Also, this acohol site says that the process of fermentation can be completed or done.
https://www.mainbrew.com/racking-ExtraPages.html
https://www.mainbrew.com/racking-ExtraPages.html
Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.
- Thread starter Jason0047
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Not really in suspense or worried about it. If I made a mistake about a wine making fact, I am more than willing to admit any wrong I have posted from a wine making site. So if you want to point it out. Great. If you don't, thats fine too. I really do not consider you to be an authority on wine making because you are biased towards the subject and see things in Scripture that are not there that approves of it's use during the OT times. For there are more verses that condemn and warn against alcoholic beverages than there are of those that approve of it. It's not a "What if", or a "Maybe", it is simply a Biblical fact.
L
Jason was originally trying to make fermentation and alcohol and issue of barely alcoholic wines produces naturally versus strongly alcoholic wines produced by man using more yeast.
He is now obsessing about 'complete fermentation' as a way of saving this argument. Wine ferments almost all of its sugars. The small amount of sugars that remains render it a dry or sweet wine. It really does not significantly change the alcohol of the final wine.
He is now obsessing about 'complete fermentation' as a way of saving this argument. Wine ferments almost all of its sugars. The small amount of sugars that remains render it a dry or sweet wine. It really does not significantly change the alcohol of the final wine.
First, I don't think a believer has to agree 100% on every point on the topic of Absentationism or other issues in the Bible so as to approve of somebody's written work. Many times folks will "like" a few words in what someone has to say and not agree 100% witin that topic. What you are doing is trying to divide us as brothers. Me and "Standing Firm in Christ" both agree on the heart of the issue here. That Jesus did not serve strong alcoholic wine and or contributing in intoxicating a bunch of people who were already drunk. We also both believe that abstaining from alcohol is the best choice for a Christian within his walk and it is nothing to be ashamed of. That it is is an honorable decision. Whether we agree exactly on every passage in regards to the word "wine" or the word "strong drink" is irrelevant. We come to the together as brothers in Christ and are fighting against the major issue at hand here (Which is defending the goodness of our Lord Jesus Christ and the holiness of His people).
Second, I am not afraid I make mistakes and don't I don't always double check all my sources by crossing my "T's" and dotting my "I's." I am human and I am not perfect. But I am glad you caught that. You are right. I don't believe that one tid bit of information about Shekar that the author at Lavista Church had written. I had written before in another thread that I don't believe everything the author writes or believes.
Anyways, to keep it brief, Deuteronomy 14:26 is actually talking about unfermented wine and strong fruit beverages (strong in fruit and not in alcohol). How so? Well, Deuteronomy 14:22-26 dealt with the tithe offerings to the Lord. These tithes were offerings unto God. And the daily offerings included meat and drink offerings. Leaven, which is a yeast, is forbidden in the daily meat offerings (Leviticus 2:11 KJV). In fact, Leviticus 2:11 specifically states, "ye shall burn no leaven... in any offering of the LORD made by fire." And the drink offerings most of the time were made by fire (Which included the daily offerings: (Exodus 29:41 KJV) (Numbers 28:7, 8) the First fruits Feast of Weeks: (Leviticus 23:18 KJV) and the Feast of Trumpets: (Numbers 29:6 KJV)).
For leaven (yeast) is representative of sin within the Bible.
And alcoholic wine is made by the yeast activating with the sugars within the alcohol. Many times this yeast is naturally present as a powder like substance upon the skin of the grape; And sometimes it is not there in significant quantity due to rainy seasons and off many native grape populations for making fermented wine.
Second, I am not afraid I make mistakes and don't I don't always double check all my sources by crossing my "T's" and dotting my "I's." I am human and I am not perfect. But I am glad you caught that. You are right. I don't believe that one tid bit of information about Shekar that the author at Lavista Church had written. I had written before in another thread that I don't believe everything the author writes or believes.
Anyways, to keep it brief, Deuteronomy 14:26 is actually talking about unfermented wine and strong fruit beverages (strong in fruit and not in alcohol). How so? Well, Deuteronomy 14:22-26 dealt with the tithe offerings to the Lord. These tithes were offerings unto God. And the daily offerings included meat and drink offerings. Leaven, which is a yeast, is forbidden in the daily meat offerings (Leviticus 2:11 KJV). In fact, Leviticus 2:11 specifically states, "ye shall burn no leaven... in any offering of the LORD made by fire." And the drink offerings most of the time were made by fire (Which included the daily offerings: (Exodus 29:41 KJV) (Numbers 28:7, 8) the First fruits Feast of Weeks: (Leviticus 23:18 KJV) and the Feast of Trumpets: (Numbers 29:6 KJV)).
For leaven (yeast) is representative of sin within the Bible.
And alcoholic wine is made by the yeast activating with the sugars within the alcohol. Many times this yeast is naturally present as a powder like substance upon the skin of the grape; And sometimes it is not there in significant quantity due to rainy seasons and off many native grape populations for making fermented wine.
As for natural wild yeast fermentations:
In other words, it is not a proven 100% Science. This is important to note because most folks here act like you get alcoholic wine every single time the grapes are crushed.
Source:
Wild Yeast in Winemaking
Yeast Geneticist and Enology Professor at the University of California at Davis believes that, with the exception of a few wineries, the success of native yeast fermentations is anything but “proven” and supports the Department’s recommendation against the practice of uninoculated fermentations. She states, “I do not endorse this practice for several reasons. First, most wineries can ill afford to lose 10-20% of their production. In contrast to other techniques, a bad natural yeast fermentation leads to a wine that is not merely low in quality, but unmarketable.
In other words, it is not a proven 100% Science. This is important to note because most folks here act like you get alcoholic wine every single time the grapes are crushed.
Source:
Wild Yeast in Winemaking
W
Why calling this scripture legalistic? Why are you afraid of it? I just merely quoted this scripture, it's self explanatory, did it convict you, since you are attacking it? If you think God is legalistic that is your problem. There is a fear of God, it's healthy, keeps you out of hell!
Matt 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell
Matt 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell
Also, Deuteronomy 29:6 says,
"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God"
"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God"
W
I am not going to argue with you, you are set out to drink alcohol, so be it, it's your decision, I merely quote truth, so whatever you think of scripture and however you want to twist it to make it say what you need it to say, you do so to your own destruction.
People get offended at truth in scripture, mostly because they are convicted, but don't want to change. Again your decision!
If you fall short, then repent! God didn't say in vain that sin kills and leads to death unless it is repented of, the problem is that people don't really believe in God, when they don't believe what He says and that He means what He says and therefore make Him out to be a liar! It's called unbelieving "believer". But I also blame most churches nowadays who water down the true word of God so much, there is hardly anything left of the truth. In a day and age where people are trying to explain away hell and a God who does punish and sent people there for not following His commandments:
[h=1]Matthew 7:22-23[/h]22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
John 14:15
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:24
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and theword which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Another scripture most people would love to scratch out of the Bible:
1 John 3:8
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
BTW the scripture I referred to was the one about the drunkards in 1 Cor. There is nothing about alcohol in the scripture of John, easily seen in context of my reply to the previous quote!
People get offended at truth in scripture, mostly because they are convicted, but don't want to change. Again your decision!
If you fall short, then repent! God didn't say in vain that sin kills and leads to death unless it is repented of, the problem is that people don't really believe in God, when they don't believe what He says and that He means what He says and therefore make Him out to be a liar! It's called unbelieving "believer". But I also blame most churches nowadays who water down the true word of God so much, there is hardly anything left of the truth. In a day and age where people are trying to explain away hell and a God who does punish and sent people there for not following His commandments:
[h=1]Matthew 7:22-23[/h]22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
John 14:15
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:24
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and theword which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Another scripture most people would love to scratch out of the Bible:
1 John 3:8
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
BTW the scripture I referred to was the one about the drunkards in 1 Cor. There is nothing about alcohol in the scripture of John, easily seen in context of my reply to the previous quote!
Yes, this was speaking of fermented beverage. They didn't drink it. Why not? So they could prove their love for the Lord.
but notice...
Deuteronomy 32:14 (KJV) 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
they drank the pure blood of the grape. What they drank in the wilderness wanderings was grape juice... The unfermented wine found in the cluster.
but notice...
Deuteronomy 32:14 (KJV) 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
they drank the pure blood of the grape. What they drank in the wilderness wanderings was grape juice... The unfermented wine found in the cluster.