops out alcohol. Go back into the thread if you don't believe me.

How am I changing anything? I am pointing out the facts about wine. People can add sugar to wine today, which will increase the alcohol content.

You were making it sound like grapes (in various amounts) can naturally produce in every case a 10% alcoholic wine. I don't believe this to be true, though.

 

[JackH]

Therefore, in my congregation, we take cracker and grape juice for the Lord's Supper because we believe that to be biblical.

Many denominations use wine for the Lord's Supper because they believe that to be biblical.

Included in those that do are the Church of England and the Episcopal Church. You know, the ones responsible for the perfect King James Bible.

Would those who created the King James perfect Bible engage in behavior not approved by Jesus? (That's more of a question for Jason0047 and the other KKJV-ONLY cultists.)

And of course we know what the person most responsible for the Reformation thought about the subject.

 

[Billyd]

Your not telling me anything new. I know this already.
The sugar amount that mixes with the proper amount of yeast will produce alcohol. The alcohol level is determined by the sugar amount in the grape and the yeast. You have a very small batch of grapes that are low in sugar and yeast content, and you are not going to get a 10% wine.

Jason, the amount of yeast has nothing to do with the alcohol content. The amount of yeast grows as the wine ferments.
A small batch of grapes will yield the same alcohol content as a huge vat of the same grapes. The amount of yeast controls the speed of fermentation.

 

[Agricola]

Yes that seems to be a concept lost on some people, I can drink 40% spirit, Malt Whiskey is superb, but I do not get intoxicated, I enjoy it, tastes good, it is good and that is that.

 

[ThomistColin]

Then you have a contradction in the Bible. For no drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10).

So, God's love is not intoxicating, what about His goodness, what about Him? God created the process of fermentation, and He meant it for our good. You are reacting to the fallen action upon a good thing. Sex is a good thing, but it can become evil through the actions of man. So too is alcohol.

 

[Jason0047]

Many denominations use wine for the Lord's Supper because they believe that to be biblical.

Included in those that do are the Church of England and the Episcopal Church. You know, the ones responsible for the perfect King James Bible.

Would those who created the King James perfect Bible engage in behavior not approved by Jesus? (That's more of a question for Jason0047 and the other KKJV-ONLY cultists.)

And of course we know what the person most responsible for the Reformation thought about the subject.

If people were "well drunk" at the Wedding of Cana, then they would have been drunk. Which is a sin. For 1 Corinthians 6:10 says drunkards shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. How exactly is that Biblical again?

 

[Jason0047]

So, God's love is not intoxicating, what about His goodness, what about Him? God created the process of fermentation, and He meant it for our good. You are reacting to the fallen action upon a good thing. Sex is a good thing, but it can become evil through the actions of man. So too is alcohol.

Is drunkenness a sin? Yes or no?

 

[ThomistColin]

Is drunkenness a sin? Yes or no?

Are you drunk after drinking wine? Or after drinking too much wine?

 

[Last]

I know what I said. I said the yeast eats the sugars and poops out alcohol. Go back into the thread if you don't believe me.



You were making it sound like grapes (in various amounts) can naturally produce in every case a 10% alcoholic wine. I don't believe this to be true, though.

No, you have repeatedly claimed that you need to add yeast to the existing yeast to get the wine to produce alcohol on the level of modern wines.
It does not matter how much yeast you start with, yeast reproduce. If I take sterile grape juice and split it into two batches - adding 1 cup of yeast to one and 1/2 cup of yeast to the other, I'll get the same amount.
If I squeeze grapes and take half of the batch and let it ferment with the natural yeast, I'll get the same amount of alcohol as I could if I added yeast to it.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, the amount of yeast has nothing to do with the alcohol content. The amount of yeast grows as the wine ferments.
A small batch of grapes will yield the same alcohol content as a huge vat of the same grapes. The amount of yeast controls the speed of fermentation.

I quote to you the Wiki article you sent to me.

"The sugar percentage of the must is calculated from the measured density, the must weight, with the help of a specialized type of hydrometer called a saccharometer."​

 

[Jason0047]

No, you have repeatedly claimed that you need to add yeast to the existing yeast to get the wine to produce alcohol on the level of modern wines.
It does not matter how much yeast you start with, yeast reproduce. If I take sterile grape juice and split it into two batches - adding 1 cup of yeast to one and 1/2 cup of yeast to the other, I'll get the same amount.
If I squeeze grapes and take half of the batch and let it ferment with the natural yeast, I'll get the same amount of alcohol as I could if I added yeast to it.

Yes, Modern Wines that are a super high in alcoholic content. That's what the Wiki article says. In order to acheive higher levels of alcoholic wines that are used today, you need to increase the sugar and yeast amount. In other words, if I took a small amount of grapes that were extremely low in sugar and yeast content naturally, it is not going to produce a 10% wine.

 

[Last]

I quote to you the Wiki article you sent to me.

"The sugar percentage of the must is calculated from the measured density, the must weight, with the help of a specialized type of hydrometer called a saccharometer."​

I quoted that. Any what does this have to do with anything you have said? You have repeatedly tried to claim that ancient wines had low alcohol content unless you added yeast to it, and that is not true.

 

[lisa79]

Thats twisting it. He calls this good wine. He defined good wine as being able to get men drunk, meaning inebriated. This he calls the best wine. By definition, it means it was delicious and intoxicating. AND OF COURSE IT WAS INTOXICATING! It was the wine of Heaven.

It has taken us days to point out this simple truth...thank you!