Hell

[LRG]

Noone is advertising any particular denomination. The seventh-day Christian Sabbath was created by the LORD, not the Seventh-Day Adventists. Most people on this forum don't appear to believe what the Bible teaches, yet they will automatically believe 1-sided articles about E.G. White. I guess the mass rejection of Scripture by most on this forum is a microcosm of the mass confusion amongst Christianity throughout the world. It is easy to see how so many will receive the Mark and be rejected by the Lord when He returns.

God Bless

It's not a Christian Sabbath it is a Jewish Sabbath. Christians keep the Lord's Day which is not the Sabbath. Christ is the Sabbath. You are not under Old Covenant law if you are a New Testament believer. The New Covenant abolished the Old Covenant.

 

[LRG]

As to these doctrines of man, I know I have no doctrine of myself, just a few speculative items I'd always express as such, if I did, rather base faith on the word of God. A few things I can't say I personally like in the Bible, thinking as a man, but, nonetheless, they are truths. Jesus Christ is everything, not man, looking any other direction sheer folly and creature hubris. The Bible is the truth, not sinful false prophets, who always misdirect eyes from our Lord Jesus to the workings of man and institutional enslavement. This is very wrong, condemned in New Testament Christianity.

The problem is that man's thoughts and feelings are subjective and as such subject to change. Feelings and perceptions are not always correct so there needs to be an objective truth and some method to check all doctrines. Kind of like a spiritual quality control. A lot of scriptures are very clear yet people will still twist them to suit their theology.

Scripture dictates doctrine, not the other way around. That is what all the false groups do. They make a doctrine based on a particular verse but don't take the scriptures as a whole. Kind of like half a truth which is still a lie.

 

[hopesprings]

Not at all. It's one of those "My God is too just to sentence anyone to centuries of torture upon his/her death without the due process of a trial. It is only after having received a sentence of death in the Great White Throne Judgment that he/she may be sent to the Lake of Fire.

It is the position of the few on here that a just God would sentence a man who committed a murder a thousand years ago to a place of fiery punishment called Hell while another many might commit murder and have to only serve two days in that fiery Hell should Christ return in two days. Meanwhile, neither of the two men had been served the due process of a fair and impartial trial.

both of the men would have received a fair and impartial trial the second they died. Probably before that. We are talking about God here, and I highly doubt His idea of judgement and justice looks the same as our court of law.

 

[LRG]

Not at all. It's one of those "My God is too just to sentence anyone to centuries of torture upon his/her death without the due process of a trial. It is only after having received a sentence of death in the Great White Throne Judgment that he/she may be sent to the Lake of Fire.

It is the position of the few on here that a just God would sentence a man who committed a murder a thousand years ago to a place of fiery punishment called Hell while another many might commit murder and have to only serve two days in that fiery Hell should Christ return in two days. Meanwhile, neither of the two men had been served the due process of a fair and impartial trial.

You are sent to Hell because you reject the atonement. Christ already paid for the sins of humanity on the cross. That is what the blood is for. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. So if you reject this atonement then you will pay for your own sins throughout all eternity because there is no such thing as non-existence once you have come into existence.


Romans 3:24-26New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][a][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

 

[LRG]

I'm still waiting. Provide the post and show me the scripture that proves I have ever called Christ a liar. You certainly are free with the name calling. For a 46 year old you are very immature. Were you raised without parents to correct you?

The scriptures are there to correct your false theology.

There is no need for personal insults.

 

[VCO]

Yes. Just do a search on the tenants of any of the Church denominations you wish and you can readily see. It's easy.

I agree wholeheartedly with the central core of beliefs that ALL mainline Church denominations have in COMMON.

I agree that those outside the Mainline Churches, frequently have false beliefs, such as denying the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, Denying the Deity of Jesus Christ, Denying the inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures in their original manuscripts, etc., etc. Those false beliefs remove them from being part of valid Christian denominations, and put them in the category of psuedo Christian cults.

Here is a link to a typical Doctrinal Statement of Faith from a mainline Christian Church:


Statement of Faith - First Baptist Church Atlanta


I am not from that denomination and STILL, I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Here is another Statement of Faith from another Denomination that I is not my denomination, and STILL I agree with it wholeheartedly:

EFCA Statement of Faith | EFCA

Here is another Statement of Faith from another Denomination that I is not my denomination, and STILL I agree with it wholeheartedly:

Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches

And of course, here is a Statement of Faith from the Type of Church that I do attend, but not my specific Church; and YET AGAIN, I find I agree with it wholeheartedly:

Statement of Faith — Community Bible Church

 

[VCO]

Sounds like we agree on most of the points I talked about and I am sure while the fire is burning there will be a lot of gnashing and weeping going on.

I would think that if people reject the gift of salvation that it would go without saying that they had rejected the Holy Spirit. I agree that the punishment is eternal non-existence.

How do you get around the verse in Malachi 4:3 Where it plainly states that the wicked will be ashes under the soles of your feet. Don't usually have ashes until the fire goes out.

I am not so sure that I asked the question that you said I asked, but the a saved person wouldn't go to hell would be because they accepted the free gift of salvation that Jesus offers to all. It's a choice and everyone on earth has that choice. Accept the gift and live or reject the gift and die.

As to the people that might not have heard about God - our God is a very just God and He is the one doing the judging of those souls and I will leave that in His capable hands. Mine is not to question why mine is but to do or die.

Here is the answer to your slight misunderstanding.

Matthew 10:28 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

NOW read through that verse again, and what part of MAN do you NOT SEE MENTIONED THERE.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

RIGHT, there is NO MENTION OF THE UNSAVED HUMAN SPIRIT BEING DESTROYED, and yes that word destroy in the Greek can mean to be totally consumed by fire. But the unsaved human spirit will be there for ETERNITY in torment as punishment for rejecting the Holy Spirit's efforts to get him or her to genuinely believe in the one WHO created everything, Jesus Christ.

 

[LRG]

As promised when I returned from the weekend trip to Epcot - This is my understanding of Hell.

Many times when hell is talked about in the Bible it is referring to the grave where the dead rest. Questions about Hell would also go with a study I did on the thread titled Question About Death Post #5.

Personally I think that we are living in Hell here on earth, everyday one temptation after another. The smoker wants his cigarettes, the obese person such as myself constantly tempted by food. You name your sin you got your poison to fill it...Then add all the chaos and terrible things we humans do to each other. The way Hell is taught and misrepresented is another lie by the way, just scare tactic to try and get people to follow God...what a joke.

No one in their right mind would want to follow or love a vindictive God who is just out to punish someone because they messed up. Where is the justice in the first person born that told one lie and has been burning since the worlds been turning and then you have the mass murderers in our day and age and they burn for a shorter period of time just because of when they were born? This is not fair or just and it is not how our God works. Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies, says the Lord God. Therefore turn and live.

God's character has been misrepresented as every act God performs is an act of love. Other wise why would He even have bothered to send Jesus to die on the cross for us if He just wanted to punish and torment us for eternity. He could have saved a lot of time by just zapping us out of existence with the first sin committed and Satan would not be here to tempt anyone as sin started in heaven with Lucifer = (Satan, Devil).

The earth will be purified by fire in the end as Satan and the wicked angels and humans who decided to not accept Jesus as their personal Savior will be burned up in the lake of fire that God will kindle. But as any fire when the fuel is burned up the fire will go out.

Both the wicked and the righteous are resting in their graves and at the second coming of Jesus the righteous will rise to eternal life (1 Thessalonians 4:16 &17) and at the end of the 1000 years that Satan has been bound on this earth the wicked dead will be raised from the death of sleep to eternal damnation (Revelation 20:9). They will be destroyed by fire and will be eternally wiped out of existence. Malachi 4:3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this, Says the Lord of hosts. Obadiah 16 last part... And they shall be as though they had never been.

My Bible says GOD IS LOVE in the book of John.

Hell is not burning right at this moment tormenting people and people don't go to heaven at the moment they die I would suggest going to read the thread title above first as understanding of Hell kind of goes hand in hand with understanding of death. Hell will be real at the end of this sinful earth's history as God will purify this earth with fire and burn up the wicked at that time. Death will also be done away with at that time.

The grave? That is only in the Old Testament, sheol, where the body lies, not where the soul is.

The worst conditions on earth are nothing compared to the eternal torment of Hell.

Hell is misrepresented? Scare tactics? Then you call Christ a liar and accuse him of scare tactics?

Luke 12:4-5New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.


God is not vindictive. God is just. There is a big difference.

Romans 1:17-19New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[SUP][a][/SUP] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[SUP][b][/SUP]


God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

[SUP]18 [/SUP]The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.


Romans 2:4-6New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. [SUP]6 [/SUP]God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[SUP][a]


[/SUP]Revelation 14:9-11New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”


Romans 5:8-10New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! [SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!


God is merciful since he sacrificed his own son on the cross so that man may be reconciled to him through Christ. But, man has to be willing to repent and accept this free gift of salvation by faith. If man loves their sin more than God then man will reject Christ and pay for their own sins for eternity because they have rejected Christ and his atonement. So in essence man has damned himself because he loves the darkness over the light.

John 3:18-20New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.


The fall of man is not because the first man told a lie but because man disobeyed God. Actually it is really Satan who is behind the fall of man since he tempted Eve and then Adam willfully disobeyed God. So ever since then when sin entered the world there needed to be an atonement. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins and that is where you get the Old Testament sacrifices and then Christ who is the last and final sacrifice.

Romans 5:14-15New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!



God did destroy man in the deluge because he repented creating him because they were so evil. But he also promised that he would not do that again. There is a difference between God's divine will and his permissive will. God is letting things transpire but he pre-ordained Christ to die for the remission of sins and God will also take care of Satan, the fallen angels and all the wicked at The Great White Throne judgement.

Genesis 6:5-7New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”



Genesis 9:12-15New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: [SUP]13 [/SUP]I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, [SUP]15 [/SUP]I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.


1 Peter 1:19-21New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. [SUP]20 [/SUP]He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.



Revelation 20:10New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


The Bible does not say the fire will go out. The torment is for ever.

All the physical bodies of people are resting in their graves but there is no such thing as soul sleep. In fact now if you are a believer in Christ and die your body is in the grave but your soul is with Christ. The Apostle Paul attested to this. Absent from the body and present with the Lord. The wicked are in Hades as is described in the parable of Lazarus.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For we live by faith, not by sight. [SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

There are two separate resurrections. The wicked and righteous are not resurrected at the same time.

Luke 14:14New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”


Acts 24:15New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


Revelation 20:5-6New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP](The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.


Hades exists right now and is a place of torment as per Lazarus. And all believer's in Christ when they die go to be with Christ.


You need to stop listening to man and start reading the scriptures. There are very many clear scriptures that will totally refute your arguments. Please reconsider your position.

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

It's not a Christian Sabbath it is a Jewish Sabbath. Christians keep the Lord's Day which is not the Sabbath. Christ is the Sabbath. You are not under Old Covenant law if you are a New Testament believer. The New Covenant abolished the Old Covenant.

Where in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only? So, there is a Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day? Tell me, where can I find even a single direct commandment from the LORD in the entire Bible to observe the first day of the week (Sunday) in honor of Christ's resurrection? I don't want your opinion, I want Scripture. Otherwise there is no foundation for such a belief. The Old Covenant has been abolished? Did you mean Covenant or Testament?

God Bless

 

[LRG]

Where in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only? So, there is a Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day? Tell me, where can I find even a single direct commandment from the LORD in the entire Bible to observe the first day of the week (Sunday) in honor of Christ's resurrection? I don't want your opinion, I want Scripture. Otherwise there is no foundation for such a belief. The Old Covenant has been abolished? Did you mean Covenant or Testament?

God Bless

The Lord's Day the day of his resurrection and not the Sabbath.

[h=1]Matthew 28:1-3New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]Jesus Has Risen[/h]28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. [SUP]3 [/SUP]His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.


[h=1]Acts 20:7New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]Eutychus Raised From the Dead at Troas[/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.



[h=1]1 Corinthians 16:1-2New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]The Collection for the Lord’s People[/h]16 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. [SUP]2 [/SUP]On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

 

[LRG]

Where in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only? So, there is a Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day? Tell me, where can I find even a single direct commandment from the LORD in the entire Bible to observe the first day of the week (Sunday) in honor of Christ's resurrection? I don't want your opinion, I want Scripture. Otherwise there is no foundation for such a belief. The Old Covenant has been abolished? Did you mean Covenant or Testament?

God Bless

[h=1]Romans 15:3-5New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]3 [/SUP]For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had,



[h=1]Hebrews 8:6-7New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]6 [/SUP]But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.


[h=1]Hebrews 8:12-13New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[LRG]

Where in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only? So, there is a Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day? Tell me, where can I find even a single direct commandment from the LORD in the entire Bible to observe the first day of the week (Sunday) in honor of Christ's resurrection? I don't want your opinion, I want Scripture. Otherwise there is no foundation for such a belief. The Old Covenant has been abolished? Did you mean Covenant or Testament?

God Bless

Regarding the Sabbath. Who was God talking to?

[h=1]Exodus 20 New International Version (NIV)[/h]
[h=3]The Ten Commandments[/h]20 And God spoke all these words:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Six days you shall labor and do all your work, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


[h=1]Deuteronomy 5 New International Version (NIV)[/h]
[h=3]The Ten Commandments[/h]5 Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Six days you shall labor and do all your work, [SUP]14 [/SUP]but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

 

[LRG]

Where in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only? So, there is a Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day? Tell me, where can I find even a single direct commandment from the LORD in the entire Bible to observe the first day of the week (Sunday) in honor of Christ's resurrection? I don't want your opinion, I want Scripture. Otherwise there is no foundation for such a belief. The Old Covenant has been abolished? Did you mean Covenant or Testament?

God Bless

You keep the Sabbath yet Jesus broke it. How do you figure that?

[h=1]John 5:16-17New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]The Authority of the Son[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”



[h=1]John 9:15-16New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. “He put mud on my eyes,” the man replied, “and I washed, and now I see.”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.


[h=1]Mark 2:26-28New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]26 [/SUP]In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. [SUP]28 [/SUP]So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”



[h=1]Luke 6:1-5New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath[/h]6 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? [SUP]4 [/SUP]He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”



[h=1]Matthew 12:7-8New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[SUP][a][/SUP] you would not have condemned the innocent. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

 

[tonto]

both of the men would have received a fair and impartial trial the second they died. Probably before that. We are talking about God here, and I highly doubt His idea of judgement and justice looks the same as our court of law.

Where does it state that a trial is held the moment one dies? Please provide the scripture.

The saved will face the judgment seat of Christ at the First Resurrection to obtain their rewards. The unsaved will face the Great White Throne judgment when they are resurrected. There is no judgment at the event of one's death except for the one you are trying to impose. Read your Bible. Post the scripture that says there is a judgment on the event of one's death.

 

[tonto]

I agree wholeheartedly with the central core of beliefs that ALL mainline Church denominations have in COMMON.

I agree that those outside the Mainline Churches, frequently have false beliefs, such as denying the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, Denying the Deity of Jesus Christ, Denying the inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures in their original manuscripts, etc., etc. Those false beliefs remove them from being part of valid Christian denominations, and put them in the category of psuedo Christian cults.

Here is a link to a typical Doctrinal Statement of Faith from a mainline Christian Church:


Statement of Faith - First Baptist Church Atlanta


I am not from that denomination and STILL, I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Here is another Statement of Faith from another Denomination that I is not my denomination, and STILL I agree with it wholeheartedly:

EFCA Statement of Faith | EFCA

Here is another Statement of Faith from another Denomination that I is not my denomination, and STILL I agree with it wholeheartedly:

Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches

And of course, here is a Statement of Faith from the Type of Church that I do attend, but not my specific Church; and YET AGAIN, I find I agree with it wholeheartedly:

Statement of Faith — Community Bible Church

What a waste of server space. We already see that you are eaten up with false doctrines.

 

[tonto]

It's not a Christian Sabbath it is a Jewish Sabbath. Christians keep the Lord's Day which is not the Sabbath. Christ is the Sabbath. You are not under Old Covenant law if you are a New Testament believer. The New Covenant abolished the Old Covenant.

Then you say there are only nine Commandments left since you abolish the Commandment to keep the Sabbath? More false doctrine.

Who Changed The Sabbath To Sunday - Constantine Or Pope?

 

[tonto]

Where in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only? So, there is a Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day? Tell me, where can I find even a single direct commandment from the LORD in the entire Bible to observe the first day of the week (Sunday) in honor of Christ's resurrection? I don't want your opinion, I want Scripture. Otherwise there is no foundation for such a belief. The Old Covenant has been abolished? Did you mean Covenant or Testament?

God Bless

He means the Ten Commandments are done away with. The RCC held that they had the authority to change anything they wished. The other churches simply followed the RCC lead as usual. All are in error.

 

[4enlightment]

I have to admit I have a real problem with this. I remember when I was first saved, a Jehovah Witness put one of their little leaflets through my door and there was a little bit about Hell in there, I know that what was written in that leaflet wasn't Biblical but it did make me feel better. It described Hell from the JW point of view, suggesting that the "pit" described in the Bible was simply a grave - so the unsaved were simply buried and that was as bad as it got. I struggle with the truth of Hell - all my family are unsaved and my parents do not deserve to suffer the torment of Hell but seemingly this awaits them. I pray for my family but so far nothing has changed.

So where is Hell? How can such a place exist? I have heard there are varying degrees of suffering depending on the depth of sin one has committed during their lifetime. I guess I just want someone to make be feel better about this, I really don't want Hell to be literal, it's a burden I carry.

Hell is a state of being trapped like someone that is suffering from depression, not able to see the goodness of God. Like on a beautiful sunny day, but to the ones that's suffering from depression, will always having the feeling that a dark cloud is hovering over them. And so hell it is being in the absence from God.

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

<strong><em>[video=youtube_share;bWjH8hAFYkw]http://youtu.be/bWjH8hAFYkw[/video]

 

[tonto]

The Lord's Day the day of his resurrection and not the Sabbath.

Matthew 28:1-3New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Has Risen

28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. [SUP]3 [/SUP]His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.


Acts 20:7New International Version (NIV)

Eutychus Raised From the Dead at Troas

[SUP]7 [/SUP]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.



1 Corinthians 16:1-2New International Version (NIV)

The Collection for the Lord’s People

16 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. [SUP]2 [/SUP]On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Here is who changed the Sabbath. It is common knowledge.

THE ROMAN CHURCH'S ADMISSION OF CHANGING THE SABBATH

 

[JesusIsAll]

Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Matthew 13:40-42 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41,46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 9:42-48 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.