Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Atwood]

Re: Salvation Is Not Possible for the Self-Righteous Who Claims Works

God knows Christians cannot be perfectly sinless on their own so God allowed the avenue of repentance for Christians when they sin. So those Christians that continue to walk in the light (confess and repent of sins) Christ blood continues to wash away ALL, not some, but ALL of their sins ( 1 Jn 1:7) leaving the Christian spotless and blameless, Eph 1:4; 2 Pet 3:14,

How can anyone be "walking in the light" when he is sinning? When you are sinning, you are not walking in the light. Sins are not paid for by man being sorry for them. Only Christ's atonement pays for sins. The repentance needed is to repent of not trusting Christ as Savior, to repent of making water an idol, to repent of demoting Christ to chance-giver instead of Savior. The change of mind repentance that saves is from non-belief to belief in the Son of God.

The change of mind needed is from self-righteous Pharisee to the Publican who cries out, "God be merciful to me a sinner."

 

[Atwood]

The bible does not define baptism as a work man does. Col 2:11,12 God is the one that does the work (operation KJV) when one is baptized. God does the work while the person being baptized remains passive.

All those who do not believe AND baptized are unsaved, God is not a respect of persons.

Why do you keep saying "baptized" instead of immersed?

Biblical water-immersion is a work done by men. Nowhere in the Bible does God ever water-immerse anyone.

Why don't you answer the question direct? Are you afraid to answer?

Inasmuch as water-baptism is a work, let us ask you to give a straight answer to this question, O SeaBass:

What happens to a believer in the Son of God, if he fails to get immersed?

What happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?

Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?

 

[Atwood]

I can show it, click my article

Faith does not SAVE us

"Your faith has saved you!"

 

[Elin]

Faith does not SAVE us.

"Your faith has saved you!"

Which is precisely the gospel principle the miracle was to demonstrate.

 

[Powemm]

Practical application of Gods instruction

 

[DiscipleDave]

Re: FAITH SAVES

Faith does not SAVE us.

Man's one & only essential part in the salvation process is belief/faith. Abe believed God, & it was reckoned to him for righteousness.

You said the Truth. As you say above, it is only PART of what is needed for one to be SAVED. If you would have read my article you have seen that i agree with you, that Faith is only a part of what it takes for one to be SAVED, Faith ONLY will not save a person, nor ever save them, that teaching is also backed up by the Word of God.

This is repeated over & over in scripture:

Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

If you wish to debate it, I can fill up the forum with verses, but it will take more than 1 post -- too much for one post.

i agree. it most definitely would. and i agree with you, that it is only PART of it, as you yourself said in your first statement. Tell me if i am wrong, you seem to be indicating that all one needs to do is believe on Jesus and they are SAVED, nothing else required. if that is True, answer me this simple question.
Question: If a person believes in Jesus Christ, and that person claims to be SAVED, and under the Blood of Jesus, and under Grace. If that same person hates another, OR does not forgive another person for something they have done, are they still Heaven bound? What then, do you make void the Word of God which teaches, if you do not forgive others neither will your father forgive you? What about all the verses which teach those who hate others will not enter into the Kingdom of God. Apparently believing alone is not the WAY to Salvation. demons believe and KNOW that Jesus is the Son of God, they are not saved even though they believe He is God. Matters of fact if you read my articles on the website below you will find many Scriptures which plainly teach what it means to actually BELIEVE in Jesus. But will you read them?

 

[Elin]

Re: FAITH SAVES

You said the Truth. As you say above, it is only PART of what is needed for one to be SAVED. If you would have read my article you have seen that i agree with you, that Faith is only a part of what it takes for one to be SAVED, Faith ONLY will not save a person, nor ever save them, that teaching is also backed up by the Word of God.

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

i agree. it most definitely would. and i agree with you, that it is only PART of it, as you yourself said in your first statement. Tell me if i am wrong, you seem to be indicating that all one needs to do is believe on Jesus and they are SAVED, nothing else required. if that is True, answer me this simple question.
Question: If a person believes in Jesus Christ, and that person claims to be SAVED, and under the Blood of Jesus, and under Grace. If that same person hates another, OR does not forgive another person for something they have done, are they still Heaven bound? What then, do you make void the Word of God which teaches, if you do not forgive others neither will your father forgive you? What about all the verses which teach those who hate others will not enter into the Kingdom of God. Apparently believing alone is not the WAY to Salvation. demons believe and KNOW that Jesus is the Son of God, they are not saved even though they believe He is God. Matters of fact if you read my articles on the website below you will find many Scriptures which plainly teach what it means to actually BELIEVE in Jesus. But will you read them?

"Your faith has saved you!"

 

[newbirth]

Re: FAITH SAVES

"Your faith has saved you!"

your faith is alone....and therefore cannot save
note the actions of one whose faith has saved them..... [SUP]37 [/SUP]And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

[SUP]45 [/SUP]Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

[SUP]49 [/SUP]And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

 

[Elin]

Re: FAITH SAVES

"Your faith has saved you!"

Your faith is alone....and therefore cannot save

That's the only way it does save (Eph 2:8-9).

You are confusing salvation by "faith not works"

with "faith without works."

Two entirely different things.

 

[ELECT]

What it means by salvation not by works

Daniel 9:18King James Version (KJV)

18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.


Ephesians 2:8King James Version (KJV)


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves (our righteous works ) it is the gift of God:

Why
Isaiah 64:6King James Version (KJV)

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

No matter how much good work we do can never compare to God grace or else Jesus willl not have died However that does not say we should not do good works


Revelation 14:13King James Version (KJV)


13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[newbirth]

Re: FAITH SAVES

That's the only way it does save (Eph 2:8-9).

You are confusing salvation by "faith not works"

with "faith without works."

Two entirely different things.

so you are saying Jesus himself does not know what he is saying .....and you know better...IT is clear the woman's action is what Christ is referring to as faith....And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

[SUP]45 [/SUP]Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

 

[SeaBass]

What it means by salvation not by works

Daniel 9:18King James Version (KJV)

18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.


Ephesians 2:8King James Version (KJV)


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves (our righteous works ) it is the gift of God:

Why
Isaiah 64:6King James Version (KJV)

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

No matter how much good work we do can never compare to God grace or else Jesus willl not have died However that does not say we should not do good works


Revelation 14:13King James Version (KJV)


13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Acts 10:35 he that worketh righteousness is accepted with God

1 Jn 3:10 whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God

2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Rom 6:16 obedience unto righteous

1 Pet 1:22 purified your souls in obeying the truth

Rom 2:6,8 Who will render to every man according to his deeds.....But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

 

[SeaBass]

Re: Salvation Is Not Possible for the Self-Righteous Who Claims Works

How can anyone be "walking in the light" when he is sinning? When you are sinning, you are not walking in the light. Sins are not paid for by man being sorry for them. Only Christ's atonement pays for sins. The repentance needed is to repent of not trusting Christ as Savior, to repent of making water an idol, to repent of demoting Christ to chance-giver instead of Savior. The change of mind repentance that saves is from non-belief to belief in the Son of God.

The change of mind needed is from self-righteous Pharisee to the Publican who cries out, "God be merciful to me a sinner."

So John does not know what he was writing about when he told them to walk in the light?

Walking in the light means a Christian is repenting and confessing his sins whereby Christ's blood washes away all sins. Whereas faith only leaves one lost in is unforgiven sins.

 

[SeaBass]

Why do you keep saying "baptized" instead of immersed?

Biblical water-immersion is a work done by men. Nowhere in the Bible does God ever water-immerse anyone.

Why don't you answer the question direct? Are you afraid to answer?

Inasmuch as water-baptism is a work, let us ask you to give a straight answer to this question, O SeaBass:

What happens to a believer in the Son of God, if he fails to get immersed?

What happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?

Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?

Col 2:12-14 God is the one that does the work of removing the body of sin when one is immersed in water.

ANYONE NOT immersed remains lost in his unforgiven sins.


Can all the Pysbyterians Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians along with 1000's of other religious groups all have God's truth [Jn 17:17] when they all contradict each other over what they believe? NO!!!!!!
Truth does not contradict itself so that is proof they cannot all have God's truth. Lies are wrapped in contradiction and Satan is the father of lies so all the contradiction among these groups is of Satan.

Does God's truth save or is man saved by believing whatever he wants to even if they are contradictions everywhere?
No truth, no credibility, no God's word, no salvation in contradictions.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, what will you do? Didn't you say that ALL the commands have to be kept? And you have not done that.

Open your eyes man, get the Laodicean eye salve.

If man obeys God, then He has been already saved. The lost do not obey God.
If a man obeys God, then He is eligible for rewards, crowns as a Christian.
But works do not save. Trying to work for salvation is folly; such works will only condemn you.

Faith > Salvation > Works.

Not Works > Salvation.

So now you claim you can openly, defiantly disobey God's commands committing unrighteousness and still be saved?

1 Jn 3:10 he that continues to do unrighteousness continues to NOT be of God.

 

[SeaBass]

You should believe 6:10.

And BTW, what will you do on the day when your lusts in your heart are judged, Seabass. Have you committed adultery in you heart? Liars go to the Lake of Fire; how many lies have you told, SeaBass?

Heaven will be populated by men who were sinners. For He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.
He came for Publicans, not Pharisees.

1 Cor 6:9,10 the unrighteous which are the ones that DISOBEY God are the one's that will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[newbirth]

Why do you keep saying "baptized" instead of immersed?

Biblical water-immersion is a work done by men. Nowhere in the Bible does God ever water-immerse anyone.

Why don't you answer the question direct? Are you afraid to answer?

Inasmuch as water-baptism is a work, let us ask you to give a straight answer to this question, O SeaBass:

What happens to a believer in the Son of God, if he fails to get immersed?

What happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?

Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?

this is a question you should ask dcontrovesal ...I thought he made a thorough comment in another thread...

 

[elf3]

You know the saying "actions speak louder than words"? Look at God's actions. Then look at our actions. Who's actions are louder?

 

[newbirth]

Re: Salvation Is Not Possible for the Self-Righteous Who Claims Works

How can anyone be "walking in the light" when he is sinning? When you are sinning, you are not walking in the light. Sins are not paid for by man being sorry for them. Only Christ's atonement pays for sins. The repentance needed is to repent of not trusting Christ as Savior, to repent of making water an idol, to repent of demoting Christ to chance-giver instead of Savior. The change of mind repentance that saves is from non-belief to belief in the Son of God.

The change of mind needed is from self-righteous Pharisee to the Publican who cries out, "God be merciful to me a sinner."

when these cried out ...what shall we do ...what were they told...
Acts 2:37-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

has the gospel changed?....are you now telling men something new? is the gospel according to Atwood now being enforced?...

 

[Elin]

Re: FAITH SAVES

"Your faith has saved you!"

Your faith is alone....and therefore cannot save

That's the only way it does save (Eph 2:8-9).

You are confusing salvation by "faith not works" of Eph 2:8-9

with "faith without works" of Jas 2:26.

Two entirely different things.

so you are saying Jesus himself does not know what he is saying

I'm more inclined to think it is you who doesn't know.