Conditional Salvation

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Mar 12, 2014
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Never confuse the fruit of salvation with any conditions for same. There are no conditions for salvation, on our part. All the conditions for our salvation were fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ. And in Him alone.

That is the essence of the gospel, wherein God's righteousness is revealed. All who are saved believe this gospel. Those who are still ignorant about this righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, do not believe the gospel and are lost. Even if they are ever so zealous for God.

No unbeliever will be saved, Jn 3:18 so belief on your part is a necessary condition to be saved
No impenitent person can be saved, Lk 13:3,5; Rom 2:4,5 so repentance on your part is a necessary condition to be saved
No denier of Christ can be saves, Mt 10:32,33;Rom 10:9,10; 2 Tim 2:12 so confession is a necessary condition to be saved
No person in his unremitted/unforgiven sins can be saved so baptism for remission of sins Acts 2:38 is a necessary condition to be saved
No Christian that errs from the truth and loses his faith can be saved, 2 Pet 2:20-22; James 5:19,20; therefore the necessary condition of remaining faithful unto death is necessary to being saved, Rev 2:10;
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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your understanding is different from God's....
John 8:43-45King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

if you stop listening to God the devil becomes your father.......
Jesus was speaking to unregenerate people not to Christians. Christians hear and know the Lords voice. I was born a child of the devil and I was born again a child of God. There is no going back and I have no desire to go back. It is a mystery to me why some continue to postulate that they can return to darkness.

Your position is completely inconsistent with biblical Christianity. I can only surmise that the overwhelming majority of those professing Christ do not possess Christ. They have a head knowledge but have never received Christ into their hearts. Saved by their will and not by the will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Yet,, those that belong to Christ have Crucified the flesh of its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24
But those that fall from Christ return to the sins/pollution of this world, as a hog returns to wallowing in the mire.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Christ is our righteousness. That's the good news. God's righteousness becomes our righteousness through Christ. Good luck with trying to become righteous through the law.

One must CONDITIONALLY be IN CHRIST to be clothed in Christ's righteousness and one can fall from Christ and His perfect righteousness by faithlessness.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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One must CONDITIONALLY be IN CHRIST to be clothed in Christ's righteousness and one can fall from Christ and His perfect righteousness by faithlessness.
Nonsense.

First one needs to be IN CHRIST by trusting the Savior and being Spirit baptized into His body. How can unsaved persons who never trusted Christ as Savior to begin with, come on a Christian site & try to tell God's children what it's all about?

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.
Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.




Rom 4:16

For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.


Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
CONDITIONS ARE FULFILLED BY GOD ALMIGHTY!

CONDITIONS OF SALVATION

And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
[CONDITION 1] He foreknew,
[CONDITION 2] He also foreordainted,
to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
[CONDITION 3] He also called; and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
[CONDITION 4] He justified, them
[CONDITION 5] He also glorified, he also glorified.

Actually all the conditions were fulfilled the moment God foreknew!
And that happened in eternity past.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Nonsense.

First one needs to be IN CHRIST by trusting the Savior and being Spirit baptized into His body. How can unsaved persons who never trusted Christ as Savior to begin with, come on a Christian site & try to tell God's children what it's all about?

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.
Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.




Rom 4:16

For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.


Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

No doubt as his conditional salvation is based upon his total lack of understand when it comes to the conditions that surround our biblical salvation which is eternal, and based upon the completed work of Christ, received by faith, and justified by the OFFERING of BLOOD that Jesus offered on the mercy seat, of the which the Heavenly Father received and accepted...

WHEN I see the BLOOD I will pass over you......

HE didn't say...when I see the BLOOD, WATER, WORKS I will pass over you!
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
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Jesus was speaking to unregenerate people not to Christians. Christians hear and know the Lords voice. I was born a child of the devil and I was born again a child of God. There is no going back and I have no desire to go back. It is a mystery to me why some continue to postulate that they can return to darkness.

Your position is completely inconsistent with biblical Christianity. I can only surmise that the overwhelming majority of those professing Christ do not possess Christ. They have a head knowledge but have never received Christ into their hearts. Saved by their will and not by the will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would like to see some historical evidence of such a claim.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
No doubt as his conditional salvation is based upon his total lack of understand when it comes to the conditions that surround our biblical salvation which is eternal, and based upon the completed work of Christ, received by faith, and justified by the OFFERING of BLOOD that Jesus offered on the mercy seat, of the which the Heavenly Father received and accepted...

WHEN I see the BLOOD I will pass over you......

HE didn't say...when I see the BLOOD, WATER, WORKS I will pass over you!
Could you explain what Christ accomplished on the Cross that we need to accept by faith>
 
Dec 12, 2013
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that we need to accept by faith>
He accomplished numerous things such as...and NOTE the COMPLETED WORK OF CHRIST

1. He fulfilled the will of the Father which was given before the casting down of the world
2. He fulfilled the requirements of the law in humanity
3. He secured our eternal redemption (buy back) for the ones who genuinely BELIEVE
4. He secured eternal justification in the eyes of the Father for all who genuinely BELIEVE
5. He secure eternal SALVATION for those who will be found in Christ by FAITH

ONE OFFERING for SINS FOR EVER!

Just to name 5....IF YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD HAS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD!

AND I see by your post you ADDED to what I SAID, and changed what I said, which most people who teach works/water do!

based upon the completed work of Christ, received by faith,
<----I said
Could you explain what Christ accomplished on the Cross <----YOU SAID

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No doubt as his conditional salvation is based upon his total lack of understand when it comes to the conditions that surround our biblical salvation which is eternal, and based upon the completed work of Christ, received by faith, and justified by the OFFERING of BLOOD that Jesus offered on the mercy seat, of the which the Heavenly Father received and accepted...

WHEN I see the BLOOD I will pass over you......

HE didn't say...when I see the BLOOD, WATER, WORKS I will pass over you!
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
He accomplished numerous things such as...and NOTE the COMPLETED WORK OF CHRIST

1. He fulfilled the will of the Father which was given before the casting down of the world
2. He fulfilled the requirements of the law in humanity
3. He secured our eternal redemption (buy back) for the ones who genuinely BELIEVE
4. He secured eternal justification in the eyes of the Father for all who genuinely BELIEVE
5. He secure eternal SALVATION for those who will be found in Christ by FAITH

ONE OFFERING for SINS FOR EVER!

Just to name 5....IF YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD HAS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD!

AND I see by your post you ADDED to what I SAID, and changed what I said, which most people who teach works/water do!

based upon the completed work of Christ, received by faith,
<----I said
Could you explain what Christ accomplished on the Cross <----YOU SAID

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
No doubt as his conditional salvation is based upon his total lack of understand when it comes to the conditions that surround our biblical salvation which is eternal, and based upon the completed work of Christ, received by faith, and justified by the OFFERING of BLOOD that Jesus offered on the mercy seat, of the which the Heavenly Father received and accepted...

WHEN I see the BLOOD I will pass over you......

HE didn't say...when I see the BLOOD, WATER, WORKS I will pass over you!
But He accomplished none of those things on the Cross. His Cross work makes it possible for man to have union with God. Every single one of your statements uses the word faith or believes. Unless you can show that Christ saved you individually from the Cross by believing for you, your individual salvation was not done on the Cross or by His death and resurrection.

The way you stated it, what Christ did was never accomplished unless or except one believe what He did. Does your faith somehow complete Christ's death, or His resurrection?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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But He accomplished none of those things on the Cross. His Cross work makes it possible for man to have union with God. Every single one of your statements uses the word faith or believes. Unless you can show that Christ saved you individually from the Cross by believing for you, your individual salvation was not done on the Cross or by His death and resurrection.

The way you stated it, what Christ did was never accomplished unless or except one believe what He did. Does your faith somehow complete Christ's death, or His resurrection?
Dude, you don't even make sense....quite simple...Jesus did the work...we cease from our own works when we trust into HIS work and HIS faith by faith and your reasoning seems flawed a bit...Jesus didn't come to please me and my faith or lack thereof does NOT alleviate what Christ has done for humanity as he was pleasing the FATHER and not us...!

KEY WORDS--->COMPLETED WORK OF CHRIST<---death, burial and resurrection!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
I would like to see some historical evidence of such a claim.
I would like to see you come to a true saving knowledge of Christ. Then you would have the capacity to receive the fullness of Gods revelation.

Conditional salvation is not salvation. Grace saves completely or it saves not at all. God gives or God withholds man is able to contribute nothing of merit. God is not capricious. God saves and does not go back on His word. The arm of Jehovah is not shortened that He cannot save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
James 5:19,20 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."
[He shall save His people from their sins.]

"Brethren" James is referring to Christians [but not to persons playing church]

" if any of you do err from the truth" Logically one cannot err from the truth if he was never in the truth. [illogical, many err from the truth who never knew the truth]
[He shall save His people from their sins.]

John says "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God."
[The doctrine of Christ is that He is YHWH, 2nd person of the trinity, God who became man with a real body -- to deny any of that implies you were never saved and never had God.]

So [sic. Famous SeeBass false use of "So"]
any brother that errs from the truth, the gospel
[FALSE, SNEAKY SEABASS INSERTION -- WATCH OUT FOR HIS SOPHISTRY! GOSPEL IS NOT THERE!]

of Christ and abides not in the doctrine of Christ HATH NOT GOD.

[False sophistry. Christians err from the truth in many ways & often. This is hardly failing to abide in "the doctrine of Christ," that He is YHWH & man]

"and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death..."
[He shall save His people from their sins.]

This erring one is here referred to as a 'sinner' who needs to be converted from spiritual death
[Sneaky insert of "spiritual" where it does not occur in the text! He shall save His people from their sins.]

and converted back to the truth, the gospel of Christ where he can then abide in the doctrine of Christ again. . .

[He shall save His people from their sins.]

Brethren refers to those who trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, not to heretics who are "church members" and try to pervert the gospel by making works (like the water idol) save.
[He shall save His people from their sins.]

19 My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.


1 Cor 5 3 For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, 4 in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Destruction of the flesh means physical death. Even
the Christian who is a gross sinner,
will be saved; however, he is not permitted to go on in gross sin without chastisement, which can be severe.

But that Christians endure once they are born again to be children of God is taught plainly & overtly in the Bible, requiring not twisting of verses off topic for proof.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2013
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Logically, one cannot fall from God's grace unless he was first in God's grace.
Human logic is never the best way to measure God's word.

One can fall out of the principle of grace wherein one's salvation is a gift through faith only,

and into the principle of law wherein one's salvation is earned by law-keeping.

To fall away from the principle of grace for salvation means one never had the fact (possession) of grace in the first place.




 
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I would like to see you come to a true saving knowledge of Christ. Then you would have the capacity to receive the fullness of Gods revelation.

Conditional salvation is not salvation. Grace saves completely or it saves not at all. God gives or God withholds man is able to contribute nothing of merit. God is not capricious. God saves and does not go back on His word. The arm of Jehovah is not shortened that He cannot save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
And whatsoever GOD does it is ETERNAL...NOTHING ADDED and NOTHING TAKEN AWAY and HE DID THIS SO MEN WOULD FEAR HIM ...Ecclesiastes 3:14.....IF humanity can ADD to or SUBTRACT FROM WHAT GOD does (including salvation) then he is NOT MUCH OF A GOD!
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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But He accomplished none of those things on the Cross [lie!]. His Cross work makes it possible for man to have union with God. Every single one of your statements uses the word faith or believes. Unless you can show that Christ saved you individually from the Cross by believing for you, [straw man] your individual salvation was not done on the Cross or by His death and resurrection. [False inference]
Now everyone look at the above. Cassian typically just says things, no Bible quotes for any of it. Thus it can just be rejected.

Cassian may think that he is superior to others who are not in his denomination, but his supposed superiority is a figment of his imagination. Cassian believes in his denomination. As for me, I believe God's Word. "It is written!"

It is finished!

I could say that LS Chafer laid it all out, but who can lay out all what God has done for his elect?

Chafer&#39;s 33 Things U Get When Saved (I count 46) - Conversion / - BIBLE FORUM


Thou shalt call his name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
 
May 2, 2014
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And who is so famous for ignoring scripture & just posting as is Cassian? Look at your post, not one verse! Is it not a fact that you don't follow scripture anyway, but what your denomination pontificates? Don't you claim that your denomination is the pillar & ground of truth & superior to the Bible, which only means what you say it means? And thus you make human tradition the authority instead of God's word. Does that no explain why you pontificate instead of proving from the Bible?

Here is how to be saved; & over & over it is repeated without any works or water, & without any Eastern orthodox denomination:


Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith,


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace;


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.


[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? (Rom 8:24 NKJ)


8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold."
9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham;
10 "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." (Luk 19:8-10 NKJ)

No Faith

I guess we don't faith since these passages don't mention it. Actually, your argument is a logical fallacy known as the argument from silence. You see, the same fallacious argument can be used against Faith too

 
May 2, 2014
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There are two sides to salvation:
1) man's faithfulness to God
2) God's faithfulness to man

Eternal securists will quote the verses that speak of God's faithfulness to man (and "claim" that God's faithfulness is due to eternal security) while ignoring the verses that speak of man having to be faithful to God. Of course those that are faithful to God, God in turn will be faithful to them. God's faithfulness to you depends on your faithfulness to Him...eternal security had nothing to do with it. No one is saved UNconditionally to begin with so no one can continue to be saved UNconditionally either.

I agree totally. OSAS is based on fallacious arguments.