Mormons / Latter Day Saints
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It is the big picture that is important, and you see it. Acts 17 just tell us that you and I are literally an offspring of God in the spirit. By being valient in the pre-existence, we were blessed there and enjoy a benefit here in our earth life in the flesh and that is that our spirit recongnizes the call of Jesus Christ that we learned so well in the pre-existence.
It is important that your spirit recognizes that call and responds positively to the words of Jesus Christ, because in our earthlife we have to prove ourselves all over again. That proof is that we believe in Christ, and then when we believe in Christ and are born again, and are valiant for him here in our earthlife, we can be adopted and become a son of God in the flesh for all eternity. The only direct offspring of God in the flesh is Jesus.
It is important that your spirit recognizes that call and responds positively to the words of Jesus Christ, because in our earthlife we have to prove ourselves all over again. That proof is that we believe in Christ, and then when we believe in Christ and are born again, and are valiant for him here in our earthlife, we can be adopted and become a son of God in the flesh for all eternity. The only direct offspring of God in the flesh is Jesus.
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Genealogy was important to those who had to prove that they were of the family of Levi in order to qualify to be a priest for God in the days when Israel had a temple and synagogues all over the land. The Lord needed many priests and he chose the sons of Aaron from the tribe of Levi to accomplish this task. So many of these priests used their genealogy to become a priest and received benefits from the other tribes like land and housing and food etc so that they could perform the temple and synagogue duties. But so many of them got the benefits and then did not perform their duties. By the end, hardly a priest could be found doing their duty, so God said that these endless genealogies were an abomination unto Him.
Your genealogy, however, is a different story. You are doing it for the reasons that the Lord has ordained. Your record and your stories and your willingness to share your stories with your children are a treasure for your family and to God himself.
Genealogical work creates a bridge from the past to the present. A bond is established when you find that your great-great-grandfather wrote his testimony of Jesus Christ and passed it onto his children and now 100+ years later your family can identify this man as your ancestor, and his precious story becomes part of the family history. It becomes easier for our children to stay Christ-centered when they know their family for hundreds of years believed in Jesus Christ.
Read Malachi 4:5-6. It is longer that Job 8:8 but encourages us to turn our hearts to our fathers and they will turn their hearts to us, their children. Thats what genealogy is all about. It is important to the Lord, so important that if we do not do this great work, the Lord will smite the earth with a curse.
So Keep up the good work, you and your family will be blessed for your diligent effort. Tell your wife I am proud of her, and I just saw another post about one of your ancestors that I will read and comment on. So thank you for that and may God bless you for your willingness to serve him and his chidren.
Your genealogy, however, is a different story. You are doing it for the reasons that the Lord has ordained. Your record and your stories and your willingness to share your stories with your children are a treasure for your family and to God himself.
Genealogical work creates a bridge from the past to the present. A bond is established when you find that your great-great-grandfather wrote his testimony of Jesus Christ and passed it onto his children and now 100+ years later your family can identify this man as your ancestor, and his precious story becomes part of the family history. It becomes easier for our children to stay Christ-centered when they know their family for hundreds of years believed in Jesus Christ.
Read Malachi 4:5-6. It is longer that Job 8:8 but encourages us to turn our hearts to our fathers and they will turn their hearts to us, their children. Thats what genealogy is all about. It is important to the Lord, so important that if we do not do this great work, the Lord will smite the earth with a curse.
So Keep up the good work, you and your family will be blessed for your diligent effort. Tell your wife I am proud of her, and I just saw another post about one of your ancestors that I will read and comment on. So thank you for that and may God bless you for your willingness to serve him and his chidren.
I'll answer with my beliefs anyway. I just felt as though I should quote other scriptures from God's word. Hope that you don't mind. Tongue in cheek thing going on.
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
(Romans 8:28-29)
One might think that this scripture confirms the existence of “spirit children” before natural birth. This is describing the omniscient qualities of the Almighty God. Neither does this scripture indicate that God chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell before we are born, leaving us with no choice but to parish.
Now speaking of creation, Jesus being the first born “from the dead” not before His birth, bu rather referring to His resurrection, I quote.....
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist . And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence . (Colossians 1:15-18)
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them , *I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23)
In Matthew, Jesus isn't taking about the fallen angels, He's talking about people of the flesh. If He says to those that He *“never” knew them, it is certain that He never knew them as “spirit children” before they were born either.
“And so it is written , The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. ( Corinthians 15:46)
From what I read in scripture (not wanting to argue, I like Mormons) "spirit children" is a fallacy.
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
(Romans 8:28-29)
One might think that this scripture confirms the existence of “spirit children” before natural birth. This is describing the omniscient qualities of the Almighty God. Neither does this scripture indicate that God chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell before we are born, leaving us with no choice but to parish.
Now speaking of creation, Jesus being the first born “from the dead” not before His birth, bu rather referring to His resurrection, I quote.....
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist . And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence . (Colossians 1:15-18)
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them , *I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23)
In Matthew, Jesus isn't taking about the fallen angels, He's talking about people of the flesh. If He says to those that He *“never” knew them, it is certain that He never knew them as “spirit children” before they were born either.
“And so it is written , The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. ( Corinthians 15:46)
From what I read in scripture (not wanting to argue, I like Mormons) "spirit children" is a fallacy.
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You have the first creation in chapter 1.
You then have this interesting scripture Gen. 2:5 that tells us that nothing has been put on the physical earth yet. The translation that I gave you tells us why nothing is on the physical earth yet. The KJV has dropped all that information. If you read the verse in KJV it is disjointed and does not make sense. Plants before they were in the earth, not a man to till the ground. What's that all about, especially coming after chatper 1 and the beautiful creation story told there?
Then you have another creation story in chapter 2, starting in vs 6.
Chapter 1 has to be a spirit creation because something was definitely created in chapter 1, but there wasn't anything created in chapter 1 showing up on the physical earth created in chapter 2, according to vs 5, until vs 6.
You then have this interesting scripture Gen. 2:5 that tells us that nothing has been put on the physical earth yet. The translation that I gave you tells us why nothing is on the physical earth yet. The KJV has dropped all that information. If you read the verse in KJV it is disjointed and does not make sense. Plants before they were in the earth, not a man to till the ground. What's that all about, especially coming after chatper 1 and the beautiful creation story told there?
Then you have another creation story in chapter 2, starting in vs 6.
Chapter 1 has to be a spirit creation because something was definitely created in chapter 1, but there wasn't anything created in chapter 1 showing up on the physical earth created in chapter 2, according to vs 5, until vs 6.
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Posted by just-me
I did it anyway LOL
see previous post # 445 above. With that said I like Mormons very much. Most are raised better than the average munchkin. LOL They esteem the Law God gave to Moses and that makes a very big difference unlike most evangelical religions these days.
I did it anyway LOL
see previous post # 445 above. With that said I like Mormons very much. Most are raised better than the average munchkin. LOL They esteem the Law God gave to Moses and that makes a very big difference unlike most evangelical religions these days.
So we talk Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, so that our children may know the source that they must look to for the remission of their sins. He died on the cross and satisfied the last requirement of the Law of Moses and he laid down the Law of Christ that all who believe in him and will follow him will be saved in the Kingdom of God.
I'm going to try doing one idea at a time, so they don't get lost in a long post... I agree that reading 2:5 in the KJV is hard... the sentence actually starts in 2:4 with These are... it's a long, hard sentence with lots of clauses... (KJV begins every verse with a capital letter...) try it in a modern English translation... I'm old friends with the nasb, myself...
The question is: Did Jesus ever know them? The answer is yes. He knew that they had not followed the prescribed way. He knew they had done works of iniquity. He also knew those who were doing things right. He had to know them to judge them. After they had an opportunity to plead, he then pronounced judgement, which was "I never knew you, depart from me."
It is absolutely not true that he did not know them. And because it is not true, we must look for a another meaning for the phrase "I never knew you", otherwise Jesus would be lying and we know that is not a possibilty. I believe the phrase has to do with I do not recognize your works. I do not concur with what you have done in my name and therefore I am disavowing your works as if I never knew you.
This scripture, however, does not relate to the pre-existence in any way. Jesus was talking about people he may very well have known personally that were doing things in his name that were not authorized or correct and probably making money too. So when he said "he never knew them" he was not in any way referring to the pre-existence, all he was doing was disavowing them, maybe disowning them.
This is not an anti pre-existence scripture.
It is absolutely not true that he did not know them. And because it is not true, we must look for a another meaning for the phrase "I never knew you", otherwise Jesus would be lying and we know that is not a possibilty. I believe the phrase has to do with I do not recognize your works. I do not concur with what you have done in my name and therefore I am disavowing your works as if I never knew you.
This scripture, however, does not relate to the pre-existence in any way. Jesus was talking about people he may very well have known personally that were doing things in his name that were not authorized or correct and probably making money too. So when he said "he never knew them" he was not in any way referring to the pre-existence, all he was doing was disavowing them, maybe disowning them.
This is not an anti pre-existence scripture.
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