What did the Jew receive first?
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The first thing the Hebrews received was the covenant with Abraham. The Jews, or people who lived in Judah, are only part of the Hebrews.The Hebrews were first created through Abraham and there was an everlasting covenant made with them, one that was unconditional because Abraham was in a deep sleep when the covenant was made so he did not participate.It is an everlasting covenant.It involves actual land and many descendants.Abraham was to be blessed and all the families of the earth blessed through him.
We have the blessing of Christ through Abraham, as part of this covenant.We have the new covenant in Christ to improve on this, and with the return of Christ we will have the complete fulfillment of the covenant with Abraham.
We have the blessing of Christ through Abraham, as part of this covenant.We have the new covenant in Christ to improve on this, and with the return of Christ we will have the complete fulfillment of the covenant with Abraham.
I don't know why you always respond to my post as "I said". I am repeating what God says. I said that THE MYSTERY - "fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ" was not revealed until Paul received it from Jesus Christ.
But the Lord said unto him, God thy way: for he [Paul] is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: Acts 9:15
And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves and blasphemed he shook his raiment and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. Acts 18:5,6
Saying Go unto this people and say, Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: [prophecy from Isaiah 6:9,10] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles and that they will hear it. Acts 28:26-28
But I certify you brethren that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man neither was I taught it but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11,12
If you have heard of the dispensation [administration] of the grace of God which is given unto me [Paul] the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was NOT made known unto the sons of men as it is NOW REVEALED unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. Ephesians 3:2-6
But the Lord said unto him, God thy way: for he [Paul] is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: Acts 9:15
And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves and blasphemed he shook his raiment and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. Acts 18:5,6
Saying Go unto this people and say, Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: [prophecy from Isaiah 6:9,10] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles and that they will hear it. Acts 28:26-28
But I certify you brethren that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man neither was I taught it but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11,12
If you have heard of the dispensation [administration] of the grace of God which is given unto me [Paul] the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was NOT made known unto the sons of men as it is NOW REVEALED unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. Ephesians 3:2-6
This proves I should not stay away long if I hope to keep up, as I don't understand the misunderstanding?
The key words here may be fellow heirs, may these clarify what was revealed before and after Paul? The promise was revealed through Abraham, the manifestation of the promise, Christ Jesus, is revealed through Paul.
The key words here may be fellow heirs, may these clarify what was revealed before and after Paul? The promise was revealed through Abraham, the manifestation of the promise, Christ Jesus, is revealed through Paul.
Gen 15:9 He answered him, "Bring me a three-year-old cow, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a dove and a young pigeon." 10 He brought him all these, cut the animals in two and placed the pieces opposite each other; but he didn't cut the birds in half. 11 Birds of prey swooped down on the carcasses, but Avram drove them away. 12 As the sun was about to set, a deep sleep fell on Avram; horror and great darkness came over him. 13 Adonai said to Avram, "Know this for certain: your descendants will be foreigners in a land that is not theirs. They will be slaves and held in oppression there four hundred years.
Covenants were made by passing between the pieces of animals, with both parties passing through. That was a conditional covenant with both parties agreeing to the terms. This covenant had the Lord passing through only, Abraham was in a deep sleep.
Covenants were made by passing between the pieces of animals, with both parties passing through. That was a conditional covenant with both parties agreeing to the terms. This covenant had the Lord passing through only, Abraham was in a deep sleep.
When Christ was crucified, many things were changed. There are two ways of looking at this change that Christ made. One is by searching scripture to see how we have everything new in Christ. When this is carried to extremes, Christ becomes a new God separate from the Father. This is often done in our church today, and some will say, for instance that it is ALL about Christ. They have some truth in that, also, for salvation is all about Christ but we are to know even more than that.
Another way of looking at Christ is to explore exactly what Christ changed. That takes a lot of work, but it is worthwhile work. The very first change is in the blood, a glaring change that everyone sees first hand. You can explore how the blood was used by exploring the sacrifices and carry it over for how scripture shows Christ's blood being used in the same way. That is a labor of love that is time consuming and difficult. Most just bypass that and say Christ changed everything. That works, but it is not nearly as satisfying.
You haven't done this work. Some of what you say is not quite accurate because of this. Your way works, you have the gist of Christ down and you study the epistles. You are a saved, beloved Christian. But still, if you studied scripture more it would add depths to your understanding.
Another way of looking at Christ is to explore exactly what Christ changed. That takes a lot of work, but it is worthwhile work. The very first change is in the blood, a glaring change that everyone sees first hand. You can explore how the blood was used by exploring the sacrifices and carry it over for how scripture shows Christ's blood being used in the same way. That is a labor of love that is time consuming and difficult. Most just bypass that and say Christ changed everything. That works, but it is not nearly as satisfying.
You haven't done this work. Some of what you say is not quite accurate because of this. Your way works, you have the gist of Christ down and you study the epistles. You are a saved, beloved Christian. But still, if you studied scripture more it would add depths to your understanding.
You are correct. Some here in CC try to endorse a falsehood that Paul received a brand new revelation through Christ that has no connected with the writings of Moses or the covenant God made with Abraham. I think that's why this thread went to pieces. Hopefully we can carry on and learn from one another without such interferences as we experienced yesterday.
O
another point concerning the OP,
is a promise to the Father of the Jews,
this was given to the Jews only.
Gen.49:10.
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a law-giver from between his feet,
until Shiloh comes; and to Him shall be the obedience of the people.
Rev.5:5.
we read in Rev. that The Only One that can open the scroll and loose the seven seals
is The Lion of the tribe of Judah.
the absolute highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood is also exclusively given to
Judah.
as it is written,
'Rule in the midst of your enemies - and again, 'You are a Priest forever after the Order of Melchizedek.
Unto Judah or unto the Jews, is given the highest Kingship and the highest Priesthood.
Glory be to the King of Kings and to the Priest of Priests!!!
is a promise to the Father of the Jews,
this was given to the Jews only.
Gen.49:10.
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a law-giver from between his feet,
until Shiloh comes; and to Him shall be the obedience of the people.
Rev.5:5.
we read in Rev. that The Only One that can open the scroll and loose the seven seals
is The Lion of the tribe of Judah.
the absolute highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood is also exclusively given to
Judah.
as it is written,
'Rule in the midst of your enemies - and again, 'You are a Priest forever after the Order of Melchizedek.
Unto Judah or unto the Jews, is given the highest Kingship and the highest Priesthood.
Glory be to the King of Kings and to the Priest of Priests!!!
For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. . . . . For it is NOT possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast ha no pleasure . . Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do they will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:1,4,5,6,8,9
Moreover he [Moses] sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Hebrews 9:21,22
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. . . . Now where remission of these is there is no more offering for sin. Hebrews 10:12-14,18
Some of what you say is not quite accurate because of this. - I only posted scripture - so how could I not be accurate? You posted NO scripture just your opinion.
Hebrews 10:1,4,5,6,8,9
Moreover he [Moses] sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Hebrews 9:21,22
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. . . . Now where remission of these is there is no more offering for sin. Hebrews 10:12-14,18
Some of what you say is not quite accurate because of this. - I only posted scripture - so how could I not be accurate? You posted NO scripture just your opinion.
The first mention of "Jew" in the Bible is Esther's uncle Mordecai. He was of the tribe of Benjamin but not from the tribe of Judah where the term "Jew" came from.
Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite; (Esther 2:5)
So would it be right in your estimation that Jew is a representation of Israel as a nation?
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:6)
As I read the Bible, Israel crossed the Red Sea the same day Jesus rose from the dead. This is what Moses said. "And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still , and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever." (Exodus 14:13)
Then Moses and the entire nation of Israel sang this song. "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake , saying , I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously : the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation ; my father's God, and I will exalt him." (Exodus 15:1-2)
"Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it." (Acts 28:28)
Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite; (Esther 2:5)
So would it be right in your estimation that Jew is a representation of Israel as a nation?
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:6)
As I read the Bible, Israel crossed the Red Sea the same day Jesus rose from the dead. This is what Moses said. "And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still , and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever." (Exodus 14:13)
Then Moses and the entire nation of Israel sang this song. "Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake , saying , I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously : the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation ; my father's God, and I will exalt him." (Exodus 15:1-2)
"Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it." (Acts 28:28)
You are correct. Some here in CC try to endorse a
falsehood that Paul received a brand new revelation through Christ that has no connected with the writings of Moses or the covenant God made with Abraham. I think that's why this thread went to pieces. Hopefully we can carry on and learn from one another without such interferences as we experienced yesterday.
falsehood that Paul received a brand new revelation through Christ that has no connected with the writings of Moses or the covenant God made with Abraham. I think that's why this thread went to pieces. Hopefully we can carry on and learn from one another without such interferences as we experienced yesterday.
revealed them personally to Paul (2Co 12:4-9):
justification (Ro 3:28),
gift of righteousness from God (Ro 5:17),
faith in the blood of Jesus is atonement (Ro 3:25),
God's sovereign choice in rejecting Israel (Ro 9-11),
The olive tree, the one body of Christ, in whom abide branches of Israel and of Gentiles (Ro 11),
All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse (Gal 3:10),
The promises were spoken to Abraham and Christ only (Gal 3:16),
Believers in Christ are the seed of Abraham and hiers according to the promise
(Gal 3:29),
Believers are seated now in the heavenlies with Christ (Eph 2:6),
Believers are the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) because
Believers are the wife of Christ (Eph 5:31-32), in the
two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:28-32),
Believers were chosen to be sanctified before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4),
Believers were predestined to be adopted as sons of God (Eph 1:5),
All things were created by Christ, in heaven, earth, visible, invisible, spiritual forces (Col 1:16),
All things are sustained by Christ (Col 1:17),
Etc., etc., etc.
You are correct. Some here in CC try to endorse a falsehood that Paul received a brand new revelation through Christ that has no connection with the writings of Moses or the covenant God made with Abraham. I think that's why this thread went to pieces. Hopefully we can carry on and learn from one another without such interferences as we experienced yesterday.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up , and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Romans 16:25-26
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 And that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
If ya don't know what the scripture was that Paul is referring to, I ain't gonna tell ya.
It would be helpful if you listed which of Paul's teachings above are found in each of the four examples you provided, because:
(1) John is addressing Christians in Asia who were not Jews.
"From the beginning" is from the beginning of their Christian experience when they heard the gospel.
(3)The subject of Ro 16: is the "gospel."
(4) The resurrection is not on the list of new revelation given to Paul, and does not apply to the question.
You have not shown where the new revelations listed above are found in Scripture before Jesus gave them to Paul.
Yes, Paul received a brand new revelation.
(1) John is addressing Christians in Asia who were not Jews.
"From the beginning" is from the beginning of their Christian experience when they heard the gospel.
(3)The subject of Ro 16: is the "gospel."
(4) The resurrection is not on the list of new revelation given to Paul, and does not apply to the question.
You have not shown where the new revelations listed above are found in Scripture before Jesus gave them to Paul.
Yes, Paul received a brand new revelation.
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So the question still remains. What did the Jews receive first "tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil" and "glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good?" Where do we find out about this anguish for one and honor for the other? Is this all new, or has it been well documented in scriptures from the beginning?
"And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law." (Joshua 8:34)
"And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law." (Joshua 8:34)