Contradiction of WORDS

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Dec 12, 2013
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Yeah I found the passage and yeah I saw the answer but I guess the answer wasn't what he wanted so might as well ask again.
HAHAH yeah I suppose...maybe he thinks if he asks the wrong question 100 times that the people who answer by the scriptures will change their minds...not!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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OK well if you deny original sin then that means every person is born sinless but I only know two who were born sinless and one of those two actually sinned. To say we are all born sinless is to say at birth we all equal Adam and Jesus. But I am pretty sure the Bible teaches that Adams sin was passed down through his seed to every generation. Isn't this correct?

Well yeah....For as by ONE man sin entered into the human race and the result is death has passed upon all men.....
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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OK well if you deny original sin then that means every person is born sinless but I only know two who were born sinless and one of those two actually sinned. To say we are all born sinless is to say at birth we all equal Adam and Jesus. But I am pretty sure the Bible teaches that Adams sin was passed down through his seed to every generation. Isn't this correct?
12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:— 13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam’s transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if
by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many. 16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification. 17 For if,
by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. 18 So then as
through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous. 20 And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: 21 that, as sin reigned in death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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elf3

Guest
Well yeah....For as by ONE man sin entered into the human race and the result is death has passed upon all men.....
12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:— 13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam’s transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if
by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many. 16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification. 17 For if,
by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. 18 So then as
through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous. 20 And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: 21 that, as sin reigned in death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ok whew I thought I might have been reading the wrong book. That's a huge relief because the book I am ready says Holy Bible on the spine. Does yours say that on the spine?
 
E

elf3

Guest
elf, dcontroversal and Elin can't answer this simple question and maybe you can.

Why did Jesus condemn His listeners for not believing by using the example of The Ninevites repenting at the preaching of Jonah?
Um since this has been answered do you still need it answered?
 
May 14, 2014
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Originally posted by Elin
Where does the text indicate Jesus expected anything of his enemies,"this wicked generation" (Mt 12:45) of Pharisees? Jesus did not expect the Pharisees to repent. His purpose was to announce judgment on this exceedingly wicked generation for being more wicked than even the wicked pagan Ninevah, which repented at the preaching of the prophet Jonah, while they did not repent at the preaching of the prophet whom Moses said "is to come" (Dt 18:18-19; Jn 1:45, 6:14); i.e., the Messiah.
Jesus tells Gods enemies, the exceedinly wicked Pahrisees that they are facing destruction, but doesn't expect them to repent, yet Jonah tellsGods enemies the less wicked Ninevites (who are so less wicked) that they are facing destruction, but does expect them to repent???
What a joke.
His purpose was to announce judgment
Wrong again:

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Jn.12:47

Elin, if only you had lived when Jesus walked the earth. You could have corrected Him that He came to save the world, except for the wicked Pharisees.
 
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elf3

Guest
Sure I'll answer but only after I study it. And by study I mean study not just read it over and over. I'll answer tomorrow.
 
May 14, 2014
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HAHAH yeah I suppose...maybe he thinks if he asks the wrong question 100 times that the people who answer by the scriptures will change their minds...not!
Here's a few more "wrong questions" dcon:

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth and they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Lk.1:5-6

"But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Lk.5:30-32

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Ro.3:10

Were Aaron and Elisabeth righteous? Did Jesus come to call them? Does Paul teach that Aaron and Elisabeth weren't righteous? Maybe you should call Elin so I can get another response filled with nonsense.
 
May 14, 2014
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Sure I'll answer but only after I study it. And by study I mean study not just read it over and over. I'll answer tomorrow.
Thanks elf. I really hope your answer will be better than the silly idea that the Ninevites were so much less wicked, than the more wicked Pharisees, God was going to destroy them in 40 days.
 
E

elf3

Guest
Here's a few more "wrong questions" dcon:

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth and they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Lk.1:5-6

"But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Lk.5:30-32

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Ro.3:10

Were Aaron and Elisabeth righteous? Did Jesus come to call them? Does Paul teach that Aaron and Elisabeth weren't righteous? Maybe you should call Elin so I can get another response filled with nonsense.
Actually cross reference Romans 3:10 with Psalms 14:1-3, Psalms 53:1-3 and Eccl. 7:20 and you will see where this part of Pauls writting comes from. Every time you see "As it is written" means it comes from the OT. Doesn't Jesus Himself say "As it is written" referring back to the OT.
 
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elf3

Guest
Actually cross reference Romans 3:10 with Psalms 14:1-3, Psalms 53:1-3 and Eccl. 7:20 and you will see where this part of Pauls writting comes from. Every time you see "As it is written" means it comes from the OT. Doesn't Jesus Himself say "As it is written" referring back to the OT.
So Paul saying "there a re none righteous no not one" was actually said first by David and the author of Eccl. Paul was just repeating what had already been said. So Paul was just preaching OT. So ask why those authors wrote that not Paul.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Matt 16:24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…Sounds like work to me....
"My sheep hear my voice and they follow me."

"Those who hear these teachings/words of mine and do/practice them, are like wise builders who laid their foundation on a rock."

And trial and testing, tribulation and persecution came and beat against this house, the house stood firm, for that wise builder patiently in practice dig down deep and found the rock/CHRIST and laid his foundation on HIM.

Sounds like work to me too.

This is about those who do not work to keep their salvation , after receiving Grace;

"And those who hear these teachings of mine and do not do/practice them, are like a foolish builder, who laid his foundation on the sand, ................................................................."

'It fall and great was the fall of that foundation.'
 
May 14, 2014
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Originally posted by elf3
So Paul saying "there a re none righteous no not one" was actually said first by David and the author of Eccl. Paul was just repeating what had already been said. So Paul was just preaching OT. So ask why those authors wrote that not Paul.
Because the NT interprets the OT in a clearer way...or it should, but Christianity has misinterpreted Pauls "faith vs. works" teachings.


All Paul meant was that we are all sinners in need of salvation, which comes from God only.

That's Why Jesus came preaching repentance to us because repentance is possible, not impossible as heretics teach:

"And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." Jn.8:11


This is why God sent Jonah Ninevah. Jesus said they repented at Jonahs preaching. The only sacrifice those people offered was repentance.


As for Paul quoting David? When David was confronted by Gods man Nathan, it produced a broken heart, which is all God is looking for:


"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps.51:16-17

John the Baptist died for his faith in God. He was sent here to turn people toward God:

"And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." Lk.1:17

This was the mission of all Gods prophets. It was the Son of Gods mission too:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." He.1:1-2

Jesus told a parable about this, teaching us what Gods purpose for sending Him was:

"But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son." Mt.21:37G

God sent His Son to be burdened with our sinful condition. Jesus was burdened (or bore) our sins His entire ministry, ending with the cross.:

"And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering." Le.16:19

(This One had no sin.)

"But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness." Le.16:20

(This One who was burdened with the peoples sins was not to be killed, but to go into the world.)

Anyway elf, I think I'm pretty much done here. Crass comments are causing me to be crass...and I'd rather cut my grass!!!
 
E

elf3

Guest
elf, dcontroversal and Elin can't answer this simple question and maybe you can.

Why did Jesus condemn His listeners for not believing by using the example of The Ninevites repenting at the preaching of Jonah?
Matthew 12:38-41
First you must understand that the OT prophets had to give a sign that they were chosen of God. This is why the scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus to give a sign. Kind of funny because up to this point Jesus had already given them signs that He was from God. This is why Jesus basically says "no I am not gonna give you a sign right now". Jesus tells them His sign will be the sign of Jonah in the belly of the great fish 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus predicts, or actually tells, of His death and ressurection and by His death and ressurection will show He is the messiah. Even with this great sign He knew they would still reject Him. Jesus says the men of Nineveh would rise up in judgement of "this generation" because they listened to Jonah thus Nineveh wasn't destroyed yet "this generation" rejects one who is greater than Jonah. Even with all the signs of Jesus with everything He has done and will do including His death and ressurection their hearts were so hardened they still reject Jesus as the Messiah. Now we can actually read that what Jesus said as true because they still rejected and some still do reject Jesus as the Messiah. Kind of ironic that after Jesus gives up His life on the cross the Roman centurion guarding Him says "Truly this was the Son of God" (Matt. 27:54). A Roman centurion who possibly didn't know the OT saw it but those who studied the OT still had no clue.

I hope this is clear as to your question.
 
May 14, 2014
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Not bad elf, but the "evil generation" doesn't mean everyone living at that time. It means those who "seek a sign." It means "dance for me." It means "I'll never be satisfied with what God does for me." (Lk.7:31-35)

The onus is on people, not God.
 
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elf3

Guest
Not bad elf, but the "evil generation" doesn't mean everyone living at that time. It means those who "seek a sign." It means "dance for me." It means "I'll never be satisfied with what God does for me." (Lk.7:31-35)

The onus is on people, not God.
Romans 3:11 "There is none that understands; There is none who seek after God." Again taking us back to Psalms. Unless God reveals Himself to us we will never seek after Him because of the sin that controls our life. Unless God steps in we will always be lost. God did step in God paid the price but man still rejects Him because man is sinful in nature.

If you believe man is born sinless and we pull ourselves to to God you cannot understand the Gospel of Jesus. We didn't go after God He came after us.

In the Matthew verses I explained Jesus is telling us that even though He gave us the the signs we still reject Him. The men of Nineveh stand in judgement because they believed God yet "this generation" still rejects Him. And actually "this generation" means everyone then before and now. How many times did Israel reject God even though God revealed Himself to them time and again? Until you acknowledge sin in you, you will reject the gospel because you feel you have to "work" in order to be saved.
 

Elin

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Jan 19, 2013
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OK well if you deny original sin then that means every person is born sinless but I only know two who were born sinless and one of those two actually sinned. To say we are all born sinless is to say at birth we all equal Adam and Jesus. But I am pretty sure the Bible teaches that Adams sin was passed down through his seed to every generation. Isn't this correct?
Yes, it is.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Jesus tells Gods enemies, the exceedinly wicked Pahrisees that they are facing destruction, but doesn't expect them to repent, yet Jonah tellsGods enemies the less wicked Ninevites (who are so less wicked) that they are facing destruction, but does expect them to repent???
What a joke.

Wrong again:

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Jn.12:47

Elin, if only you had lived when Jesus walked the earth. You could have corrected Him that He came to save the world, except for the wicked Pharisees.
This also shows your inability to view the bigger picture and the whole of scripture as it also states...

THE FATHER JUDGETH no man, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the SON....And the dead shall stand BEFORE GOD to be judged....JESUS came to seek and save that which has been lost as the Son of MAN and as the SON of GOD he will also JUDGE ALL...so open your half closed and blind eyes before you leave the world in ignorance!