Hell

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T

tonto

Guest
Hell is a place where the soul of man departs after leaving this life, who has not believed in the righteousness of God. All bodies, both of the righteous and the unrighteous, go into the grave to await a future judgment, one unto life and the other unto condemnation. The unrighteous, who await in this place called hell will be judged according to their works and will face a second death called the lake of fire. Both death and hell will be cast into that lake of fire and all those whose names are not written in the book of life. The lake of fire is eternal damnation to Satan, his angels and to those who have rejected God's righteousness. There the fire is not quenched, the worm dies not, there will be torment day and night and there is darkness and smoke. The very lusts of the flesh that fulfilled them in this life and in this world can never be satisfied in this lake of fire and brimstone. They will live every day throughout eternity knowing that they rejected the one who could have saved them from all this.

They may have been morally good people but they rejected God's goodness by rejecting the gospel and Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. They may have lived a long and fulfilling life but not according to the grace of God or God's righteousness through the Holy Spirit. They lived there life on earth with no life from above. They derived pleasure from earthly things and not from God's right hand where Christ sits. God never knew them nor had any relationship with them and therefore rejected all their goodness and all their righteousness through His perfect justice. They relied upon themselves instead of trusting in the living God. They wanted to live their life their way and not God's way. They had a life that seemed pure and right unto themselves but they were alienated from the life of God. God has only one choice to give to those who reject Him and the righteousness he provided through his Son and that is eternal separation
Then the scripture that states that the body returns to the dust and the spirit returns to God is wrong? There's no mention of any place other than with God that the spirit goes.
 
T

tonto

Guest
Hades is a place of torment for the UNSAVED human spirits, until the Second Resurrection, which is the Resurrection of the UNSAVED DEAD BODIES to FACE Jesus Christ as their JUDGE. THEN AND ONLY THEN will the First person enter HELL, a place of Torment for the RESURRECTED UNSAVED.

I suspect that the Pharisees and the Scribes regularly argued amongst themselves about WHO WAS GOING TO GET TO WALK THE CLOSEST TO ABRAHAM IN THE KINGDOM of Heaven. Then along comes Jesus, telling a true story about a lowly beggar named LAZARUS, whom everyone knew; and Jesus told them, NO, it will be Lazarus who gets to walk the closest to Abraham. Can you imagine the look on the faces of the Scribes and Pharisees?
Again, the body returns to the dust and the spirit returns to God. All spirits, the saved and the unsaved return to God.
 
T

tonto

Guest
Okay. That was quick. Just to expose your lie claiming the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath. The Catholic church understands the difference between the Sabbath and the Lord's Day just like any other Christian would. Go to the Vatican Holy See for proof. Now are you going to call the truth a lie? If you do just remember who is the Father of Lies. Take heed.

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."[SUP]92[/SUP]
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."[SUP]93[/SUP]
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."[SUP]94[/SUP]
2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.[SUP]95[/SUP] The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.
2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."[SUP]96[/SUP] The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.[SUP]97[/SUP]
2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.[SUP]98[/SUP] He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."[SUP]99[/SUP] With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.[SUP]100[/SUP] The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.[SUP]101[/SUP] "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."[SUP]102


[/SUP]

II. The Lord's Day
This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.[SUP]103[/SUP]


The day of the Resurrection: the new creation
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."[SUP]104[/SUP] Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,[SUP]105[/SUP] it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.[SUP]106[/SUP]
Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:[SUP]107[/SUP]
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.[SUP]108[/SUP]
2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."[SUP]109[/SUP] Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.
The Sunday Eucharist
2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord's Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church's life.
"Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."[SUP]110[/SUP]
"Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ,
the Epiphany,
the Ascension of Christ,
the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi,
the feast of Mary the Mother of God,
her Immaculate Conception,
her Assumption,
the feast of Saint Joseph,
the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."[SUP]111[/SUP]
2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age.[SUP]112[/SUP] The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful "not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another."[SUP]113[/SUP]
Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer.... Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal.... We have often said: "This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it."[SUP]114[/SUP]
2179 "A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop."[SUP]115[/SUP] It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist. the parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life: it gathers them together in this celebration; it teaches Christ's saving doctrine; it practices the charity of the Lord in good works and brotherly love:
You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests.[SUP]116[/SUP]
The Sunday obligation
2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."[SUP]117[/SUP] "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."[SUP]118[/SUP]
2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.[SUP]119[/SUP] Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.
2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. the faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God's holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
2183 "If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families."[SUP]120[/SUP]
A day of grace and rest from work
2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"[SUP]121[/SUP] human life has a rhythm of work and rest. the institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.[SUP]122[/SUP]
2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.[SUP]123[/SUP] Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. the faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health.
The charity of truth seeks holy leisure - the necessity of charity accepts just work.[SUP]124[/SUP]
2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.
2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.
2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays. They have to give everyone a public example of prayer, respect, and joy and defend their traditions as a precious contribution to the spiritual life of society. If a country's legislation or other reasons require work on Sunday, the day should nevertheless be lived as the day of our deliverance which lets us share in this "festal gathering," this "assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."[SUP]125[/SUP]

Just a bunch of flowered up excuses for changing the Sabbath day without being given the authority to do so. Nowhere in the Bible was it ever said that anyone had the authority to change the Sabbath.
 
T

tonto

Guest
You ignore context. The ten commandments were given to whom? It is law. New Testament believer's live by the spirit and not by the law. The law saves no one. That does not mean that God's moral code is done away with. Where is your common sense?

Matthew 22:34-40New International Version (NIV)

The Greatest Commandment

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. [SUP]35 [/SUP]One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: [SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

The Sabbath is not on Sunday. The Sabbath is on Saturday but New Testament believer's don't observe the Sabbath. Only Jews do and some cults. Believer's have the Lord's Day which coincides with the resurrection which is on Sunday. The Sabbath is not the Lord's Day and the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath.
Who gave you the authority to change the Sabbath Day? God himself established it. Do you think God had no idea when he established the Sabbath Day that there would be people who believed other than the Jews. Nice try but no sale.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Just a bunch of flowered up excuses for changing the Sabbath day without being given the authority to do so. Nowhere in the Bible was it ever said that anyone had the authority to change the Sabbath.
Thus saith Ellen G. White.
 
T

tonto

Guest
Thus saith Ellen G. White.
Again, I've never read any of her work. I base my beliefs wholly on the simple and plain scriptures of the Bible. I am not SDA or JW, or Catholic. I am far worse than any of these. I am a realist not taken to Walt Disney nursery rhymes or science fiction.
I believe each and every single scripture of the Bible. I do not pick and choose nor do I twist them.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Again, I've never read any of her work. I base my beliefs wholly on the simple and plain scriptures of the Bible. I am not SDA or JW, or Catholic. I am far worse than any of these. I am a realist not taken to Walt Disney nursery rhymes or science fiction.
I believe each and every single scripture of the Bible. I do not pick and choose nor do I twist them.
Well, by remarkable coincidence then, you are in perfect communion with the false prophecies of Ellen G. White, straight down the line.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Tonto,

Can you not see that you are preaching to a brick wall? Plenty of Bible verses have been quoted to show that what you and others are saying is true. Ever heard of the phrase 'beating the dead horse'?
But somehow have a feeling the dead horse will be turned to mush. There were these "guys" here, Scuba and Sola_Scriptora, who must be evidence for reincarnation, wink, wink.
 
T

tonto

Guest
Well, by remarkable coincidence then, you are in perfect communion with the false prophecies of Ellen G. White, straight down the line.
Then she must have had something correct.

You as a Catholic have enough of your own skeletons. How can you possibly point out any other Christian denomination's shortcomings? So they had a false prophet. So what?

The RCC has committed more murders in the name of Christ than probably even radical Islam. You have enslaved even the Yaki Indians of Mexico, imposed the Inquisitions in Spain, and set yourself up to rule over nations. Your own clergy has committed rape and sodomy upon young boys and men. You have had Popes who even backed the Nazis. You refuse to kick Nancy Poloski and Vice-President Biden out of the Church even though they support abortion, yet you condemn the SDA for that White woman and for keeping the Sabbath? Shame on you.
 
T

tonto

Guest
Tonto,

Can you not see that you are preaching to a brick wall? Plenty of Bible verses have been quoted to show that what you and others are saying is true. Ever heard of the phrase 'beating the dead horse'?
Horse or Jackass?
 

LRG

Banned
Jun 14, 2014
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Just a bunch of flowered up excuses for changing the Sabbath day without being given the authority to do so. Nowhere in the Bible was it ever said that anyone had the authority to change the Sabbath.
Are you really that deceived that you can not see what is right in front of your face? You've been busted. The Sabbath and the Lord's Day are not the same. Repeat after me 100 times, The Sabbath and the Lord's Day are not the same, The Sabbath and the Lord's Day are not the same,.......
 

LRG

Banned
Jun 14, 2014
312
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Then she must have had something correct.

You as a Catholic have enough of your own skeletons. How can you possibly point out any other Christian denomination's shortcomings? So they had a false prophet. So what?

The RCC has committed more murders in the name of Christ than probably even radical Islam. You have enslaved even the Yaki Indians of Mexico, imposed the Inquisitions in Spain, and set yourself up to rule over nations. Your own clergy has committed rape and sodomy upon young boys and men. You have had Popes who even backed the Nazis. You refuse to kick Nancy Poloski and Vice-President Biden out of the Church even though they support abortion, yet you condemn the SDA for that White woman and for keeping the Sabbath? Shame on you.
You state and I quote:

"So they had a false prophet. So what?"

Well, being a false prophet was a big deal in Old Testament times since the punishment for being such was being stoned to death.

Anyone without 100 percent accuracy is a false prophet. People shouldn't be going around pretending they are prophets and some of these people probably have a mental illness like schizophrenia where they think they hear God talk to them audibly.
Not really something to fool around with in my opinion.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Horse or Jackass?
The truth is, you are one of the darkest and most vicious people on this website. Whatever you believe, I would flee from, for its obvious production of the darkness and slanderous deceit in you.
 

LRG

Banned
Jun 14, 2014
312
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Who gave you the authority to change the Sabbath Day? God himself established it. Do you think God had no idea when he established the Sabbath Day that there would be people who believed other than the Jews. Nice try but no sale.
You seem to have a mental block. No one changed the Sabbath Day. Christians don't observe the Sabbath. The Sabbath and the Lord's Day are not the same. You need to write that out on paper over and over until it really sinks in. You seem to have trouble understanding that for some reason. Perhaps willful stubbornness?
 

LRG

Banned
Jun 14, 2014
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That's okay. People don't understand me, either.
Yes but who wants to be like everyone else? I like being different.

Maybe you are talking above and over their heads.

Happens to me all the time.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Yes but who wants to be like everyone else? I like being different.

Maybe you are talking above and over their heads.

Happens to me all the time.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

LRG

Banned
Jun 14, 2014
312
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LOL!! The RCC adopted many pagan doctrines. They even adopted the Babylonian Mystery Religion's day for worshipping the sun good. The baptism of infants is unbiblical and totally useless. Your idea of Purgatory or Hell comes straight from Platoism and Dante's Inferno. The RCC is the Great Whore of Revelation.
Hey, your religious affiliation is showing. You really sound like an SDA.

My point regarding the Catholics pertains only to the subject of the Sabbath and the Lord's Day so what you are saying doesn't matter. Can't you stick to the subject or is it that when you are proven wrong you need to act like a slippery snake?

I'm not Catholic by the way, in case you want to accuse me of that in the future.

Purgatory is not real but Hell is. Hopefully you don't find that out one day because there is no way out. Eternity is a very long time so is it not in your best interest to examine your doctrine against the scriptures and just stop listening to deceived men? Men or Ellen White cannot save you because they can't even save themselves. Never base your doctrine on any man but only on the scriptures.
 

LRG

Banned
Jun 14, 2014
312
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1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Yes, that's about right.

Satan still has them blinded.