What did the Jew receive first?
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Good question.
God promised Abraham that all the peoples of the earth would be blessed through him (his seed).
Paul tells us that God's promise does not say "seeds," but "seed," meaning Christ.
Then God promised Abraham that a son coming from his own body would be heir to the promise.
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
I think Jesus means that Abraham saw the Redeemer in the promise of Isaac,
just as he saw heaven in the promise of Canaan (Heb 11:13-16).
Do you think Abraham understood the specifics of redemption,
that the Redeemer would die a sacrificial atoning death for sin?
God promised Abraham that all the peoples of the earth would be blessed through him (his seed).
Paul tells us that God's promise does not say "seeds," but "seed," meaning Christ.
Then God promised Abraham that a son coming from his own body would be heir to the promise.
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
I think Jesus means that Abraham saw the Redeemer in the promise of Isaac,
just as he saw heaven in the promise of Canaan (Heb 11:13-16).
Do you think Abraham understood the specifics of redemption,
that the Redeemer would die a sacrificial atoning death for sin?
There was atonement through the blood of goats and bulls . . .
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book and all the people, Saying This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. . . . .And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission Heb. 9:18-20,22
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is NOT POSSIBLE that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. . . . . By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all . . . But this man after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God . . . For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. . . . Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; . . . .Hebrews 10:3,4,10,12,14,19,20
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book and all the people, Saying This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. . . . .And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission Heb. 9:18-20,22
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is NOT POSSIBLE that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. . . . . By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all . . . But this man after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God . . . For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. . . . Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; . . . .Hebrews 10:3,4,10,12,14,19,20
Oh dear!! Have you read anything else about blood? It would be nice if you could understand. Remember that Abel sacrificed with blood and Cain with work of his own hands? How about how scripture explains sacrifices required blood before we had the blood of Christ? Have you read how blood was used to satisfy idols and then Hebrews used it in their sacrifices in the same way. The book of Isaiah rings with outrage over that, and over any worship and celebration not done in spirit and truth of the Lord. Isaiah's outrage sounds like Paul's outrage over the Jews trying to teach the Galatians to be Christians through rituals. It is the blood of Christ, the blood of the lamb from Genesis to Revelation.
I was just rereading some of what has been posted about these questions, this post is so thoughtful.
Abraham truly did not understand the specifics. Many of the directions the Hebrews were given couldn't possibly be completely understood, yet blindly, like little children having faith in a parent, many of them followed in faith. God credited it to them as if they completely understood it all, God accepted their faith. God knew their faith was complete because they could act on it. They hadn't heard their doing was only filthy rags so they need not do anything.
That is how God wants us to listen to Him, not with why? What is the meaning? Could we get by not acting on this? What is the meaning of that word, are you sure Lord that is what you mean? If you said such and such it surely means that something else you said doesn't have any value? He loves us, and what God says stems from that love.
God know what He is doing when God gives us instructions, we are His creation made to follow in perfect confidence in those instructions as from a loving, caring God.
Abraham truly did not understand the specifics. Many of the directions the Hebrews were given couldn't possibly be completely understood, yet blindly, like little children having faith in a parent, many of them followed in faith. God credited it to them as if they completely understood it all, God accepted their faith. God knew their faith was complete because they could act on it. They hadn't heard their doing was only filthy rags so they need not do anything.
That is how God wants us to listen to Him, not with why? What is the meaning? Could we get by not acting on this? What is the meaning of that word, are you sure Lord that is what you mean? If you said such and such it surely means that something else you said doesn't have any value? He loves us, and what God says stems from that love.
God know what He is doing when God gives us instructions, we are His creation made to follow in perfect confidence in those instructions as from a loving, caring God.
In the New Testament it says there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile,everybody gets the same salvation and privilege.
Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and Gentiles were included.
The truth is only Jews can belong to the kingdom of God and be saved.
That is why the Bible says when you are saved you are a Jew inward because only Jews can belong to the kingdom of God and no matter what skin color and race when you are saved you become a Jew inward and are a Jew and can belong to the kingdom of God.
Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and Gentiles were included.
The truth is only Jews can belong to the kingdom of God and be saved.
That is why the Bible says when you are saved you are a Jew inward because only Jews can belong to the kingdom of God and no matter what skin color and race when you are saved you become a Jew inward and are a Jew and can belong to the kingdom of God.
From page 29 post 568. It would be good if we could answer the question about God's blessings given to His own children relating to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. This is what the thread is about. I tend to think that many think this is not worth discussing.
It has been established that we, as Gentiles, have access to salvation that the Jews received through Christ by the seed of Abraham. Post #546
Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Romans 11:1 I say then , Hath God cast away his people? God forbid . For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
As Gentiles, can we expect these same blessings (in Spiritual relation) listed below as was promised to the Jews?
Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Deuteronomy 28:2-6
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in , and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
If you take God's law to heart, wherever you go, whatever you have, and whatever you do will be a blessing.
Deuteronomy 28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
Your enemies that come against you will be scattered, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Whatever works you do will be fruitful, and you will be blessed with what God has given you, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 28:9-10
9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, and keep His commandments, He will confirm the truth to His own but your adversary will reveal his fear by denouncing this truth.
Deuteronomy 28:11-12
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, you will have need of nothing because the fruit of the Spirit will fill your heart, and you will be equipped to share this increase of your faith.
Deuteronomy 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
You may be seen as the last, or even the underdog, but the last shall be first and you will not be under the curse of the law if you accept and desire the commandments of the LORD your God, that He has commanded to you this day, to observe and to do them. You are blessed!
It has been established that we, as Gentiles, have access to salvation that the Jews received through Christ by the seed of Abraham. Post #546
Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Romans 11:1 I say then , Hath God cast away his people? God forbid . For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
As Gentiles, can we expect these same blessings (in Spiritual relation) listed below as was promised to the Jews?
Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Deuteronomy 28:2-6
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in , and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
If you take God's law to heart, wherever you go, whatever you have, and whatever you do will be a blessing.
Deuteronomy 28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
Your enemies that come against you will be scattered, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Whatever works you do will be fruitful, and you will be blessed with what God has given you, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 28:9-10
9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, and keep His commandments, He will confirm the truth to His own but your adversary will reveal his fear by denouncing this truth.
Deuteronomy 28:11-12
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, you will have need of nothing because the fruit of the Spirit will fill your heart, and you will be equipped to share this increase of your faith.
Deuteronomy 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
You may be seen as the last, or even the underdog, but the last shall be first and you will not be under the curse of the law if you accept and desire the commandments of the LORD your God, that He has commanded to you this day, to observe and to do them. You are blessed!
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Absolutely! Galatians 3:7 (NAS) “Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.” And verse 14 of the same chapter: “…in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
This establishes our position with God. There can be no denying that 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century Christians are in line to receive the same blessings as ancient Israel, according to the Word of God.
Hebrews 8:10 (NAS) "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Psalm 105:8 - He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,
1 Chronicles 16:15 - Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations.
Deuteronomy 28 spells out more than twenty-five blessings for those in covenant with God! However, the more than sixty curses reserved for Covenant breakers put things firmly in perspective. History plainly reveals what happened when the children of Israel forgot about their part of the Covenant with God – just like Christians today.
Why would anyone dare think we can practice a watered down Christianity and still expect all of God’s blessings, benefits, joy, peace, etc.?
This establishes our position with God. There can be no denying that 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century Christians are in line to receive the same blessings as ancient Israel, according to the Word of God.
Hebrews 8:10 (NAS) "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Psalm 105:8 - He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,
1 Chronicles 16:15 - Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations.
Deuteronomy 28 spells out more than twenty-five blessings for those in covenant with God! However, the more than sixty curses reserved for Covenant breakers put things firmly in perspective. History plainly reveals what happened when the children of Israel forgot about their part of the Covenant with God – just like Christians today.
Why would anyone dare think we can practice a watered down Christianity and still expect all of God’s blessings, benefits, joy, peace, etc.?
C
Regarding filthy rags, it is written: "You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean,and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags."
They are not referring to the righteous acts of those who gladly do right, who remember His ways.
They are referring to the so called righteous acts of those who forget His ways, continue to sin against them and teach others the same witnessed by those preaching against the law here.
Regarding God's righteous, it is written: "I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness."
Who sought to establish their own righteousness if not those who disregard more than half of the Word of God spoken through Moses and the prophets and fit the remaining Word of God into the theology they have made up?
Just as He says echoing what He said previously through Isaiah: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules. You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions."
Regarding the hearts that are far from Him. Are they not those who wouldn't let go of the heart of stone? As it is written: "I will give a new heart and put a new spirit in you: I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."
What the Jews received first are those frequently quoted as "As it is written".
They are not referring to the righteous acts of those who gladly do right, who remember His ways.
They are referring to the so called righteous acts of those who forget His ways, continue to sin against them and teach others the same witnessed by those preaching against the law here.
Regarding God's righteous, it is written: "I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness."
Who sought to establish their own righteousness if not those who disregard more than half of the Word of God spoken through Moses and the prophets and fit the remaining Word of God into the theology they have made up?
Just as He says echoing what He said previously through Isaiah: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules. You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions."
Regarding the hearts that are far from Him. Are they not those who wouldn't let go of the heart of stone? As it is written: "I will give a new heart and put a new spirit in you: I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."
What the Jews received first are those frequently quoted as "As it is written".
Wait a minute!! Just because you don't see the depth of truth given in the OT (bulk of the bible), it is not for you to knock those who see and appreciate them as mysteries given. To each his own.
But I agree the NT does expand on them, so once you understand the mysteries of the OT, it helps a lot to see how the NT fills it out! Just look how Jesus explained the directions in living the OT gave. And Paul expanded on the meaning of the rituals as he told us to use the Holy Spirit to replace them! It is just that it is a pitfall for people to only learn mysteries as the NT expands on the old, filling out those mysteries and explaining them doesn't take the place of learning both, just muddles understanding.
But I agree the NT does expand on them, so once you understand the mysteries of the OT, it helps a lot to see how the NT fills it out! Just look how Jesus explained the directions in living the OT gave. And Paul expanded on the meaning of the rituals as he told us to use the Holy Spirit to replace them! It is just that it is a pitfall for people to only learn mysteries as the NT expands on the old, filling out those mysteries and explaining them doesn't take the place of learning both, just muddles understanding.
My own is to go with Paul who stated these were "mysteries,"
whose NT meaning is revelation never before given.
Not quite. . .
Where in the OT do you find:
faith in the blood of Jesus is atonement (Ro 3:25),
God's sovereign choice in rejecting Israel (Ro 9-11),
The olive tree, the one body of Christ, in whom abide branches of Israel and of Gentiles (Ro 11),
All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse (Gal 3:10),
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to Christ only (Gal 3:16),
All of God's promises, no matter how many there are, are locked up in Jesus Christ (2 Co 1:20),
Believers in Christ are the seed of Abraham and hiers according to the promise
(Gal 3:29),
Believers are seated now in the heavenlies with Christ (Eph 2:6),
Believers are the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) because
Believers are the wife of Christ (Eph 5:31-32), in the
two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:28-32),
Believers were chosen to be sanctified before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4),
Believers were predestined to be adopted as sons of God (Eph 1:5),
All things were created by Christ, in heaven, earth, visible, invisible, spiritual forces (Col 1:16),
All things are sustained by Christ (Col 1:17),
etc.,etc., etc.
whose NT meaning is revelation never before given.
Not quite. . .
Where in the OT do you find:
faith in the blood of Jesus is atonement (Ro 3:25),
God's sovereign choice in rejecting Israel (Ro 9-11),
The olive tree, the one body of Christ, in whom abide branches of Israel and of Gentiles (Ro 11),
All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse (Gal 3:10),
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to Christ only (Gal 3:16),
All of God's promises, no matter how many there are, are locked up in Jesus Christ (2 Co 1:20),
Believers in Christ are the seed of Abraham and hiers according to the promise
(Gal 3:29),
Believers are seated now in the heavenlies with Christ (Eph 2:6),
Believers are the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) because
Believers are the wife of Christ (Eph 5:31-32), in the
two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:28-32),
Believers were chosen to be sanctified before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4),
Believers were predestined to be adopted as sons of God (Eph 1:5),
All things were created by Christ, in heaven, earth, visible, invisible, spiritual forces (Col 1:16),
All things are sustained by Christ (Col 1:17),
etc.,etc., etc.
Because in your personal mind you have cancelled all the OT tells you is truth, deciding that the changes Christ made means you must start completely new with Christ, you have colored all the meaning of scripture for each of these scriptures. You would have to cleanse your mind of what it has made of scripture by learning first from only the epistles, without relating them to basic truth and start to know Christ fresh. You would have to sit humbly at the feet of the Lord putting on only the mind of Christ, and reprogram your mind to only scripture. It would take you dedication and many, many days of hours. Then Christ in all these scriptures would come clear to you. All scripture would agree. In the meantime, you personally take yourself to Christ for cleansing, and you are sure of yourself so you cannot hear anything that lets you grow beyond this sort of brick wall you have erected around some scripture saying Christ did away with it. There are many truths you do accept. Either let yourself grow or be content and thankful for what you have. Only don't tell everyone else to stop where you are. You can say what you believe, but all your "nope" stuff is unacceptable.