When the scripture says, and God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, "the breath of life" and he became a living soul, I believe that is a metaphoric statement that God placed Adams already-existing, pre-existent spirit into the newly formed flesh and bone body of Adam and he became a living soul.
I do not believe that there is a pre-existent spirit and then when Adam's flesh and bone body was formed, his pre-existent spirit was sent off to some storage locker and a new spirit was breathed into Adams nostrils.
There is only 1 birth of the pre-existent spirit. This spirit is not reborn at the birth of a new flesh and blood body, it is just placed into it and continues to exist, but now united with the flesh and bone body. It is born-again later(only the second time) as you become aware of God and his gospel and you go to your knees and repent of your sins and confess Jesus. At this time the Holy Spirit enters into this body and communes with your pre-existent spirit (that was only born once) and witnesses that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God. We become one with the Godhead and we are valiant for the cause of Christ in our second estate and our whole future is bright and full of joy.
Some say that a soul is actually a fleshly body, using this verse. “For whosoever eateth the fat of the beast, of which men offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, even
the soul that eateth it shall be cut off from his people.” (Leviticus 7:25) I disagree with that because of this verse. “But his flesh upon him shall have pain , and his soul within him shall mourn.” (Job 14:22)
In study, I have learned that the soul that is within us is a God given capability to discern situations, going far enough to include invention, thus being more than the instinct of an animal. The soul of man is equated more with the mind, and the spirit of man is equated more with the heart. Memory then is a combination of the mind and the soul. Considering your explanations that the spirit given before birth is the same as after birth, (no pun intended) it would make sense that the memory of a preexisting life would continue without a memory lapse. Your explanations seemed to cater toward our memory coming back to us after being “born of the Spirit.” That brings us right back to the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. “Jesus answered , Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and
that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee,
Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth , and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh , and whither it goeth : so is every one that is
born of the Spirit. (John 3:5-8) By incorporating the doctrine you are describing, there can be only one conclusion. There are 2 spiritual births.
That leads me back to my previous posts trying to comprehend when the “spirit child” came into existence before the physical birth, viewing that as giving birth as a beginning, such as “the birth of a nation.” My rhetorical question will always be “Jesus remembered all things before He was born I the flesh, why can't we?”
I'm not sure if you are serious or you are mocking me. How many ways can you be born-again? I said the Holy Spirit communes with your spirit that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God, it also refreshes your spirit and you become one with the Godhead and you are supported in your valiant efforts to produce fruit for the Kingdom of God.
That seems to me to be a text-book born-again evangelical sermon. And according to evangelical teachings, if you are born again, you are saved from your sins. This is the whole reason for being born again, to repent and confess Jesus and be forgiven of your sins. Maybe you have another way that you are born-again, let us know?
No. With you there is nothing personal in the least. In conversation my impression of you is good. It's certain areas of the LDS doctrine that I have problems with because in a personal way they have been damaging. My wife's second cousin, who was very involved in the church years earlier in his life, mentioned in conversation that as one of the elders were teaching he realized a distributing discrepancy, and because of the one thing (comparing it with everything else he was taught), he has rejected the entire doctrine of Mormonism. He is now headed in the wrong direction. With that said, I want you to know that several older relatives of mine have sung in the tabernacle choir. Now you know that I have a little more insight than the average person that is not of that denomination. Yes, I agree that it sounded mocking, but I didn't mean to. Please forgive me for the statement, because what I was responding to doesn't make sense to me.
I would agree that the pre-existence of the spirit is something you have to dig for and study a little deeper into the scriptures. But how God has ordained that the body be procreated on earth and then resurrected as a new and glorious, incorruptible body of flesh and bone is standard Bible and evangelical gospel. You would have to council God as to why He did what he did and perhaps explain to Him that it could have been done better.
I will just quote scripture to answer that. (smile) “Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or
shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? (Isaiah 29:16)
The reason you went through the process of being born-again, is because you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God unless you are, says Jesus.
You may not be an angel and you may be fighting the flesh, but I think you are making a valiant effort for Christ here on earth, just like you did in the pre-exisstence.
I'm going to tell you why you don't remember the pre-existence. If you were completely aware of what happened in the pre-existence, your free will would be put at risk. The number one rule of God is that each man has the free will to choose good from evil. If you knew all, you would by compulsion choose good. Its almost like if you knew you had the best hand in a poker game, you would always pick the right way. What God does is give you a glimpse of the pre-existence through the scriptures, but not enough to get a full, unrestricted picture, and in that way he gives you enough to grow your faith, but not enough to destroy your free will.
If we were in the “kingdom of heaven” before we became a living soul as the first Adam, it seems rather strange that we would have to be born again to return there. The other thing that seems strange (taking Isaiah 29:16 into account)is that the God that I have come to know chastens us because of our transgressions. He doesn't throw us into situations that cause us to transgress because He desired chastisement before transgression takes place. The law was given for our understanding of His gracefulness toward us by saying, “Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.” (1 Samuel 15:22b) God desires us to obey so He will not have to punish. If we were once good before birth as “spirit children” why on earth (pun intended) would He jeopardize a beautiful relationship that we had with Him previously? Rhetorical again. I do that a lot don't I? (smile)
Actually, the angels that fought with Satan, were cast down to the new earth with him and we call them demons and devils and evil spirits. Jesus and the apostles were confronted many times by satan and these evil spirits, who called Jesus by name and new exactly who he was because they had known him in the pre-existence. Today, we fight hard not to even come in contact with Satan and these evil spirits.
Anyone that has a body (you really don't know how important the flesh and bone body is to God) in this earth life, kept their first estate in the pre-existence and fought against Satan and his angels. Satan and his angels did not keep their first estate (they were thrown out of heaven in the pre-existence) and will not have an opportunity to receive a body, or be resurrected and be with Jesus in his throne. By forfeiting their first estate, their future is dark and ugly
Angels are spirit beings, and we are not angels. At least I'm not. LOL
The way I read scripture is that the good angels fought with the bad ones.
Isaiah 14:10-14
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out , that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
There is no mention of preexisting spirits who would eventually become God created human beings. As I have mentioned before, angels (both good and bad) can take human form without having to be born from a woman on earth. Nephilim are the offspring of fallen angels, but are not God's creation bearing seed after their own kind as originally designed.
Genesis 1:26a And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: (and the angels weren't involved in creation according to Colossians chapter 1) God bless brother.
