God loves the sinner and hates the sin.

[Jason0047]

God loves all people is implied when He died for them while they were yet sinners,

John 3:16
Romans 5:6, 8, 10
Isaiah 53:6
Ephesians 2:1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Colossians 2:13
Titus 3:3, 4, 5
2 Corinthians 5:21

For we are to love as a way of life.

Matthew 5:44
1 Corinthians 13:4
2 John 1:5, 6, 7

 

[Jason0047]

In Luke 14:26 Jesus essentially said if you do not hate your family and your own life you cannot be his disciple. Does that mean you are to hate your family or your own life? No. This is an example of a figure of speech. In modern times, that would be like saying, “I hate Shakespeare.” Would the person who said that mean that he hated Shakespeare’s personality? No. We understand he would be saying he does not like the writings of Shakespeare, with no comment on the playwright’s personality.

If we apply that same figure of speech to the passages about God “hating sinners,” we can see that the sinner is put in place of the sin. Thus, when God says He hates “a false witness who speaks lies” (Proverbs 6:19), if a figure of speech is being used, then God hates the lies, and the one who is doing the lying (the cause) is put in place of the lies (the effect).

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, Jesus told us to pray for our enemies. Is that a loving thing or a hateful thing? Did not Stephen exhibit the love of God when he asked God not to hold his attackers sin against them? Did not Jesus (Who is God) show forth the love of God when He asked the Father to forgive those men who crucified him, for they knew not what they were doing? Does not John 3:16 say that God loves the world? Did not Christ die for us while we were yet sinners? Why would God (Christ) die for sinners if He has hate towards them?

 

[ChristIsGod]

God loves all people is implied when He died for them while they were yet sinners,

John 3:16
Romans 5:6, 8, 10
Isaiah 53:6
Ephesians 2:1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Colossians 2:13
Titus 3:3, 4, 5
2 Corinthians 5:21

For we are to love as a way of life.

Matthew 5:44
1 Corinthians 13:4
2 John 1:5, 6, 7

Glad you posted this, Brother.

Agree with your 2nd post as well. God 'is' love and can't go against His Own nature.

We choose whether to benefit from His love or not. Love doesn't force itself. He wants our love to come from our own hearts/decision.
As any man would want his bride to love him of her own choice and not because he forced the marriage on her.

Thank you!

 

[ChristIsGod]

and 3rd. Bless God!

 

[Zmouth]

How do you reconcile Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Had a Calvinist try to ride the issue hard that I had to accept that God hated people and
of course was labeled a cherry picker yet was interested how someone else would respond
to Paul's comments.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

How do you reconcile Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Had a Calvinist try to ride the issue hard that I had to accept that God hated people and
of course was labeled a cherry picker yet was interested how someone else would respond
to Paul's comments.

Seems like you would have to understand the way the word (hate) in hebrew was meant.
the word hate might take on a different meaning in english.

 

[Dogknox]

Glad you posted this, Brother.

Agree with your 2nd post as well. God 'is' love and can't go against His Own nature.

We choose whether to benefit from His love or not. Love doesn't force itself. He wants our love to come from our own hearts/decision.
As any man would want his bride to love him of her own choice and not because he forced the marriage on her.

Thank you!

Good to meet you...
YES: God is LOVE!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

ChristIsGod All men enter heaven through the "Door Of LOVE"! No one can enter heaven without entering through LOVE! The man without love, this man with ONLY FAITH is without God, he is God-Less! Also he is without hope all he has is Faith just "Faith ALONE"! "Faith ALONE is God-LESS he is HOPE-LESS!

Scripture below... Clearly: All men enter into heaven THROUGH Jesus: Jesus the GATE/DOOR is LOVE>> All men must enter through LOVE>> CANNOT enter by faith ALONE!!

John 10:9
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

ChristIsGod Also... The "Breastplate of RIGHTEOUSNESS" is made with love! Only those with LOVE>> Not faith ALONE can be righteous! Only the righteous can enter heaven they have LOVE, they have on the BREASTPLATE!!

Also the man with JUST FAITH cannot put on the Helmet of SALVATION it is made with hope, (below) the person with "Faith ALONE' is thus Hope-Less and God-Less!

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

 

[quickened77]

God loves all people is implied when He died for them while they were yet sinners,

John 3:16
Romans 5:6, 8, 10
Isaiah 53:6
Ephesians 2:1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Colossians 2:13
Titus 3:3, 4, 5
2 Corinthians 5:21

All people or all his elect?

Rev 3
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Heb 12
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So the question is does God love the bastard and if so why is he not chastened?

 

[Jason0047]

How do you reconcile Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Had a Calvinist try to ride the issue hard that I had to accept that God hated people and
of course was labeled a cherry picker yet was interested how someone else would respond
to Paul's comments.

You also must realize that the word "forever" does not always mean forever in the Bible either. See, the Bibles we have today are heavily influenced by the KJV (King James) which was written in Old English. I already addressed this point in my opening posts indirectly. I mention the word "hate." For the Scriptures say

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26).

In other words, does God want you to HATE your own life, HATE your mother, HATE your wife, HATE your own children, etc. so that you can be his disciple? No. Of course not. Jesus said that we are to pray for our enemies and to do good to those that despitefully use us. So the word "hate" here is talking about a "lesser degree of love."

God doesn't want you to hate people. God only wants you to love all people. He doesn't want you to love what they do; But He wants you to love them as souls and people who need a Savior.

 

[Jason0047]

God loves all people is implied when He died for them while they were yet sinners,

John 3:16
Romans 5:6, 8, 10
Isaiah 53:6
Ephesians 2:1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Colossians 2:13
Titus 3:3, 4, 5
2 Corinthians 5:21

All people or all his elect?

Rev 3
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Heb 12
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So the question is does God love the bastard and if so why is he not chastened?

If you are suggesting that God only hates sinners and love only his people, you would be wrong. Jesus said to the Father on the cross to forgive those who crucified Him for they know not what they do. Stephen (A man of God) told God not to hold their crimes of stoning him against them. Why? Because they have the love of God. Yet if what you propose is true, then we shouldn''t see anything like this, though.

 

[quickened77]

If you are suggesting that God only hates sinners and love only his people, you would be wrong. Jesus said to the Father on the cross to forgive those who crucified Him for they know not what they do. Stephen (A man of God) told God not to hold their crimes of stoning him against them. Why? Because they have the love of God. Yet if what you propose is true, then we shouldn''t see anything like this, though.

Where there not elect among the crowd ? Was nat Paul not among the crowd at Stevens stoning ?
So i will ask again does God love the bastard?

 

[Jason0047]

God is love (1 John 4:8). Scripture does not say, God is hate. Yes, God can be angry at sinners and God can hate sin, but you have to realize that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. God loves even in His wrath and anger just like a loving parent loves their child (even when they might be mad at them). So yes, God loves. It is a natural outpour of his very being. Yes, he will judge the wicked and end all sin and evil. But God is doing that because He loves.

 

[Tankman131]

[h=3]That's NOT in the Bible! "Hate the sin; love the sinner"[/h]
And the origin of the phrase goes to - St. Augustine and Gandhi - it’s a bookend tie! The phrase itself as we know it came directly from Gandhi’s 1929 autobiography. However, in Augustine’s letter 211, written around 424, is the phrase,



... Hating the sin while claiming to love the sinner gives us an opportunity to place more emphasis on the shortcomings of others rather than ourselves. In Matthew 7, Jesus told us to judge not, lest we should be judged. Concerning sin, he told us not to fuss about the speck of sawdust in our brother or sister’s eye when we’re blinded by a 2x4 plank in our own eye. Or, in John 8, a group of people point out to Jesus a woman who had been caught in adultery and remind him that the law teaches she should be stoned to death, and they want his response, and he says, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7).

In other words, it is quite inappropriate for us to go around pointing out the faults, shortcomings, failures, and weaknesses of others when we still have so many of our own. “Hate the sin; love the sinner” fails to meet this test because it focuses not on our own sin, but on that of someone else. The Scriptures clearly teach that “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:32), but the caution for Christians is to remember that this applies to us on the inside as well as those we perceive to be on the outside, and perhaps we who live in stained-glass houses should think twice before we start throwing stones.

https://carm.org/does-god-hate-anyone

God is love (1 John 4:8), but God also punishes the sinner and hates all who do iniquity. God is not one sided. He is not simply an infinitely loving God. He is also infinitely just. He must deal with sin. He must punish the sinner.
In the truth of God's word, we find that the Lord has provided one way by which we may be saved. That single way is through Jesus' sacrifice. For all who trust in Him, salvation will come. But to those who turn away, God's wrath abides upon them: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him," (John 3:36).
[h=2]Does God hate anyone?[/h]Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven whichare an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Are we to love the sinner but hate the sin?

Even as Christians, we cannot love perfectly, nor can we hate perfectly (i.e., without malice). But God can do both of these perfectly, because He is God. God can hate without any sinful intent. Therefore, He can hate the sin and the sinner in a perfectly holy way and still lovingly forgive the sinner at the moment of repentance and faith (Malachi 1:3; Revelation 2:6; 2 Peter 3:9).

Read more: Are we to love the sinner but hate the sin?

Do you love us enough to hear our heart?
[h=2]10. Avoid hate the sin, love the sinner rhetoric[/h]
Now take a minute to listen to yourselves. Hate the sin, love the sinner comes across as mean-spirited instead of loving. We hear it as an ill-disguised attempt to seem loving when you really don't even like us let alone love us.

When it comes to sexual orientation, it is impossible to separate the sin from the sinner. Your heterosexual orientation is not something you do, it's who you are. In the same way, our orientation is not something we do, it's who we are. You can't hate our “sin” without hating us. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. I'm just telling you how we perceive your rhetoric.

 

[Tankman131]

If you expect me to argue, then you are out of lick. Jason is a notorious scripture twister and im not in the mood to argue with someone willing to falsify scripture to support their pseudo-universalist unitarian beliefs.

 

[kedge]

It's an interesting concept, not quite sure about the title?. The sinner is the sin, the sin is the sinner?. Sometimes i look at things from a different perspective,the human body (although amazing by design) is simply just a means to carry the brain about on planet earth, in the brain is where a persons thoughts are processed, where one's attitude is developed, where one's choices are made. I don't see how genetics or molecules can determine or cause actions carried out by any one human being.

 

[TMS]

Sin is a Choice, a Sinner is the one that makes that choice. God hates the choices we make but still loves us.
Satan had a plan to take what God hates (SIN) and place it inside the thing that God loves (MAN). Like a garden (that should be beautiful) and filled it with weeds.
Now we are full of sin and we can't even choose to be sinless.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What can God do? He Loves us but hates the sin in us
What can we do? We can hate the sin in us but it won't go away?
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus is our representative, our propitiation, the perfect lamb without spot. When God looks at us, He sees Jesus and there is no sin in Jesus. Perfect solution.
1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn_4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[Grandpa]

I like your thought TMS.

Although I am not sure that God hates our choices, entirely. I'm sure He is disappointed with most of them...

But He knows that every one of those choices will bring us to Him. Some quicker than others...

Its like God is up in Heaven contemplating chess moves and we are down here trying to figure out checkers. But we are color blind and not real quick... Oh darn it! I blew it, again... Like God didn't know you were going to 1,000 yrs before you did it.

And then try to wrap your mind around this one...

Romans 8:28 [SUP] [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I don't know about you but I am Glad that Gods Ways are higher than our ways and His Thoughts are higher than our thoughts. No matter how crazy things get, He's got this handled.

Weeds in a garden. Good analogy. I suppose the Holy Spirit would be the weed-be-gone... round-up, weed-stop... not sure what you have in the land down under...

 

[Jason0047]

While I believe God gets angry at the sinner, I do not believe God actually hates them. How could He? He created them. Does it make logical sense to hate that which you create? God angry? Yes. They have a free will choice to do good. But to sit there and smash your train set you just built and scream "I hate you Mr Choo Choo train!" is not exactly the concept of God that I see. God is love. One needs to first understand that before even reading your Bible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

While I believe God gets angry at the sinner, I do not believe God actually hates them. How could He? He created them. Does it make logical sense to hate that which you create? God angry? Yes. They have a free will choice to do good. But to sit there and smash your train set you just built and scream "I hate you Mr Choo Choo train!" is not exactly the concept of God that I see. God is love. One needs to first understand that before even reading your Bible.

Yep. God is love, yet he gave up his diety, came to earth, suffered many things hung on a cross to pay the payment we owe. Died and was risen again,

But did not finish the job, he could have saved us completely in that humble act. but instead he left it to us to save ourselves by doing something which not even the jews could do. Stop sin.

I find it amazing you teach God is love, yet you do not preach a loving and forgiving God.