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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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IF IF IF IF you love me you will keep my commandments.....
we all need to learn to love....

AND THAT IS DETERMINED BY:

IF, IF, IF, IF YOU WERE TRULY BORN AGAIN THE MOMENT YOU FIRST BELIEVED;

H
AVING THE LOVE OF GOD POURED INTO YOUR HEART.


Romans 5:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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AND THAT IS DETERMINED BY:

IF, IF, IF, IF YOU WERE TRULY BORN AGAIN THE MOMENT YOU FIRST BELIEVED;

H
AVING THE LOVE OF GOD POURED INTO YOUR HEART.


Romans 5:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
when do we receive the HS...



Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



it does not say ...AND THAT IS DETERMINED BY:

IF, IF, IF, IF YOU WERE TRULY BORN AGAIN THE MOMENT YOU FIRST BELIEVED;

H
AVING THE LOVE OF GOD POURED INTO YOUR HEART.


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
when do we receive the HS...



Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



it does not say ...AND THAT IS DETERMINED BY:

IF, IF, IF, IF YOU WERE TRULY BORN AGAIN THE MOMENT YOU FIRST BELIEVED;

H
AVING THE LOVE OF GOD POURED INTO YOUR HEART.


THAT is where the LOVE OF GOD comes from, FROM the Holy Spirit who also brings a sense of guilt for your sinfulness and the desire to confess it, and repent of it. IT IS THAT LOVE OF GOD that ONLY comes when HOLY SPIRIT pours it into our hearts, that produces a harvest of obediance to HIM.

Why am I so burdened to reach you peronally with this TRUTH, when I have walked away from so many others after they have rejected this Truth for the third time?
 
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THAT is where the LOVE OF GOD comes from, FROM the Holy Spirit who also brings a sense of guilt for your sinfulness and the desire to confess it, and repent of it. IT IS THAT LOVE OF GOD that ONLY comes when HOLY SPIRIT pours it into our hearts, that produces a harvest of obediance to HIM.

Why am I so burdened to reach you peronally with this TRUTH, when I have walked away from so many others after they have rejected this Truth for the third time?
what foolishness is that you are saying ...the HS does not bring guilt ....baptism is... the answer of a good conscience toward God....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are promised the HS after we repent and is baptised
Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


our burden is to learn the truth of God bro....that which you teach is doctrine of man and contrary to the word of God...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
what foolishness is that you are saying ...the HS does not bring guilt ....baptism is... the answer of a good conscience toward God....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are promised the HS after we repent and is baptised
Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


our burden is to learn the truth of God bro....that which you teach is doctrine of man and contrary to the word of God...
Then you do not know the HOLY SPIRIT. When HE came into my heart a SPOT LIGHT was put on my UTTER SINFUL LIFESTYLE. A WAVE OF GUILT washed over me, DROPPING ME TO MY KNEES, where I was plummeted into deep, deep, mourning over my sinfulness. TEARS FLOWED uncontrollably, as I cried out to HIM: "LORD FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, then you will have to come into it and run it; because I can't do it! I am making a totally mess of it!" I fell prone on my face as I continued SOBBING uncontrollably for at least another 30-45 minutes. Then I had a dream or vision: I was on my knees looking up at HIM on the Cross, Weeping and BEGGING for HIS FORGIVENESS. I KNEW every sin I ever committed was like another one pound weight added to HIM, pulling down all the more on those nails. I saw BLOOD Fall from where the nails went through HIS hands at the wrists; and the blood splashed on my forearms as I was reaching up towards HIM. The dream or vision was SO VIVID, I could feel the warmth of that blood; and I KNEW I WAS FORGIVEN OF ALL OF MY SINS. OH YES the HOLY SPIRIT came into my Heart that very NIGHT, bringing me to conviction of my sinfulness, confession, and repentence; and most importantly giving me a deep LOVE FOR HIM, my LORD, and an awareness of the great price HE paid to redeem me the SINNER.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
what foolishness is that you are saying ...the HS does not bring guilt ....baptism is... the answer of a good conscience toward God....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are promised the HS after we repent and is baptised
Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


our burden is to learn the truth of God bro....that which you teach is doctrine of man and contrary to the word of God...
I will tell you more of my Testimony, but UNDERSTAND I BELIEVE Submission to Christian Water Baptism, should be the FIRST STEP in our Christian Walk of Obedience after we have received JESUS CHRIST as LORD. I am ashamed to admit that I was not submissive to Water Baptism by immersion for several Years after the NIGHT I WAS SAVED that I just told you about. I wanted to continue to believe my infant Baptism by sprinkling had fulfilled the command to be Baptized. I hesitate ever telling that part of my Testimony, because I NEVER WANT TO ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO PUT IT OFF, like I DID.

DID I SEE GOD the HOLY SPIRIT CHANGING my life those several YEARS, that I put off being BAPTIZED by immersion in Water?

ABSOLUTELY!

HE GAVE ME hunger for HIS WORD, and good sound BIBLE TEACHING, and I wanted more, and more, and more.
SOON, I was listening to 5 or 6 hours of Bible teaching per day via Radio and the Cassette Tapes.

He took away my cigarette smoking by making them taste HORRIBLE, and put the thought in my Head. "What's Your Excuse now dummy?" And I had no more excuses and quit my pack and a half a day habit, cold turkey.

He took away my filthy mouth, just by changing me from the inside OUT, because of the Word of GOD that I was feeding on. One day I hit my thumb with a hammer accidentally, and NO CURSE WORDS CAME OUT, just "Dog Gone it!" I was shocked, and couldn't figure out exactly when that had happened.

My wife was addicted to pain pills and muscle relaxers, and HE TOOK IT AWAY in answer to prayer with NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS, and she was taking a LOT OF THEM.

Her Doctor, insisted that she check into a rehab center, and LAUGHED when we told HIM she was HEALED by the LORD, calling me either a fool or a liar. I figured out real quick that HE was not a Christian.

In the non-Christian Rehab, they made fun of her Faith, and about 5 days into it, they called me in for a Group Session, and immediately the two Counselors started making fun of our Faith. GOD THEN SHOUTED IN MY HEAD: "WALK!" I came out of that chair instantly as if it was electrified, and my muscles were responding to HIS VOICE involuntarily. I looked over at my wife and she TOO, was Standing. I asked her, "Are you ready?" She said, "YES." And we headed for the door. John one of the Counselors that was making fun of our Faith, went to the same Lutheran Church that I did. I stopped and said to John, "You and I were raised in the same Church, but I seriously doubt your faith; but I will be praying for you, and I will be praying for the rest of you TOO."; as I pointed my figure pivoting past each one in the group. Out the door we went, after grabbing my wife's things from her room. When we got to my jeep, I had a flat tire, when all I wanted was to get away from that place in a hurry. As I was changing the tire, I asked my wife. "Did you hear anything in that room?" She answered, "Just one Word - WALK!" I said, "THAT'S IT, WE ARE OUT OF HERE!"

Did GOD ever Answer my prayers for John? ABSOLUTELY! A few weeks later we ran into him buying Christian Counseling books at the Christian Book Store. He had quit his job at the non-Christian Rehab Center, and was going to open a Christian Rehab Center.

We saw many, many other prayers answered, as we continued to grow spiritually.

A dear friend, got caught up in a cult that was teaching that Jesus was a sinner. So we went to talk to her, and prayed very seriously in the parking lot first, that GOD would send angels, even Michael if necessary to drive out the evil demons from her apartment, and HE ANSWERED THAT PRAYER BIG TIME! She could not find a single one of her verses to prove that Jesus was a sinner, and was baffled as to why she could not find them. We knew that the demons were not there to lead her to those misinterpretations. Were we able to lead her out of that CULT? Sadly no, and the last time my wife talked to her, she said it was like Terry had died spiritually.

He motivated my wife and I to seek out BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH, and we found a very good one.

He continually was molding me and my wife, giving us multiple opportunities to witness.

Then one day He started putting it on my heart to move WEST, and I did not know why. We went on vacation to California, and I put in for a transfer out there, from Nebraska. I was told they would not have any openings for 5 years, but six months later I got a phone call, telling me that someone quit, and the job was mine if I wanted it. I still KNEW GOD wanted me there, and told him that I would be there in two weeks. WE HAD NO MONEY IN SAVINGS AT ALL. Still we trusted that the LORD would provide. I listed my 2 year old car for sale in the paper and on the radio and put a big sign FOR SALE in the window and parked on the street where people passing by would see it. Two days before we HAD TO LEAVE FOR CALIFORNIA, not one person had even asked about the car. That night, my neighbor was banging on my door after midnight, and reported that some kid was spinning kitties (circles) in the loose gravel out front of our apartment, and lost control. He hit my car and totaled it, and took off; though they did find him later. I got more money out of insurance than I was asking for the car on the radio and in the newspaper. We leased a new car, drove to California, paid our first and last months rent, and all utility deposits and had $90.00 left over for food until my first check came in. THE LORD PROVIDED.

A few weeks later, I was convicted of NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE TO WATER BAPTISM BY IMMERSION via one of the tapes from my Bible Teaching Church in Nebraska. The very next Sunday Evening, I was baptized, in cold tap water, because the water heater was broke down.

So WHY did GOD want this Nebraska farm boy in California? I got involved in Prison Ministry, and became a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain at Pelican Bay State Prison for 9 years, followed by 6 more years at High Desert State Prison. Did I know how to start a Prison Ministry? NO, but I KNEW HE DID!
 
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I will tell you more of my Testimony, but UNDERSTAND I BELIEVE Submission to Christian Water Baptism, should be the FIRST STEP in our Christian Walk of Obedience after we have received JESUS CHRIST as LORD. I am ashamed to admit that I was not submissive to Water Baptism by immersion for several Years after the NIGHT I WAS SAVED that I just told you about. I wanted to continue to believe my infant Baptism by sprinkling had fulfilled the command to be Baptized. I hesitate ever telling that part of my Testimony, because I NEVER WANT TO ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO PUT IT OFF, like I DID.

DID I SEE GOD the HOLY SPIRIT CHANGING my life those several YEARS, that I put off being BAPTIZED by immersion in Water?

ABSOLUTELY!

HE GAVE ME hunger for HIS WORD, and good sound BIBLE TEACHING, and I wanted more, and more, and more.
SOON, I was listening to 5 or 6 hours of Bible teaching per day via Radio and the Cassette Tapes.

He took away my cigarette smoking by making them taste HORRIBLE, and put the thought in my Head. "What's Your Excuse now dummy?" And I had no more excuses and quit my pack and a half a day habit, cold turkey.

He took away my filthy mouth, just by changing me from the inside OUT, because of the Word of GOD that I was feeding on. One day I hit my thumb with a hammer accidentally, and NO CURSE WORDS CAME OUT, just "Dog Gone it!" I was shocked, and couldn't figure out exactly when that had happened.

My wife was addicted to pain pills and muscle relaxers, and HE TOOK IT AWAY in answer to prayer with NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS, and she was taking a LOT OF THEM.

Her Doctor, insisted that she check into a rehab center, and LAUGHED when we told HIM she was HEALED by the LORD, calling me either a fool or a liar. I figured out real quick that HE was not a Christian.

In the non-Christian Rehab, they made fun of her Faith, and about 5 days into it, they called me in for a Group Session, and immediately the two Counselors started making fun of our Faith. GOD THEN SHOUTED IN MY HEAD: "WALK!" I came out of that chair instantly as if it was electrified, and my muscles were responding to HIS VOICE involuntarily. I looked over at my wife and she TOO, was Standing. I asked her, "Are you ready?" She said, "YES." And we headed for the door. John one of the Counselors that was making fun of our Faith, went to the same Lutheran Church that I did. I stopped and said to John, "You and I were raised in the same Church, but I seriously doubt your faith; but I will be praying for you, and I will be praying for the rest of you TOO."; as I pointed my figure pivoting past each one in the group. Out the door we went, after grabbing my wife's things from her room. When we got to my jeep, I had a flat tire, when all I wanted was to get away from that place in a hurry. As I was changing the tire, I asked my wife. "Did you hear anything in that room?" She answered, "Just one Word - WALK!" I said, "THAT'S IT, WE ARE OUT OF HERE!"

Did GOD ever Answer my prayers for John? ABSOLUTELY! A few weeks later we ran into him buying Christian Counseling books at the Christian Book Store. He had quit his job at the non-Christian Rehab Center, and was going to open a Christian Rehab Center.

We saw many, many other prayers answered, as we continued to grow spiritually.

A dear friend, got caught up in a cult that was teaching that Jesus was a sinner. So we went to talk to her, and prayed very seriously in the parking lot first, that GOD would send angels, even Michael if necessary to drive out the evil demons from her apartment, and HE ANSWERED THAT PRAYER BIG TIME! She could not find a single one of her verses to prove that Jesus was a sinner, and was baffled as to why she could not find them. We knew that the demons were not there to lead her to those misinterpretations. Were we able to lead her out of that CULT? Sadly no, and the last time my wife talked to her, she said it was like Terry had died spiritually.

He motivated my wife and I to seek out BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH, and we found a very good one.

He continually was molding me and my wife, giving us multiple opportunities to witness.

Then one day He started putting it on my heart to move WEST, and I did not know why. We went on vacation to California, and I put in for a transfer out there, from Nebraska. I was told they would not have any openings for 5 years, but six months later I got a phone call, telling me that someone quit, and the job was mine if I wanted it. I still KNEW GOD wanted me there, and told him that I would be there in two weeks. WE HAD NO MONEY IN SAVINGS AT ALL. Still we trusted that the LORD would provide. I listed my 2 year old car for sale in the paper and on the radio and put a big sign FOR SALE in the window and parked on the street where people passing by would see it. Two days before we HAD TO LEAVE FOR CALIFORNIA, not one person had even asked about the car. That night, my neighbor was banging on my door after midnight, and reported that some kid was spinning kitties (circles) in the loose gravel out front of our apartment, and lost control. He hit my car and totaled it, and took off; though they did find him later. I got more money out of insurance than I was asking for the car on the radio and in the newspaper. We leased a new car, drove to California, paid our first and last months rent, and all utility deposits and had $90.00 left over for food until my first check came in. THE LORD PROVIDED.

A few weeks later, I was convicted of NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE TO WATER BAPTISM BY IMMERSION via one of the tapes from my Bible Teaching Church in Nebraska. The very next Sunday Evening, I was baptized, in cold tap water, because the water heater was broke down.

So WHY did GOD want this Nebraska farm boy in California? I got involved in Prison Ministry, and became a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain at Pelican Bay State Prison for 9 years, followed by 6 more years at High Desert State Prison. Did I know how to start a Prison Ministry? NO, but I KNEW HE DID!
brother I cannot doubt what you say but your personal experience does not change the word.....you are admitting to being saved while continually and knowingly disobeying God.....you admit to being convicted of NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE TO WATER BAPTISM BY IMMERSION by a tape...not the HS...We are to submit to God not water baptism....we do it because God says to do it....The scripture says we are baptised into Christ...you put yourself into Christ without baptism......the description of baptism shows one in the position of the dead at burial...


Romans 6:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
brother I cannot doubt what you say but your personal experience does not change the word.....you are admitting to being saved while continually and knowingly disobeying God.....you admit to being convicted of NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE TO WATER BAPTISM BY IMMERSION by a tape...not the HS...We are to submit to God not water baptism....we do it because God says to do it....The scripture says we are baptised into Christ...you put yourself into Christ without baptism......the description of baptism shows one in the position of the dead at burial...


Romans 6:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;

The Word does not Change, but you have certainly mis-interpreted some of it; especially verses that refer to Spiritual Baptism into the spiritual body of Christ; which is a WORK of the HOLY SPIRIT, not some we do.

Oh that TAPE was a Sermon, teaching HIS WORD, and the Holy Spirit took those words and brought conviction to my heart.

Please COME to the TRUTH.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
. . .The scripture says we are baptised into Christ...you put yourself into Christ without baptism......the description of baptism shows one in the position of the dead at burial...


Romans 6:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
You still do not understand, and I seriously believe that is because you do not truly have the Holy Spirit in you YET.

Spiritual Baptism has NOTHING to do with the body, nor does it have anything to do with WATER.

The Greek word baptism is:

Greek NASB Number: 908
Greek Word: [FONT=&quot]βάπτισμα[/FONT]

Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]baptisma[/FONT]
Root: from 907;

Definition: (the result of<|>) a dipping or sinking:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
baptism (20).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
And the Greek word for baptized is:

Greek NASB Number: 907
Greek Word: [FONT=&quot]βαπτίζω[/FONT]

Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]baptizô[/FONT]
Root: from 911;

Definition: to dip, sink:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
Baptist (3),
baptize (9),
baptized (51),
baptizes (1),
baptizing (10),
ceremonially washed (1),
undergo (1).


New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
It literally is like the word immerse in English, however the Greek definition does NOT mention what the person or object is to be immersed into. The term is used for ANYTHING that is dipped, sunk, plunged, or immersed into something else. Here are some other ways that the word baptized can and is used in the Greek Language.

It is used to define a submarine going under the ocean.

It is used to define what you must do to cloth to dye it.

It is used to define what happens to an object that you dip in paint or lacquer to put a finishing coat on.

It is used to define what happens to objects during the platting process, such as chrome or nickel platting.

It would be used to define what happened to you if you jumped into a vat of pudding at the Factory.

It would be used to define what happened to you fell in a tank of oil at the refinery.

It would be used if you fell into a tank of flour at the flour mill and you went under the flour.

AND

It is used when you are immersed by the Holy Spirit into the spiritual Body of Christ.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
You still do not understand, and I seriously believe that is because you do not truly have the Holy Spirit in you YET.
....
It is used when you are immersed by the Holy Spirit into the spiritual Body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

By the way, VCO, your post #346 was very interesting. Thank you!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Then you do not know the HOLY SPIRIT. When HE came into my heart a SPOT LIGHT was put on my UTTER SINFUL LIFESTYLE. A WAVE OF GUILT washed over me, DROPPING ME TO MY KNEES, where I was plummeted into deep, deep, mourning over my sinfulness. TEARS FLOWED uncontrollably, as I cried out to HIM: "LORD FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, then you will have to come into it and run it; because I can't do it! I am making a totally mess of it!" I fell prone on my face as I continued SOBBING uncontrollably for at least another 30-45 minutes. Then I had a dream or vision: I was on my knees looking up at HIM on the Cross, Weeping and BEGGING for HIS FORGIVENESS. I KNEW every sin I ever committed was like another one pound weight added to HIM, pulling down all the more on those nails. I saw BLOOD Fall from where the nails went through HIS hands at the wrists; and the blood splashed on my forearms as I was reaching up towards HIM. The dream or vision was SO VIVID, I could feel the warmth of that blood; and I KNEW I WAS FORGIVEN OF ALL OF MY SINS. OH YES the HOLY SPIRIT came into my Heart that very NIGHT, bringing me to conviction of my sinfulness, confession, and repentence; and most importantly giving me a deep LOVE FOR HIM, my LORD, and an awareness of the great price HE paid to redeem me the SINNER.
Hallelujah!

Now that's the power of God I'm talking about.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
brother I cannot doubt what you say but your personal experience does not change the word.....you are admitting to being saved while continually and knowingly disobeying God.....you admit to being convicted of NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE TO WATER BAPTISM BY IMMERSION by a tape...not the HS...We are to submit to God not water baptism....we do it because God says to do it....The scripture says we are baptised into Christ...you put yourself into Christ without baptism......the description of baptism shows one in the position of the dead at burial...


Romans 6:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
Newbirth, if the power of God acting in that testimony does not light your fire, then your wood's wet.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Spiritual Baptism has NOTHING to do with the body, nor does it have anything to do with WATER.

.
It is wrong to say there is no connection between what we do and our spirit. Believing that is just as untrue as to believe that doing something without the spirit is sufficient.

It is also not right to teach that the symbolism of water is not so. Water is used symbolically all through scripture. Even at the cross, there was water and blood from Christ when pierced and it had great symbolic meaning.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
It is wrong to say there is no connection between what we do and our spirit. Believing that is just as untrue as to believe that doing something without the spirit is sufficient.

It is also not right to teach that the symbolism of water is not so. Water is used symbolically all through scripture. Even at the cross, there was water and blood from Christ when pierced and it had great symbolic meaning.

I did not draw the line, Jesus Christ did:

John 3:6-7 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

Christian Water Baptism, symbolically pictures what the Holy Spirit already did in our hearts, the moment we first genuinely believed. But the two are NOT the same thing, nor does Water Baptism produce Spiritual Baptism.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/1cor1213.htm
 
Oct 31, 2011
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I did not draw the line, Jesus Christ did:

John 3:6-7 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

Christian Water Baptism, symbolically pictures what the Holy Spirit already did in our hearts, the moment we first genuinely believed. But the two are NOT the same thing, nor does Water Baptism produce Spiritual Baptism.

Spirit Baptism - 1 Corinthians 12:13
What a twist of words!! Of course we must be born again and bring our spirit and our connection to the Lord to life. And flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. But it would be a very weak spirit if there were no results in our actions. One action result of this is agreeing to go before the body of the church and signify our baptism.

It is like our agreeing to the marriage ceremony. It is not the ceremony that makes the marriage, but if one refuses to have the ceremony it is telling the world that there is no real marriage.

I also think you are absolutely wrong when you say that the Lord is not present during the baptism.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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You still do not understand, and I seriously believe that is because you do not truly have the Holy Spirit in you YET.

Spiritual Baptism has NOTHING to do with the body, nor does it have anything to do with WATER.

The Greek word baptism is:



And the Greek word for baptized is:



It literally is like the word immerse in English, however the Greek definition does NOT mention what the person or object is to be immersed into. The term is used for ANYTHING that is dipped, sunk, plunged, or immersed into something else. Here are some other ways that the word baptized can and is used in the Greek Language.

It is used to define a submarine going under the ocean.

It is used to define what you must do to cloth to dye it.

It is used to define what happens to an object that you dip in paint or lacquer to put a finishing coat on.

It is used to define what happens to objects during the platting process, such as chrome or nickel platting.

It would be used to define what happened to you if you jumped into a vat of pudding at the Factory.

It would be used to define what happened to you fell in a tank of oil at the refinery.

It would be used if you fell into a tank of flour at the flour mill and you went under the flour.

AND

It is used when you are immersed by the Holy Spirit into the spiritual Body of Christ.


you keep claiming I don't understand....
I am asking you.... is spiritual baptism into death? are we united with Christ in the likeness of his death at spiritual baptism?
the scripture says we are buried with him through baptism...it has to be water baptism he is talking about since you say spiritual baptism has nothing to do with the body....or water
Romans 6:3-5American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
 
Mar 28, 2014
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The Word does not Change, but you have certainly mis-interpreted some of it; especially verses that refer to Spiritual Baptism into the spiritual body of Christ; which is a WORK of the HOLY SPIRIT, not some we do.

Oh that TAPE was a Sermon, teaching HIS WORD, and the Holy Spirit took those words and brought conviction to my heart.

Please COME to the TRUTH.
mis-interpreted..what??? you are changing the word again...where does it say that in the verses...the scripture says you are ignorant...where does it say you are spirit baptised into death...spirit baptism does not bring death...water baptism brings death to the old man...and rebirth of the new man vs 4 born of water and the spirit vs 4 & 5

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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mis-interpreted..what??? you are changing the word again...where does it say that in the verses...the scripture says you are ignorant...where does it say you are spirit baptised into death...spirit baptism does not bring death...water baptism brings death to the old man...and rebirth of the new man vs 4 born of water and the spirit vs 4 & 5

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
Aren't we chasing each other round in circles, on the same subject on two different threads?

This here is YET another proof that you are unable to understand the spiritual truths in these verses in Romans. That is why a seriously doubt if you were ever, truly born again.

Romans 6:3-5
6:3-4. Paul explained in more detail the spiritual basis for his abrupt declaration, "We died to sin" (v. 2). Whether the Roman Christians knew it or not, the fact is that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death. The question here is whether Paul had in mind Spirit baptism (1 Cor. 12:13) or water baptism. Some object to taking Romans 6:3 as Spirit baptism because that verse speaks of being "baptized into Christ" whereas 1 Corinthians 12:13 speaks of Spirit baptism placing the believer into Christ's body. Of course, both are true: the believer is "baptized" (placed into) Christ and also into the body of Christ, and both are done by the Holy Spirit.
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Others take Romans 6:3 to refer to water baptism, but the problem with that is that it seems to suggest that baptism saves. However, the New Testament consistently denies baptismal regeneration, presenting water baptism as a public attestation to an accomplished spiritual work (cf., e.g., Acts 10:44-48; 16:29-33). The spiritual reality Paul spoke of is that by faith believers are "baptized (placed) into Christ" and thereby are united and identified with Him. This spiritual reality is then graphically witnessed to and pictured by believers' baptism in water. The one baptism (by water) is the visible picture of the spiritual truth of the other baptism (identification with Christ; cf. Gal. 3:27, "baptized into Christ... clothed with Christ").
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This is supported by the statement, We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death. Christ's burial shows that He actually died (cf. 1 Cor. 15:3-4). Christians' "burial" with Christ shows that they in fact died with Him to their former sinful ways of living. The purpose of their identification with Christ in His death and burial is that just as Christ was raised from the dead (lit., "out from dead ones"; cf. Rom. 4:24; 8:11) through the glory (a synonym for God's power; cf. Eph. 1:19; Col. 2:12) of the Father, we too may live a new life (lit., "so also in newness of life we should walk about"). The Greek word "newness" ([FONT=&quot]kainotēi[/FONT]) speaks of life that has a new or fresh quality. The resurrection of Jesus was not just a resuscitation; it was a new form of life. In the same way the spiritual lives of believers in Jesus have a new, fresh quality. Also, a believer's identification with Jesus Christ in His resurrection, besides being the start of new spiritual life now, is also the guarantee of physical resurrection.
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This work of God at salvation in identifying a believer with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection—thus separating him from sin's power and giving him a new quality of life—is the basis of the Holy Spirit's continuing work in sanctification.
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The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.
 
C

chubbena

Guest
I try not to sin out of respect to God, I try to keep his commandments because I want to be obedient to his word, I am not trying to be saved by them anyone who tries will fail horribly.
Why not He is our Father and we are His sons and daughters?
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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The worst of hell will not go beyond what justice requires. God often punishes less than sin / iniquity deserves but never more. God's mercies and gifts are something that we on earth enjoy every day. Sin is sinful.
 
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