Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Please explain, in your own words, what had to be done to new wine to preserve it in its unfermented state.

One such method was to boil the wines, killing off the yeast. Sealing it in an amphora (a wine bottled sealed with pitch), and sinking it in a pool of cool water. I

 

[JackH]

new wine... Preserved in its fresh, unfermented state.

And what happened to the new wine when it was put in new bottles?

And why did Jesus say put it in new bottles?

 

[JackH]

One such method was to boil the wines, killing off the yeast. Sealing it in an amphora (a wine bottled sealed with pitch), and sinking it in a pool of cool water. I

And what exactly did you end up with when you did that?

A beverage that was equivalent to fresh grape juice from newly picked grape clusters from which you squeezed the juice into your mouth?

 

[JackH]

What was the accusation? "These men are full of new wine." The mockers did not say "wine". Why not? Because they knew the followers of Jesus did not drink oinos, but gleukos.... an unfermented wine freshly squeezed from the cluster.

Wrong.

The mockers thought the followers of Jesus were acting goofy like they were drunk as a skunk.

But no, the followers of Jesus were "high" on the Holy Spirit.

And not like those at a Benny Hinn dog and pony show.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

And what happened to the new wine when it was put in new bottles?

It was preserved. You ever watch someone preserve foods? My aunt preserved many foods. After boiling, she would put the food in a jar. She would then seal the jar and the food could sit on a shelf for a year or more without going bad. Ancients used the same techneques for preserving their wines in their unfermented state. They would boil them, put them in wine bottle, seal the bottles and shelf them. Cato, Aristotle, Pliny the Elder, Columella all recorded this technique in their writings from the first Century AD and earlier.

And why did Jesus say put it in new bottles?

So that it would not ferment.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

And what exactly did you end up with when you did that?

A beverage that was equivalent to fresh grape juice from newly picked grape clusters from which you squeezed the juice into your mouth?

The beverage was indeed equivalent to freshly squeezed grape juice. And according to the Bible, Grape juice was known as wine... even while it was still inside the grape.

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

 

[JackH]

So that it would not ferment.

Wrong again.

Jesus said to put the new wine into new bottles so that it would ferment properly.

 

[JackH]

Ancients used the same techneques for preserving their wines in their unfermented state. They would boil them, put them in wine bottle, seal the bottles and shelf them.

Wrong again.

When you boil it like you have described what you end up with is a syrup with the consistency of molasses.

This tastes like freshly squeezed grape juice?

 

[dcontroversal]

Wrong again.

When you boil it like you have described what you end up with is a syrup with the consistency of molasses.

This tastes like freshly squeezed grape juice?

Hey Jack...you can forget it...people who go to seed on their own views will not accept scripture in context as their opinion vastly outweighs biblical truths that teach to the contrary!

At the end of the day they believe Jesus was stupid or misinformed and or didn't mean what he said......!

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Oh, I accept Scripture in its context. Context shows the wine Jesus made could not have been alcoholic. Context shows the wine that God says not even to look upon is alcoholic.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Before the cross, fermented drink was not permitted in the Temple.

After the cross, the Beleiver became the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

If any man defile the Temple, him will God destroy.

If God would not allow alcohol in the Temple in the Old Testament, it is quite obvious it is not allowed in the Temple that is supposed to house the Holy Ghost today.

 

[KJV1611]

Originally Posted by KJV1611

Jack this is simple... New wine is grape juice, old wine is fermented grape juice. Wine without NEW or OLD in front of it could mean either one. But to answer your question, freshly squeezed grape juice can not be preserved as FRESHLY squeezed grape juice. Fermented grape juice is no longer PURE FRESH CLEAN grape juice.

Luke 5:38: "But new wine must be put into new bottles: and both are preserved." (KJV)

Those words are in red in my KJV, which you say is perfect.

Why is Jesus giving this advice, do you think?

Because those verses have nothing to do with alcoholic drinks. Jesus isn't giving lessons on how to store wine, he's giving a parable about the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer.

 

[JackH]

Because those verses have nothing to do with alcoholic drinks.

Wrong.

Those verses do have something to do with alcoholic drinks.

Luke 5:37: (In the words of Jesus): "And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish."

Luke 5:38: "But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved."

Did Jesus lie?

I don't think so. The bottles were wineskins, as translations like the NASB read. (Yet another error in the KJV?)

What caused old wineskins to burst is the fermentation process. New wineskins stretched and didn't burst during fermentation, but old wineskins were already stretched and could burst.

Oh, I agree, these verses are also a parable.

But Jesus didn't lie about what to do with the new wine, did he?

Jesus didn't lie about how to properly handle the wine so that it ferments properly and you have a really good (alcoholic) wine, did he?

 

[lisa79]

This good wine being non intoxicating of course. For Jesus' good wine was freshly squeezed wine from the cluster. It was the pure blood of the grape.

OR the pure blood of the grape brought to perfection by the hands of God. The new wine or blood that one recievces by our new skins at the appointment of God which we recieve after being born again into a member of the body of Christ or "Church family"

 

[Last]

Actually, there were methods that the ancients used to preserve new wine in its unfermented state. Jason posted some of those methods a few pages back.

No there weren't. That process is called pasteurization and it was invented only within the last few centuries.

 

[Last]

One such method was to boil the wines, killing off the yeast. Sealing it in an amphora (a wine bottled sealed with pitch), and sinking it in a pool of cool water. I

That would not work. There is yeast in the air and the bottle would explode. The only method for preserving grape juice was invented in the 19th Century as a result of understanding microbiology.

 

[JackH]

Before the cross, fermented drink was not permitted in the Temple.

After the cross, the Beleiver became the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

If any man defile the Temple, him will God destroy.

If God would not allow alcohol in the Temple in the Old Testament, it is quite obvious it is not allowed in the Temple that is supposed to house the Holy Ghost today.

Numbers 28:7: ". . . in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering." (KJV)

Go ahead, make my day. Let's see how you twist that one.

 

[Last]

It was preserved. You ever watch someone preserve foods? My aunt preserved many foods. After boiling, she would put the food in a jar. She would then seal the jar and the food could sit on a shelf for a year or more without going bad. Ancients used the same techneques for preserving their wines in their unfermented state. They would boil them, put them in wine bottle, seal the bottles and shelf them. Cato, Aristotle, Pliny the Elder, Columella all recorded this technique in their writings from the first Century AD and earlier.

So that it would not ferment.

Preserved foods is pasteurization and it is named for the guy that invented it. None of those people recorded pasteurization since it did not exist.

Please stop revising history.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Wrong again.

When you boil it like you have described what you end up with is a syrup with the consistency of molasses.

This tastes like freshly squeezed grape juice?

Water was added to reconstitute it. But it was still called wine by ancient historians

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

No there weren't. That process is called pasteurization and it was invented only within the last few centuries.

Only invented in the last few centuries? Funny, Cato, Columella, Pliny the Elder, et.al., all recorded the process in their writings. Better check your sources again... They haven't done their homework.