What does the Law REALLY say?

[Elin]

Yes they do picture sin but are also sound health practices. God didn't give these Laws for people to practice without a connection to daily living. They are just plain sound practice or do you believe that dumping sewage into our drinking water is a healthful practice?

Was there a Levitical law regarding human waste?

 

[john832]

Just for fun let's read Lev 15:22

Lev 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

It doesn't say cast into the Lake of Fire, it says the person who does this washes himself and will be unclean until evening. So you don't go around eating finger food or shaking hands or coming in contact with others until you bathe and a period of time passes.

It is a cleanliness Law that if practiced would help prevent disease and sickness.

Now this society will tell you that is not necessary. Remember this, these same people think nothing of dumping sewage in their drinking water. Where does the effluent from sewer plants go?

What does God say?

Deu 23:13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

Composting human waste would be a better solution than flushing it into the local river so that the next town or city downstream can use it for drinking and cooking.

Was there a Levitical law regarding human waste?

Didn't read that post eh?

 

[Elin]

Was there a Levitical law regarding human waste?

Didn't read that post eh?

Non-responsive.

Please state where the law is found.

 

[Elin]

Was there a Levitical law regarding human waste?

Didn't read that post eh?

There are none in Leviticus.

The one in Deuteronomy is for the military camp, not for everyone.

 

[KohenMatt]

There are none in Leviticus.

The one in Deuteronomy is for the military camp, not for everyone.

It doesn't specify that it is for military camps only.

 

[Elin]

It doesn't specify that it is for military camps only.

"When you are camped against your enemies. . ." (Dt 23:9)

Nor does it specify it is for everyone else.

 

[KohenMatt]

"When you are camped against your enemies. . ." (Dt 23:9)

Nor does it specify it is for everyone else.

There are 25 verses in chapter 23.
Only 1 verse directly refers to a military camp.
All of the rest are clearly un-related to the military.

I've provided the commands immediately surrounding vs. 9 to provide context. Notice the other commands have nothing to do with the military.

Deuteronomy 23:7-18

7 “You shall not detest an Edomite, for he is your brother; you shall not detest an Egyptian, because you were an alien in his land. 8 The sons of the third generation who are born to them may enter the assembly of the Lord.
9 “When you go out as an army against your enemies, you shall keep yourself from every evil thing.
10 “If there is among you any man who is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he must go outside the camp; he may not reenter the camp. 11 But it shall be when evening approaches, he shall bathe himself with water, and at sundown he may reenter the camp.
12 “You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, 13 and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement. 14 Since the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp to deliver you and to defeat your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy; and He must not see anything indecent among you or He will turn away from you.
15 “You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him.
17 “None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a cult prostitute. 18 You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the Lord your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God."

 

[royalscot]

Why would you think that following God does not involve rules? The entire Bible is about rules.

the new coveant , states to those rule, whos saved you from , the yolk of these rules.
because these rules saved no one.

Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 2

Galatians 2
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose


1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.Galatians 3

ie believing jesus christ is lord.

 

[Elin]

There are 25 verses in chapter 23.

Relevance?

There are thousands of verses in the Bible that don't relate to a military camp.

Only 1 verse directly refers to a military camp.
All of the rest are clearly un-related to the military.

Nonsense. They all relate to dealing with the enemy regarding war.

I've provided the commands immediately surrounding vs. 9 to provide context.
Notice the other commands have nothing to do with the military.

You don't understand what you are reading.
Many of them have to do with the military camp.

Deuteronomy 23:7-18

7 “You shall not detest an Edomite, for he is your brother; you shall not detest an Egyptian, because you were an alien in his land. 8 The sons of the third generation who are born to them may enter the assembly of the Lord.
9 “When you go out as an army against your enemies, you shall keep yourself from every evil thing.
10 “If there is among you any man who is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he must go outside the camp; he may not reenter the camp. 11 But it shall be when evening approaches, he shall bathe himself with water, and at sundown he may reenter the camp.
12 “You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, 13 and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement. 14 Since the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp to deliver you and to defeat your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy; and He must not see anything indecent among you or He will turn away from you.
15 “You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him.
17 “None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a cult prostitute. 18 You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the Lord your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God."

Sorry, Deut doesn't support your modern cultural notion that the laws were given for health reasons.

 

[KohenMatt]

Relevance?

There are thousands of verses in the Bible that don't relate to a military camp.


Nonsense. They all relate to dealing with the enemy regarding war.


You don't understand what you are reading.
Many of them have to do with the military camp.


Sorry, Deut doesn't support your modern cultural notion that the laws were given for health reasons.

So do you believe God wants His people to keep feces away from a military "camp", but they can defecate wherever they want around the tabernacle?

 

[JaumeJ]

The Gospel, and all of God's Word for that matter, is foolishness to those who do not believe. It is especially foolish to those who prop themselves up as scholars or intellectuals coupled with their disbelief, and so it should be, it is just one aspect of God's jusstice.

 

[JaumeJ]

The following seems most appropriate at this time.



12:3
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

Psa 12:4
Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

 

[BradC]

We are commanded to believe, to walk by faith, to cleave to the promises, to pray, to minister grace, to preach the gospel, to win the lost, to lay our life down, to not think evil of any man, to share one another's burdens, to edify and build up one another, to give more honor to those who are less honorable, to walk in wisdom toward them who lack and are without, to be kind and tenderhearted, to esteem others better than ourselves...these are just some of the commandments that we have been given by our Lord through the Spirit in the body of Christ and NT church. These are the commandments that we follow Christ with and with those commandments we are to take up our cross and deny ourselves. You want more... there is plenty more. I don't know how you could have missed them. Oh well, I guess it happens when there is a vail over the heart.

JaumeJ, are these not part of the Torah as you suggest from your own definition? These commands are for the NT believer in the church where Christ is the head. Can't we relate and discuss these commands as part of the new covenant that we are under through grace. These are the things that make for peace and are part of the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. These are the commandments for the believers who are in Christ in this dispensation of grace. We as believers are obligated by faith to these commandments through the grace of God. They are not legislated and have no condemnation associated with them. They are rewarded if we practice them or we suffer loss if we neglect them. This is how the new covenant works for every believer in Christ. Are you a believer in Christ or not? If you are then you are under the new covenant of grace and it is to be your practice as it is for every believer, Jew or Gentile.

JaumeJ, I suspect that what I have said in these posts and what others have said that are contrary to your belief system you consider to be some form of unbelief and perhaps even evil and none relevant to the Torah or to the believer. You have this very funny idea concerning the new covenant and how the old relates to the NT believer. That makes your gospel a strange one and it matters not how much you try to esteem Yahweh in your own gospel and understanding. It is unfortunate at your age that you have this understanding being so adamant about it. You also have this strange idea that we refuse the law of God and do not live according to any of the commandments, especially those of the old testament under your definition of the Torah.

Every word of God is inspired from Gen - Rev and when God said in (Heb 10:9) that he has put away the first to establish the second, that is exactly what he has done and we either believe that by faith or we not. You need to put away your old understanding and make ALL things new in what you believe as a NT believer, because you can not be an OT believer and live in a NT economy of grace and truth. Get rid of the old wine skin and the old patch and take on the newness of life that we have in Christ. Go all the way and have that vail removed so that you can have the liberty of the Spirit without the confines of the law dictating and regulating your conscience.

 

[john832]

Just for fun let's read Lev 15:22

Lev 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

It doesn't say cast into the Lake of Fire, it says the person who does this washes himself and will be unclean until evening. So you don't go around eating finger food or shaking hands or coming in contact with others until you bathe and a period of time passes.

It is a cleanliness Law that if practiced would help prevent disease and sickness.

Now this society will tell you that is not necessary. Remember this, these same people think nothing of dumping sewage in their drinking water. Where does the effluent from sewer plants go?

What does God say?

Deu 23:13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

Composting human waste would be a better solution than flushing it into the local river so that the next town or city downstream can use it for drinking and cooking.

Was there a Levitical law regarding human waste?

Didn't read that post eh?

The non-responsive part is the fact that you did not read the post. Notice the bolded verse Deut 23:13.

 

[john832]

There are none in Leviticus.

The one in Deuteronomy is for the military camp, not for everyone.

Your understanding of Levitical Law is amazingly underdeveloped. Do you suppose the Laws in the Pentateuch are not Levitical Laws and are not to be carried out by Levites unless they are found in one book, Leviticus?

 

[john832]

Whatever she touched was unclean.

And whatever untouched what she touched was unclean.

Picture of the contagion of sin, not disease.

It is a ceremonial purification law to show that spirituallly sin must be purified.

If this is a ceremonial Law picturing sin, where is the sacrifice that would have to be involved? There is none mentioned. It is a cleanliness and health Law.

 

[Dan_473]

Why would you think that following God does not involve rules? The entire Bible is about rules.

I understand many people read the bible that way... I read it saying that following God is about loving God and other people...

 

[Elin]

So do you believe God wants His people to keep feces away from a military "camp", but they can defecate wherever they want around the tabernacle?

I don't speculate about what is not written.

 

[Elin]

The Gospel, and all of God's Word for that matter, is foolishness to those who do not believe. It is especially foolish to those who prop themselves up as scholars or intellectuals coupled with their disbelief, and so it should be, it is just one aspect of God's jusstice.

Agreed. . . .

 

[Elin]

The following seems most appropriate at this time.

12:3
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

Psa 12:4
Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

In agreement with that would be:

"But if even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! . .so now I say again:
If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted,
let him be eternally condemned!" (Gal 1:8-9)