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I've suggested non-lethal force in my previous replies. Apparently he's stuck on the thought that you have to KILL with a gun in order to stop someone from harming another person. A good whack in the balls would DEFINITELY bring somebody down to their knees, though!! LOL!! 
I would like to try that one day
HAHAHHAA
First, I am not sure you understand, while I may be a pacifist now (Because that is what my Lord commands me to be under the New Testament), I will not be a pacifist when I return in spirit form in following Jesus Christ into battle at His 2nd Coming.
Second, I am not against what happened in the Old Testament at all. I believe God commanded the eradication of men, women, and children who were evil and extremely sinful who were going to hurt the Israelites both physically and spiritually. But God does not operate exclusively thru the nation of Israel like He once did, though. There is no chosen nation that is carrying out God's judgments anymore. There is no more priesthood or a temple for us to sacrifice animals to anymore. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice. The Temple veil has been torn and the Gentiles do not have to become Israelites to be in favor with God.
Anyways, as for your question:
Q: Why did God use men to fight battles?
A: For the same reason God allowed men to be blessed with great wealth in the Old Testament (But not in the New Testament). It was to show that God is rewarder to those who seek after Him (in the fact that they could see His blessings) and that God showed his people that He cared about them in receiving justice when evil was done against them and or was a threat to their good way of life.
Q: Why did God not fight the battles Himself?
A: God actually was the One who made them to win their battles or not. If the Israelites were not in favor with the Lord, they would lose battles and be conquered. If the Israelites were right with God, they would win battles and have major victories. But God did on many other occasions fight the battles without using His people as an arm of justice, too. God used a global flood to destroy the wickedness that filled the entire planet. Hezekiah prayed for protection against an army (whereby they had no hope of surviving on their own power); And a Messenger of the Lord came and destroyed the entire army that was against them. There are many many more examples of this, too. However, one thing you won't find in the New Testament is Jesus and the apostles fighting their enemies, though. Another thing you will not find is a doctrine or teaching on how the believer is supposed to behave in the art of war, either. No commands on self defense. Nothing. On the contrary, Jesus said love your enemies; And Paul said be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Violence doesn't sound like overcoming evil with good (If you ask me).
Second, I am not against what happened in the Old Testament at all. I believe God commanded the eradication of men, women, and children who were evil and extremely sinful who were going to hurt the Israelites both physically and spiritually. But God does not operate exclusively thru the nation of Israel like He once did, though. There is no chosen nation that is carrying out God's judgments anymore. There is no more priesthood or a temple for us to sacrifice animals to anymore. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice. The Temple veil has been torn and the Gentiles do not have to become Israelites to be in favor with God.
Anyways, as for your question:
Q: Why did God use men to fight battles?
A: For the same reason God allowed men to be blessed with great wealth in the Old Testament (But not in the New Testament). It was to show that God is rewarder to those who seek after Him (in the fact that they could see His blessings) and that God showed his people that He cared about them in receiving justice when evil was done against them and or was a threat to their good way of life.
Q: Why did God not fight the battles Himself?
A: God actually was the One who made them to win their battles or not. If the Israelites were not in favor with the Lord, they would lose battles and be conquered. If the Israelites were right with God, they would win battles and have major victories. But God did on many other occasions fight the battles without using His people as an arm of justice, too. God used a global flood to destroy the wickedness that filled the entire planet. Hezekiah prayed for protection against an army (whereby they had no hope of surviving on their own power); And a Messenger of the Lord came and destroyed the entire army that was against them. There are many many more examples of this, too. However, one thing you won't find in the New Testament is Jesus and the apostles fighting their enemies, though. Another thing you will not find is a doctrine or teaching on how the believer is supposed to behave in the art of war, either. No commands on self defense. Nothing. On the contrary, Jesus said love your enemies; And Paul said be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Violence doesn't sound like overcoming evil with good (If you ask me).
They are living as Christ had lived. They are conforming to His image. For Paul says this,
"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,"
Still not sure what I am talking about? Here is really good animated short video that I feel speaks to the topic at hand:
[video=youtube;j3lwsOPEpMw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lwsOPEpMw[/video]
Still not sure what I am talking about? Here is really good animated short video that I feel speaks to the topic at hand:
[video=youtube;j3lwsOPEpMw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lwsOPEpMw[/video]
Yes He wiped out the world with the flood, no doubt God can and will cause destruction on earth...
Point being - God used MEN to fight battles. The bible is not going to teach to deliberately kill someone as it would of course be going against its word. Although, as a Christian and as a true child of the Lord, it is undeniable that when the Lord says ACT you need to ACT!
You think that if you were placed in a situation where you are walking down a dark street and coincidentally you witness a young woman being raped you would not stop to think to yourself.......
1. I am a child of God and the Lord will use me to do His will here on earth.
2. God protects me in all circumstances and if I chose to act upon what I see in front of me I know that He will favour ME.
3. That you were meant to be there, at that time, and at that place...and He chose YOU
You don't. Jesus will return one day and destroy all those remaining evil nations that have refused to repent. For now, Jesus is allowing space or time for more people to repent of their evil deeds. The church is not Israel. They are not God's army of justice like the Israelites once were. Nowhere do we see God commanding the apostles to destroy evil nations. Why? Because Jesus came to save and not to judge. Jesus commanded us to go to all nations and preach the gospel making disciples of all nations. He did not command us to kill them but to make disciples out of them.
I already been over this already a dozen times.
#1. I would try and stop the attacker by some non violent means by either wrestling them or providing some kind of distraction to draw them away from my family.
#2. I would also pray for God for protection just as Hezekiah prayed for protection against an entire invading army (Where they had no hope to survive unless God intervened).
#3. I would rebuke them in the name of Jesus Christ. For there is power in the name of Jesus Christ. For there is a reason why you ask things in the Lord's name.
#4. I would call God's ministers. Sort of like me praying for God to send angels to protect me and one my angels (Under God's permission) destroys one my enemies. Who are these ministers? They are the police. I can call the police (Not hitmen) so as to bring order to the situation. For the military and the police (who are primarily unbelievers) are God's ministers of justice just as Assyria was a rod of anger against Israel when they rebelled against God with their sinful ways. See Romans 13.
I already been over this already a dozen times.
#1. I would try and stop the attacker by some non violent means by either wrestling them or providing some kind of distraction to draw them away from my family.
#2. I would also pray for God for protection just as Hezekiah prayed for protection against an entire invading army (Where they had no hope to survive unless God intervened).
#3. I would rebuke them in the name of Jesus Christ. For there is power in the name of Jesus Christ. For there is a reason why you ask things in the Lord's name.
#4. I would call God's ministers. Sort of like me praying for God to send angels to protect me and one my angels (Under God's permission) destroys one my enemies. Who are these ministers? They are the police. I can call the police (Not hitmen) so as to bring order to the situation. For the military and the police (who are primarily unbelievers) are God's ministers of justice just as Assyria was a rod of anger against Israel when they rebelled against God with their sinful ways. See Romans 13.
E
I'm confused how people can look at this thread and there is one side that is constantly pointing to Christ and standing on His promises and there is the other side that is constantly pointing to themselves and their fists, equivalating prayer and rebuking demons to doing nothing (basically saying that prayer is impotent or ineffective when push comes to shove), talking about how they would beat the mess out of people and just lose control if something happened that is evil and answer it again with the same evil....and they can look at these two sides and say that the latter side is more Christ-like. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I can see theoretically believing in self defense and defending the innocent (when put in those terms), but after reading some of the satanic stuff people have written here about just going crazy, becoming bear-like, and ripping people to shreds or beating them bloody or killing them in cold blood, I don't see how anyone can walk away from this thread (after reading all) and conclude that Christ supports such insanity.
I can see theoretically believing in self defense and defending the innocent (when put in those terms), but after reading some of the satanic stuff people have written here about just going crazy, becoming bear-like, and ripping people to shreds or beating them bloody or killing them in cold blood, I don't see how anyone can walk away from this thread (after reading all) and conclude that Christ supports such insanity.
And when the Roman soldiers and guards broke into our homes and arrested us and placed us on crosses, boiled us in oil, fed us to lions, what did we do? We prayed for Rome. We hailed Caesar as our temporal and secular leader, but Christ was our true King. We paid our taxes. We died willingly.
You want to defend the world's ugliness because you believe that the world can only be stopped through worldly means. We are called to suffer. We were told that we were lambs before the slaughter. What would you have us become? Murderers and killers, who are trained to kill because a superior was told by a superior who answers to a secular power? I'm sorry, that's not the way I see it. I honor those who went to war. They have been as close to hell as humanly possible in this life, and they have come back. And most of the time, they don't come back whole. But they come back heroes. However, even as I honor them, thank them, and seek to aid and comfort them, I will not become one of them. Because that is not what I was called for.
You want to defend the world's ugliness because you believe that the world can only be stopped through worldly means. We are called to suffer. We were told that we were lambs before the slaughter. What would you have us become? Murderers and killers, who are trained to kill because a superior was told by a superior who answers to a secular power? I'm sorry, that's not the way I see it. I honor those who went to war. They have been as close to hell as humanly possible in this life, and they have come back. And most of the time, they don't come back whole. But they come back heroes. However, even as I honor them, thank them, and seek to aid and comfort them, I will not become one of them. Because that is not what I was called for.
Everyone here has to just stop and listen to what I am saying. You hear the word "Pacificist" and you got all these wrong ideas in your head. I am not against doing nothing to protect somebody. I will do as much as I can to save a person who is being abused but in a non violent way. Aikido is a non violent form of martial arts. It uses a persons own momentum against them. While I am not a big fan of martial arts because there is a wrong spiritual aspect attached to them many times, if a Christian already happens to know Aikido, it would not be wrong for them to employ such tactics because it is non violent. I also would not hesitate to call the cops, too. Pray and rebuke them in Jesus' name.
Also, if you are going to continue your line of thinking, you have to actually post a verse from the New Testament (Not the Old Testament) that shows that New Testament believers are to fight their enemies, etc.
Also, if you are going to continue your line of thinking, you have to actually post a verse from the New Testament (Not the Old Testament) that shows that New Testament believers are to fight their enemies, etc.
Well said. A Pacifist is not "Peace at all costs." That's a coward. Those were cowards who clothed themselves in words they could not understand, and when the world heard them use the word, it stuck. Ghandi was a pacifist, but he was not Peace at all costs. It was Peace at the cost of myself. That's true pacifism. A pacifist is willing to die, if it means that the only way they can live is to give up what they believe or kill for survival. Pacifism is the way of martyrdom. Martyr, which comes from the Greek for Testimony or Testify. Those martyrs, many of our martyrs were pacifists, who chose to lay their life bare before the world and said, "Do your worst to me, because I refuse to do my worst to you."
E
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
This seems closer to what they are advocating. Wrong book though.
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
This seems closer to what they are advocating. Wrong book though.