The Sin of Pacifism

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elf3

Guest
You know what I am now gonna jump on the high horse and take us back to the old days. Not because I am better than anyone or know more than anyone or that I have more faith than anyone. But because I am tired of false teaching. Yeah cut me down all you want but only after you read this.

I am tired of people changing God's Word to their needs.

Who killed Goliath, Jesus turned water into grape juice, people adding to God's Word and people making scripture say what they want.

David killed Goliath, Jesus turned water into wine, gospel of Mary and Thomas are not God breathed and the Bible is pretty much self explanitory.

You got a problem with all that take it up with God not me.

You got a problem with me well good for you. I have had more insults toward me my whole life than most of you so yeah call me what you want. You think I don't have faith in God well go on thinking that cause that's not my problem it's yours.

God is Sovereign in all things and I mean all things. God has an elect, we are saved by grace through faith ect ect

Yeah believe in God's Sovereignty until it doesn't fit your needs.

If we want what's fair then we would all be in hell. Because of God's grace and Mercy we can have life with Him. You don't like it then talk to God.

This isn't a democracy it's a monarchy and God rules all!

Oh and by the way I will just keep reposting this here so sorry you gotta jump me on another forum.

:)
Huh I must have said something here that is truth. What is truth? Look up the word truth and see what Jesus says about truth. Jesus is truth!

Or certain people just put me on ignore lol.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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WHY DID JESUS ASK HIS DISCIPLES TO BUY A SWORD? HE SAID: "HE THAT HATH NO SWORD, LET HIM SELL HIS GARMENT, AND BUY ONE". (Luke 22:36)

Indeed it is a very interesting statement made by the Prince of peace!

Was Jesus telling them to buy a sword for offence, self-defense, or was He meaning something else? He said earlier:

Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also... Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

(Matthew 5:39, 40, 44)

The real battle is not with fellow humans but with the prince of demons. The apostle Paul penned down clearly these wonderful words of truth:

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:12)

We are to be equipped in this great warfare. In fact the entire armories we require in an earthly battle are also required in the spiritual battle. Each earthly weapon symbolizes some spiritual weapon.

Look at how the apostle relates the earthly to the spiritual:

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

And your feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Ephesians 6:13-18)

You have the "whole armour"-breastplate, shield, helmet, sword, etc! It is not the literal weapons, but rather "the breastplate of righteousness", "the shield of faith", "the helmet of salvation", and "the sword of the Spirit"!

Jesus told each of His disciples to possess a sword. Which sword? Was it literal swords that He bid them have?

Many times we see when Jesus spoke figuratively people got Him wrong. Even the learned Nicodemus misunderstood Christ regarding being born again. When Jesus talked about the spiritual birth he took it literally.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (John 3:4)

On another occasion when Jesus said that all must eat His flesh and drink His blood, the multitude took it literally and misunderstood

Him so badly that most of them never followed Christ after that! John records:

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying,

How can this man give us his flesh to eat?... Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?... From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (John 6:52, 60, 66)

Coming to the swords: Was Jesus talking about the literal swords to be taken? If He meant the literal swords why did He rebuke Peter for using the sword against His enemy, and why did

Jesus heal the injured man? Behold the scene.

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. (John 18:10)

Look at the compassion of Christ even for His enemies who came to kill Him!

And he touched his ear, and healed him. (Luke 22:51)

Notice how Jesus reacted to Peter's method of protecting his

Master:

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? (Matthew 26:52, 53)

A legion in the Roman army division was around 6,000 soldiers. "Twelve legions of angels" (i.e. a total of 72,000 angels in all): that is, one legion for each of them-Christ and the eleven apostles. (Judas had already joined the enemies of Christ, and was leading the other band!)

Christ did not need any earthly defense; the mighty heavenly air force was at His disposal if He wanted to. In fact we see the enemies of Jesus falling down, powerless, just before they arrested Him.

Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And

Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. (John 18:3-6)

The power of the divine Christ most likely flashed forth through

His human flesh, as it happened also on the Mount of Transfiguration where the three apostles of Jesus fell down on their faces seeing His glory (See Matthew 17:1-7).

God was giving His murderers another chance to let them know whom they were about the handle and crucify!

Before telling His disciples about the fierce battle ahead in

Gethsemane and Calvary, Jesus cautioned Peter about the attack of the devil on him.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the **** shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. (Luke 22:31-34)

Peter and the rest had no idea as to what exactly Christ spoke.

They had so many preconceived opinions about the future.

Peter truly loved the Lord. We can see it when he took the sword to defend his Master! But he trusted his own strength and wisdom. Therefore he finally denied his dearly beloved Lord. When he realized what he had done he wept bitterly!

And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the **** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

And Peter went out, and wept bitterly. (Luke 22:61, 62)

Peter and the rest failed during the crucial hour of test and temptation because they did not understand the Word of God! They did not put on the whole armor of God, but rather had the physical armor!

Which sword did Christ mean? Obviously He did not mean the literal sword as he rebuked Peter for using it. The Scripture reveals the true sword.

The sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

(Ephesians 6:17)

Revelation talks about the sword that Christ will use, as His weapon, to defeat His enemies finally:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations. (Revelation 19:15)

The sword that comes from His mouth is His Word!

Even in the wilderness when He was battling it out with the devil Christ used the "sword"-the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. For all the three fierce temptations that Satan assailed

Him with, the weapon of Jesus was the Word of God-"It is written"!

(See Matthew 4:1-11)

Christ was asking them to get ready for the fiercest battle that was just ahead of them. He was asking them to get equipped.

After telling the disciples to get prepared for the battle, Christ showed them as to what He meant, by taking them to the Garden of Gethsemane, for a powerful season of prayer, and the battle with the forces of darkness.

Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called

Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. (Matthew 26:36-38)

Instead of watching and praying, the disciples were overtaken with sleep. Jesus battles it alone! And He comes to check how the disciples are fairing in their battle, and, lo, they are already knocked out!

And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. (Matthew 26:40, 41)

Peter had a sword, but the wrong sword! What he was told to have was the spiritual sword to fight the battle in the Garden of great temptation. They were to "watch and pray" to escape temptation.

But they slept, and therefore Peter fell into temptation, and to the enemies' trap. And to make up for the spiritual sword, he wielded his literal sword!


Source:
WHY did Jesus ask His disciples to BUY A SWORD? He said: “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one”. (Luke 22:36)
 
E

elf3

Guest
You know what I am now gonna jump on the high horse and take us back to the old days. Not because I am better than anyone or know more than anyone or that I have more faith than anyone. But because I am tired of false teaching. Yeah cut me down all you want but only after you read this.

I am tired of people changing God's Word to their needs.

Who killed Goliath, Jesus turned water into grape juice, people adding to God's Word and people making scripture say what they want.

David killed Goliath, Jesus turned water into wine, gospel of Mary and Thomas are not God breathed and the Bible is pretty much self explanitory.

You got a problem with all that take it up with God not me.

You got a problem with me well good for you. I have had more insults toward me my whole life than most of you so yeah call me what you want. You think I don't have faith in God well go on thinking that cause that's not my problem it's yours.

God is Sovereign in all things and I mean all things. God has an elect, we are saved by grace through faith ect ect

Yeah believe in God's Sovereignty until it doesn't fit your needs.

If we want what's fair then we would all be in hell. Because of God's grace and Mercy we can have life with Him. You don't like it then talk to God.

This isn't a democracy it's a monarchy and God rules all!

Oh and by the way I will just keep reposting this here so sorry you gotta jump me on another forum.

:)
It's kind of funny how we are fine with God having Israel as His elect in the OT but we aren't fine with God having an elect in the NT.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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ONE MIGHT AGAIN SAY: If Christ meant the spiritual sword why did He say to "buy" a sword? He said:

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

Well, this method of speaking spiritual things in a literal way was not new. Jesus used the illustration of selling something to buy another thing even in His parables.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. (Matthew 13:44)

To get something spiritual we have to "sell" or give up the things that are an obstacle to its possession. It is only when we give up our selfish ambitions and motives we will be able the "buy" or receive the heavenly gift. Though spiritual things are free we are to "buy" it,

as the Gospel prophet, Isaiah, too, penned down the invitation of

God regarding "buying" things for free!

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

(Isaiah 55:1)

Jesus told Peter just before the temptation in the Garden to strength his brethren later when he got converted. And when the apostle got converted he admonished God's people to give much attention to the sword, which he lacked-the Word of God. He wrote:

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts. (2 Peter 1:19)

Are we carrying the sword everyday? We need to! But not the literal sword that Peter once carried, but:

The sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Ephesians 6:17)

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)


Source:
WHY did Jesus ask His disciples to BUY A SWORD? He said: “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one”. (Luke 22:36)
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Side Note: Oh, and I want to add that I believe Hebrews 4:12 is in reference to the three major Words mentioned in Scripture.

#1. The Living Word of God (Jesus, second person of the Godhead).
#2. The Spoken Word of God.
#3. The Written Word of God (i.e. the Scriptures).

For I believe God's Word (Whether spoken or written down) conveys the heart and mind of the Living Word. All three words can divide asunder the soul and spirit. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God; And it is the Living Word who saves you spiritually.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest


Do you think that when some one stands trial in a court that our Lord has more respect for the family that forgives the murderer who killed their family member, or the family that wants nothing but him put to death ?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Side Note: Oh, and I want to add that I believe Hebrews 4:12 is in reference to the three major Words mentioned in Scripture.

#1. The Living Word of God (Jesus, second person of the Godhead).
#2. The Spoken Word of God.
#3. The Written Word of God (i.e. the Scriptures).

For I believe God's Word (Whether spoken or written down) conveys the heart and mind of the Living Word. All three words can divide asunder the soul and spirit. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God; And it is the Living Word who saves you spiritually.
Jesus is our pearl of great price.

Buy a sword.

The written Scriptures testify of Jesus Christ.

The Living Word always abides with the written Word of God.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Jesus is our pearl of great price.

Buy a sword.

The written Scriptures testify of Jesus Christ.

The Living Word always abides with the written Word of God.
It is funny how those who debated with us have not answered my question that I have now posted twice.
 
J

JamesMcClay

Guest
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Jesus time and again rebuked his disciples for taking his words in the natural and NOT UNDERSTANDING what H e was really saying.

He that hath no sword [does not have the word of God in his heart] let him sell his garment [his disobedient lifestyle] and buy one [le t the word of God be established in his heart through meditation and prayer]

As for actual pacifism, why are you people continually looking for some law to follow to make yourself righteous. Seek The Lord about EVERYTHING and let Him lead you. He might even break some of your religios thoughts about "right" and wrong.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
What you have failed to take into account young man is the immutability of God (e.g. God does not change) which is clearly taught throughout Scripture. For example, in Malachi 3:6 God affirms, "I the Lord do not change."

God's moral law (e.g. morality) is everlasting and an extension of His very character. This is why it's a sin to murder under the old covenant and a sin to murder under the new covenant and preventing a murderer from murdering even if you need to take his life to accomplish it is justifiable under both the new covenant and the old covenant.

Which, of course, is why the eminent Biblical scholar and theologian Gleason L. Archer PhD wrote in the Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties:

"How could God be called 'good' if He forbade His people to protect their wives from ravishment and strangulation by drunken marauders, or to resist invaders who have come to pick up their children and dash out their brains against the wall? No policy would give freer rein to wickedness and crime than a complete surrender of the right of self-defense on the part of the law-abiding members of society.

No more effective way of promoting the cause of Satan and the powers of hell could be devised than depriving law-abiding citizens of all right of self-defense. It is hard to imagine how any deity could be thought 'good' who would ordain such a policy of supine surrender to evil as that advocated by pacifism.

All possibility of an ordered society would be removed on the abolition of any sort of police force. No nation could retain its liberty or preserve the lives of its citizens if it were prevented from maintaining any sort of army for its defense. It is therefore incumbent on a 'good God' to include the right of self-defense as the prerogative of His people. He would not be good at all if He were to turn the world over to the horrors of unbridled cruelty perpetrated by violent and bloody criminals or the unchecked aggression of invading armies.

Not only is a proper and responsible policy of self-defense taught by Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, but there were occasions when God even commissioned His people to carry out judgment on corrupt and degenerate heathen nations and the complete extermination of cities like Jericho (cf. the article on "Was Joshua justified in exterminating the population of Jericho?" in connection with Joshua 6:21). The rules of war laid down in Deuteronomy 20 represented a control of justice, fairness, and kindness in the use of the sword, and, as such, they truly did reflect the goodness of God."

Honestly, it looks like the devil has deceived and nullified you to thumb sucking on the sidelines so he can accomplish his objective in perpetuating violence in the world without opposition from you.

"Like a trampled spring and a polluted well Is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked." -Proverbs 25:26

^ "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." -2 Timothy 3:16.

But then he apparently has deceived you that all scripture is not useful if it's the old testament as well even though that's obviously not true and the Bible itself states that it's not true.

But not me. Self-defense to protect life, prevent actual bodily harm, and to secure righteousness in the world is legitimized in both the old and new covenant scripture.

Which is why Jesus permitted his disciples to own swords and use them in legitimate self-defense when necessary. (e.g. necessary) though Jesus Himself did not have any need for one as He could call down twelve legions of angels if He so desired.

I find it interesting that as Jesus was being arrested He spoke with the supernatural power of God in such a powerful way that His voice so totally overwhelmed the soldiers that they swayed backward and fell to the ground (John 18:6).

This accomplished several things but primarily it created a situation in which the soldiers were so put off by this demonstration of supernatural power that His disciples could leave the garden unharmed with their weapons in hand to use in legitimate self-defense against highway men, etc... if the need arose (and maybe it did) as Jesus was now physically separating from them to fulfill his prophesied cosmic mission at Golgotha.

Jesus never instructed his followers to never resist evil in the physical world. His entire ministry is at odds with such a preposterous idea in both worlds. He is, rather warned against responding to evil in kind by letting the oppressor set the terms of our opposition and living literally by the sword instead of merely appropriating it as a tool subjected to the wisdom of God.

Why the right cheek? A blow by the right fist in that right-handed world would land on the left cheek of the opponent. To strike the right cheek with the fist would require using the left hand, but in that society the left hand was used only for unclean tasks. As the Dead Sea Scrolls specify, even to gesture with the left hand at Qumran carried the penalty of ten days penance and to strike someone with it was an exorbitant fine. What's being communicated here is not the threat of bodily injury but rather of insult.

The intention is not to injure but to humiliate, to put someone in his or her place. One normally did not strike a peer in this way, and if one did the fine was exorbitant in that place and time. A backhand slap was the normal way of admonishing inferiors. Masters backhanded slaves; husbands, wives; parents, children; men, women; Romans, Jews.

Of course, we don't want to start a fight to death or blood feud because someone insulted us. That; however, does not translate to Jesus ordering us to allow ourselves, our loved ones, and every innocent person on the planet to be victimized, robbed, assaulted, raped, enslaved and murdered by wicked people. Grow up. The Bible teaches the opposite.

God permits life taking in self-defense ( Exod. 22:2 ), in capital punishment ( Gen. 9:6 ), and in just war (cf. Gen. 14:14–20 ). And when there is a theocratic command to do so, as in the case of Israel and the Canaanites, its moral justification is vouchsafed by God’s sovereignty.

In the New Testament, Jesus Himself nowhere circumvents the responsibility of the Christian to kill if necessary in the legitimate protection of his own life or family. In fact Jesus clarifies this in his Matthew 5:21 teaching has he chose a distinctive word (phoneuo) which means to murder not kill. Thayer (p. 657) states, it means "to commit murder." W.E. Vine (p. 291) states, "Pheneuo, to murder, akin tophoneus, a murderer." Etc... universal agreement on word usage.

I hope if I'm ever in a life and death situation, you're not anywhere around. I need dependable people in such situations, not thumb suckers whom the devil has deceived to such an extent they are totally useless. No offense intended.


I understand the difference between murder, revenge, and self defense. I realize that the Law of Moses did not consider self defense as murder (Exodus 22:2). But we are not under the Law of Moses anymore. There is no priesthood or Temple for you to offer sacrifices to anymore. The Temple veil has been torn. We are not to put new wine into old wine skins. The New Testament tells us in Romans 12:21 to not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

As for the passsages you brought up: Well, the New Testament passages you quoted are taken out of context to fit a meaning that is not what you say it means. The "strong man" in Luke 11:21 is in reference to Satan and or his minions. The "stronger one" who overcomes him is Jesus. This passage is not talking about the justification of physical war or self defense but it is talking about Jesus' power to cast out Satan. Romans 13:4 is not in reference to the believer but it is in reference to the unbelieving nations and authorities that can be God's ministering hand of justice and order. This is not talking about believers being ministers of justice. Nowhere does it say that. As for Luke 22:36: I will address that in my next post.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Jesus time and again rebuked his disciples for taking his words in the natural and NOT UNDERSTANDING what H e was really saying.

He that hath no sword [does not have the word of God in his heart] let him sell his garment [his disobedient lifestyle] and buy one [le t the word of God be established in his heart through meditation and prayer]
I agree.

As for actual pacifism, why are you people continually looking for some law to follow to make yourself righteous. Seek The Lord about EVERYTHING and let Him lead you. He might even break some of your religios thoughts about "right" and wrong.
While I am a pacificist now, I will not be a pacificist when I return in spirit to follow Jesus into battle at His 2nd Coming. Also, we are not to go beyond what is written within Scripture. Taking one or two verses out of the New Testament out of context is not a way to build a proper doctrine in Scripture. There is no command in the New Testament telling us to render evil for evil. We never seen any of the apostles employ self defense tactics and fight those they were preaching the gospel to. Jesus was our example; And He suffered and persecuted so as to be our substitute. He asked the Father to forgive those who had him crucified. He told us to love our enemies and to not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Steven also followed this example. He did not try and pick up the stones and throw them back at his attackers. Steven desired God to not hold their stoning of him against them. This is the love of God.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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What you have failed to take into account young man is the immutability of God (e.g. God does not change) which is clearly taught throughout Scripture. For example, in Malachi 3:6 God affirms, "I the Lord do not change."

God's moral law (e.g. morality) is everlasting and an extension of His very character. This is why it's a sin to murder under the old covenant and a sin to murder under the new covenant and preventing a murderer from murdering even if you need to take his life to accomplish it is justifiable under both the new covenant and the old covenant.
Actually, I want to give you a big hug right now. Many folks just don't get the basics. God is good and His people shine forth His goodness from within their lives. This is an eternal goodness. Morally centered. For God has eternal moral laws. Yet, some people don't believe there are eternal moral laws. Some people believe God even allows His people to sin and still be saved. This can be a little frustrating to me because I grew up with a very strong sense of justice and morals from reading comic books. I wanted to be a super hero when I was young. So I believe in always in doing what is right and good in every situation.

But I don't believe killing in self defense (Which is not murder) is an eternal moral law. I say this because Jesus taught to emulate Him (His life). What was Jesus' life all about? Laying down his life so as to save other people. It was about sacrifice of oneself in love to other people. Taking the life of another to save another is not the same as laying down your life to save others. Putting your life on the line in trusting God to tell others about the love of God is what Jesus did. Jesus (Second person of the Godhead) put his trust within the Father to tell others about the love of the Father. That they could have eternal life by His death (crucifixion) and life (resurrection). Jesus did not send another to die for us. Jesus did not have to kill someone else so as to save us. He loved us so much that He was willing to die in our place Himself. God did that for me. What love. What mercy. What goodness has the Lord shown us. What an example He set for us to emulate.

So if you are to blame me, blame me for conforming to the image of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
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Ella85

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
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This thread has without doubt the most disgustingly twisted doctrine I've ever read. As in, makes me physically ill. I just picture a little girl being kidnapped and beaten, and in her fear she looks around hopefully for her father. She spots him and for just a second her eyes show strength knowing he will protect her. Only.. He doesn't.. Her heart breaks and the fear returns, but this time it's worse than before, she has been betrayed and her hope is lost. This is stupid, callous and an epic failure on every side. I've never been ashamed of my brethren before.. I am utterly ashamed.
I agree 100%

And thank you for wording it in such a way where people may actually envision the reality of these evil acts.

- Talk is cheap sitting behind a computer, but when you are confronted by such cruel and hateful beings then see how you react........ God will most definitely put you to the test.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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As for God being unchanging in being a righteous judge and executing justice: As I said before, authorities in power, such as the military and the police (Who are primarily unsaved unbelievers) are God's ministers of justice. For to go against the good authority of one's nation (i.e. an authority that does not conflict with God's authority or laws) they are in rebellion against God because God has allowed for all nations to come into power. This is what Romans 13 talks about.
 

Ella85

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
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I do not tempt the Lord my God. I am not out to put myself in a situation that will put God's power to the test. God will bring me the challenges that I am to face in His time and choosing. God will lead me where to go to preach and to minister and to help and to even suffer for His Kingdom for His glory.
And don't be surprised in the near future that you might be put in a situation where you may have to defend someone's life.

God always gives us challenges and uses people to do His will.

If you are put in this situation.........don't say we didn't tell you so.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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This thread has without doubt the most disgustingly twisted doctrine I've ever read. As in, makes me physically ill. I just picture a little girl being kidnapped and beaten, and in her fear she looks around hopefully for her father. She spots him and for just a second her eyes show strength knowing he will protect her. Only.. He doesn't.. Her heart breaks and the fear returns, but this time it's worse than before, she has been betrayed and her hope is lost. This is stupid, callous and an epic failure on every side. I've never been ashamed of my brethren before.. I am utterly ashamed.
I would not do nothing to save this child if I was around. I would try and rescue her. If I was attacked, I would try and wrestle my attackers off of us and or run with this girl so as to escape. I would pray. I rebuke them in Jesus' name. I would call the cops. That is not doing nothing. I would do everything in my power to help resolve the situation that the Lord has set for me to do. I am not above my Lord to disobey His commands and start killing everyone left and right with an AK-47. I am not the Punisher. I am more like Captain America (in the comics) after he was thawed out of the ice. Cap carries a shield. He can use it as an offensive weapon but it doesn't kill people.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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And don't be surprised in the near future that you might be put in a situation where you may have to defend someone's life.

God always gives us challenges and uses people to do His will.

If you are put in this situation.........don't say we didn't tell you so.
See my recent post. Post #676.
 

Ella85

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
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That is a play on words. You are judge, jury, and executioner if you shoot somebody.
Not all situations have to result in death. How about giving him a good whack in the nuts or a blow to the leg to bring him down.
 

Ella85

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
1,414
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How is loving people and not desiring to kill people and trusting in God sickening? Do you believe God is powerless? I don't. Do you believe God can save? I can. Do you believe you need a gun or your fists? I don't because God is so much more powerful than these things and He doesn't need me to be his police force. God has armies of angels to protect and to serve for Him.
ummmmmm...........I can think of many scriptures where God used men to fight battles...........errr hello........

Answer me this.......

WHY DID HE USE MEN TO FIGHT BATTLES<<<<<<<<<<<

WHY DID GOD NOT FIGHT THE BATTLES HIMSELF<<<<<<<<<<<<<

???