Contradiction of WORDS

[Elin]

A completely free gift with no strings attached?

Is that a new concept to you?

Do you give gifts with strings attached, and if the conditions are not met, do you take the gift back?

That's not a gift, that's a loan.

Why are you trying to rewrite the English language in its meaning of "free gift"?

 

[Elin]

Why should we inconvenience ourselves, we're saved anyway no matter what we do or think.

seriously dude, you don't have to hold eternal condemnation & hellfire over my head before i'm willing to do some work. gratitude & love are motivation enough.
are we called to be sons & daughters or wage-slaves?

That is such repugnant thinking.

A heart that knows and loves God cannot feel that way.

 

[Elin]

And I ask again, what happens to one who does not obey God?

Those who live a lifestyle of disobedience are not saved, and receive the consequences of their unbelief.

It's not complicated.

 

[Elin]

You see, this is what you have to,resort,to to,avoid answering tough questions. It is the biggest lie,on this forum. More times than I can count I have said that Christ is our savior,He has done His part. But we also,have our part to do to accept His Grace.
Salvation has always been conditional. Does,rhat mean we are earning our salvation? How silly.

The only condition of salvation is faith, which is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:3),
making salvation free.

In the English language, "free" means just that.

Stop trying to redefine the meaning of words to make Scripture fit your false theology.

 

[Elin]

Funny cause I have been saying that about the word
"free" on another forum but
I guess that word doesn't mean what I think it means. I never knew that free costs something. That's actually kinda good cause now I can collect up on all the free stuff I have given away. I figure that's about 100,000$ nice round number. Can we collect on free advice? OK add 100,000$. Sweet I need some money anyway.

They're peddling pure baloney to get the Scriptures to agree with their contra-Biblical theology.

"Free" means just that.

 

[Elin]

If it's not an example of salvation, it cannot apply.

These blanket statements that simply ignore scripture do nothing for my understanding. Wanna impress me? Show me the scriptures.

Try reading the context of the posts, that might help.

You handle posts here like you handle the Scriptures. . .out of context,
and for the same reason, to support your contra-Biblical views.

 

[Alligator]

And I ask again, what happens to one who does not obey God?

Those who live a lifestyle of disobedience are not saved, and receive the consequences of their unbelief.

It's not complicated.

No it isn't, and neither is Mark 16:15-16

 

[jdbear]

Try reading the context of the posts, that might help.

You handle posts here like you handle the Scriptures. . .out of context,
and for the same reason, to support your contra-Biblical views.

There are examples, sound reasons, of how God causes people to believe. I don't see any examples from scripture how God chooses people based on the eenie meeny miney moe system.

 

[dcontroversal]

A completely free gift with no strings attached?

That is what it teaches....FREE GIFT of eternal LIFE applied unto all who exercise faith into the PERFECT FAITH of JESUS which is what saves us......again...people who trust into their works, their (strings) their water for salvation miss the fact that the eternal salvation of our SPIRIT is based upon the WORK that Jesus accomplished on the cross......Salvation stands alone and is BY BIRTH from the HOLY SPIRIT which has placed the stamp of APPROVAL upon us....is a ONE TIME for ETERNITY ACT, as it is the SPIRIT that has been born of GOD, cannot sin, does not sin and is eternally sealed by the Holy Spirit itself. The SANCTIFICATION of our lives is an ongoing process based upon following the word of God and applying it in our lives....there would be no probable cause for CHASTISMENT in a believers life IF salvation was based upon and or maintained by our works.

Faith is a SPIRITUAL GIFT that is GIVEN FREELY<----God has dealt to EVERY MAN a MEASURE of FAITH.....IF you BELIEVE IN YOUR MIND (heart) that GOD has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved....WITH the MIND man believes unto righteousness....THY FAITH has made the WHOLE...WHOSOEVER that BELIEVETH on HIM IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

You do speak English and understand ENGLISH words right....such as FREE, BELIEVETH, IS HAVING, EVERLASTING, ETERNAL LIFE.

I KNOW that WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH IT SHALL BE FOREVER! WHATSOEVER means WHATSOEVER (anything, everything, all things) WE cannot labor for that which has been given FREELY!

 

[jdbear]

"And Jesus went about...teaching...and healing...and His fame went throughout all Syria...and there followed Him great multitudes...Mt.4:23-25

Faith...because of God.

 

[Elin]

Those who live a lifestyle of disobedience are not saved, and receive the consequences of their unbelief.

It's not complicated.

No it isn't, and neither is Mark 16:15-16

Agreed. . . .

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by dcontroversal,
I KNOW that WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH IT SHALL BE FOREVER!...

Hey brother, to go off track a little, have you ever thought about how Solomons words apply to the physical universe?

"...nothing can be added to it, or anything taken from it. God did this so that we would fear Him." Ecc.3:14

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

 

[john832]

Is that a new concept to you?

Do you give gifts with strings attached, and if the conditions are not met, do you take the gift back?

That's not a gift, that's a loan.

Why are you trying to rewrite the English language in its meaning of "free gift"?

So a completely free gift? Would you say that Hitler was given that gift?

 

[john832]

Those who live a lifestyle of disobedience are not saved, and receive the consequences of their unbelief.

It's not complicated.

???, then how is salvation a completely free gift? If someone is living a lifestyle of disobedience and they do not receive this "free" gift, then there must be some conditions on this "free" gift, else their lifestyle would not matter.

 

[john832]

Hey brother, to go off track a little, have you ever thought about how Solomons words apply to the physical universe?

"...nothing can be added to it, or anything taken from it. God did this so that we would fear Him." Ecc.3:14

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

Are you sure about the statement "Matter cannot be created or destroyed."? That would imply an eternity of existence for matter...

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey brother, to go off track a little, have you ever thought about how Solomons words apply to the physical universe?

"...nothing can be added to it, or anything taken from it. God did this so that we would fear Him." Ecc.3:14

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

Yes, and that does not change the statement and it being qualified by WHATSOEVER....as whatsoever means exactly that....whatsoever and GOD does this so men will fear HIM...NOTHING added and or subtracted...Saved will be saved for ever and LOST will cook forever.....because whatsoever God does will be eternal.....and at the same time....if God chooses to destroy and or re-make...it is within the scope of his ability and power.....!

 

[jdbear]

Are you sure about the statement "Matter cannot be created or destroyed."? That would imply an eternity of existence for matter...

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Yes brother, Im sure. What God made has the appearance of being eternal:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,*even*his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Ro.1:20

 

[Elin]

Are you sure about the statement "Matter cannot be created or destroyed."?
That would imply an eternity of existence for matter...

Yes brother, Im sure. What God made has the appearance of being eternal:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,*even*his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Ro.1:20

Yes, that is a principle of atomic physics.

Matter can be converted into energy, and energy can be converted into matter.

But in this back and forth conversion process, nothing is either created or destroyed.

The atoms never change, just rearrange and recombine.

So matter is "eternal" until God annihilates it.

 

[jdbear]

Yes, and that does not change the statement and it being qualified by WHATSOEVER....as whatsoever means exactly that....whatsoever and GOD does this so men will fear HIM...NOTHING added and or subtracted...Saved will be saved for ever and LOST will cook forever.....because whatsoever God does will be eternal.....and at the same time....if God chooses to destroy and or re-make...it is within the scope of his ability and power.....!

Brother, I take the scriptures to mean that God ordained salvation by people coming to Him of the free will He has given to every human being. If you agree, we are on the same page. If you dont, we can agree to disagree.

 

[SeaBass]

Abraham was saved the same way as Naaman, as for that matter, you and I are saved the same way as Abraham and Naaman.

Was Abraham saved by obeying God and leaving his homeland to a country God would show him? Was Abraham saved by anything he outwardly did in obeying God (works)? No, certainly not! I know this because the Bible says, "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness." In like manner was Naaman also saved. It was his belief that saved him, not anything he did.

Yes, Abraham was saved by an OBEDIENT faith..."By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham..obeyed.

Could Abraham DISOBEYED God and not go out and be saved? No. Would Abraham received the blessings of God if he had not obeyed? No.

I believe the question was, would Naaman have been saved if he hadn't dipped in the Jordan? No he would not. It would have proved his unbelief. But when Naaman made the decision (faith) to do as the prophet of God instructed, he was saved. Naaman was saved before he even stepped into the water, as Abraham was saved before he ever left the Ur of Chaldees to the land promised by God. It is by faith that we are saved, not of works.

We work because we are saved, not to get saved. Paul makes this clear in Rom. 11:6, he makes a sharp contrast between faith and works:

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Grace cannot be mixed with works or works mixed with grace. They are contrary to one another.

It is impossible for Naaman to have been saved by faith and dipping in the Jordan. It was his faith alone that saved him.

My issue about Naaman did not have to do with his salvation but was to show an example of grace and works, in how God's grace requires works but doing those works do not earn God's grace.

Naaman is an example that proves 1) God can attach conditions to His free gifts. and 2) working to meet those conditions can never earn the free gift.

When Naaman went a dipped in the river 7 times, did his work in dipping merit his own healing therefore grace had nothing to do with it?

Was Abraham earning his salvation when he obeyed God by working in leaving his home land and kindred? No.