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Yep, it's a touchy subject. Especially since most of the time, level 4 people don't realize they are level 4 people. You know? We often can't see how much we need to grow until after the growth has happened and we're looking back on it.
I think both of Stilly's lenses are correct. It is growing vs not growing, AND maturity. It also, to me, depends on whether you are male or female. A man needs to be the spiritual leader of his household, and a woman needs to be able to respect and follow her man. So if the woman is significantly more spiritually mature than the man, there can be other related problems in the relationship. If the man is more mature, it's easier for him to slip into a leading role. Still, there are dangers of slipping off the path if his partner isn't on-board.
I think both of Stilly's lenses are correct. It is growing vs not growing, AND maturity. It also, to me, depends on whether you are male or female. A man needs to be the spiritual leader of his household, and a woman needs to be able to respect and follow her man. So if the woman is significantly more spiritually mature than the man, there can be other related problems in the relationship. If the man is more mature, it's easier for him to slip into a leading role. Still, there are dangers of slipping off the path if his partner isn't on-board.
S
It's hard to say that I was unequally yoked, because when I WAS yoked, I was definitely not walking with God. And for that reason, God broke that yoke and called me in His direction.
But to speak on defining equal yoking...
It certainly can be as simple as the believer/non-believer situation. But Stilly does present a valid hypothetical. In the case of the 10 and the 4, I am more concerned for the 4 than the 10, which is not what Stillz postulated. If the 10 is truly a 10 spiritually, then their faith is strong, and their priorities are right. But the 4...? The 4 is clearly a novice in the faith, and spiritually weak. While they have much to gain by having a spiritually stronger significant other, their lower experience and new faith is in constant combat with their all-too-familiar carnal nature and worldly past. They haven't conquered their flesh to the extent that the 10 has, and are likely to see the new relationship as a distraction from their faith. Instead of focusing on God, now their focus is on this new Godly man or woman who is with them, and in some respects, that new SO kind of becomes an idol.
When I think of being unequally yoked between two believers, this is what concerns me more than anything. If I'm say, a 6, then I'm hoping that the woman I find is no lower than a 4 (not a big gap, right? I can still lead spiritually, but not become a minister-like figure necessarily because I'm so far ahead) and no higher than an 8 (so that I have someone who might be stronger than me, but not necessarily feel that she is pulling me along). We need to be able to move together as we walk toward God, and someone who's too far in either direction is going to cause one of us to struggle some, I think.
I dunno. I could be wrong. It's happened before. Bound to happen again.
But to speak on defining equal yoking...
It certainly can be as simple as the believer/non-believer situation. But Stilly does present a valid hypothetical. In the case of the 10 and the 4, I am more concerned for the 4 than the 10, which is not what Stillz postulated. If the 10 is truly a 10 spiritually, then their faith is strong, and their priorities are right. But the 4...? The 4 is clearly a novice in the faith, and spiritually weak. While they have much to gain by having a spiritually stronger significant other, their lower experience and new faith is in constant combat with their all-too-familiar carnal nature and worldly past. They haven't conquered their flesh to the extent that the 10 has, and are likely to see the new relationship as a distraction from their faith. Instead of focusing on God, now their focus is on this new Godly man or woman who is with them, and in some respects, that new SO kind of becomes an idol.
When I think of being unequally yoked between two believers, this is what concerns me more than anything. If I'm say, a 6, then I'm hoping that the woman I find is no lower than a 4 (not a big gap, right? I can still lead spiritually, but not become a minister-like figure necessarily because I'm so far ahead) and no higher than an 8 (so that I have someone who might be stronger than me, but not necessarily feel that she is pulling me along). We need to be able to move together as we walk toward God, and someone who's too far in either direction is going to cause one of us to struggle some, I think.
I dunno. I could be wrong. It's happened before. Bound to happen again.
There are also differing views on what spiritual maturity even is. If one person believes that singing only psalms, not owning a television, and reading the KJV is spiritual maturity, then is someone who doesn't hold to those beliefs actually less spiritually mature? Or is this a question of legalism vs freedom in Christ? There are yokes, and yokes, folks. 
I think this may be the first time that I disagree with you.
I see that it is just as much an issue if the woman's spiritual maturity is significantly lower than the man's. Just as it takes a spiritually mature woman to lead his family effectively, a woman must be similarly spiritually mature to follow, trust in his decision making, especially when the family is facing challenging times, and otherwise submit (as submission is described in the Bible).
I see that it is just as much an issue if the woman's spiritual maturity is significantly lower than the man's. Just as it takes a spiritually mature woman to lead his family effectively, a woman must be similarly spiritually mature to follow, trust in his decision making, especially when the family is facing challenging times, and otherwise submit (as submission is described in the Bible).
J
I don't think we disagreed all that much, as I said, "on his level or SLIGHTLY lower".
I can definitely see issues with a woman's spiritual maturity being "significantly" lower than her man's. She may not only not understand respect/submission, she may not understand MANY concepts that are important to hold a marriage together....and may be willing to give up all too quickly when the going gets rough.
I can definitely see issues with a woman's spiritual maturity being "significantly" lower than her man's. She may not only not understand respect/submission, she may not understand MANY concepts that are important to hold a marriage together....and may be willing to give up all too quickly when the going gets rough.
J
There are also differing views on what spiritual maturity even is. If one person believes that singing only psalms, not owning a television, and reading the KJV is spiritual maturity, then is someone who doesn't hold to those beliefs actually less spiritually mature? Or is this a question of legalism vs freedom in Christ? There are yokes, and yokes, folks.
Double posting because I know I will run out of time on the edit.
Rereading things, I don't know if I disagree or not. Yes, a woman who is a stronger Christian than the man may feel like she is leading him, which is certainly troublesome. However, a woman who is a weaker Christian than the man may also attempt to usurp his authority.
I really don't want to turn this into a submission thread. I hate those.
Addressing the OP, I find that I have many questions. How is spiritual maturity measured?
What if he is more compassionate and has a heart for service, but reads his Bible only twice a week? She, on the other hand, reads her Bible diligently and wants to be a missionary, but is not a regular church attender.
He has a very active prayer life, but sometimes gives into peer pressure and smokes pot now and then. She rarely prays, but has been instrumental in leading others to the Lord.
She sometimes cooks for the poor and homeless. He follows up with visits to their shelters. She doesn't like to go there because it is too dirty.
Both these people have spiritual strengths and some pretty serious spiritual flaws, but in different ways. So....are they equally yoked?
Rereading things, I don't know if I disagree or not. Yes, a woman who is a stronger Christian than the man may feel like she is leading him, which is certainly troublesome. However, a woman who is a weaker Christian than the man may also attempt to usurp his authority.
I really don't want to turn this into a submission thread. I hate those.
Addressing the OP, I find that I have many questions. How is spiritual maturity measured?
What if he is more compassionate and has a heart for service, but reads his Bible only twice a week? She, on the other hand, reads her Bible diligently and wants to be a missionary, but is not a regular church attender.
He has a very active prayer life, but sometimes gives into peer pressure and smokes pot now and then. She rarely prays, but has been instrumental in leading others to the Lord.
She sometimes cooks for the poor and homeless. He follows up with visits to their shelters. She doesn't like to go there because it is too dirty.
Both these people have spiritual strengths and some pretty serious spiritual flaws, but in different ways. So....are they equally yoked?
This is definitely a great topic that has a great deal of depth to it.
Here is my thoughts.
Unequally yoked is to an unbeliever is what the scripture says.
However, this can pose an issue when it comes to someone that claims to be a believer and is not. It is possible to be deceived by someone that is also deceived.
For example, I was once with someone that said she was Christian. Personally, my relationship with God was not as much priority as it once was or is now. I think this is why I lacked discernment. Because later, she stated that she was a Christian because she had been baptized as a child. However, she stated that was the only reason she was a Christian as she did not believe in Jesus nor the bible. I was perplexed and already yoked.
I was turning my life back to the Lord and was not sure what I should do. It was then that I saw in the scripture where Paul said that if you are a believer already yoked with an unbeliever, remain with them. So I did.
She later left me. Scripture says if they leave, let them leave. You are not bound in such cases.
So I think the most important thing is to do as scripture says and to test the spirits to know whether they are of God. On that note, I must say that I have only ever met 2 people in my life that test the spirits according to how scripture says to do so.
Since that incident, I have noticed a lot of "believers" that do not pass that test. So use wisdom people and be obedient to God's will.
If you are yoked, then remain with that person.
If you are not yoked, use the wisdom given in scripture to test the spirits to know whether they are of God.
Here is my thoughts.
Unequally yoked is to an unbeliever is what the scripture says.
However, this can pose an issue when it comes to someone that claims to be a believer and is not. It is possible to be deceived by someone that is also deceived.
For example, I was once with someone that said she was Christian. Personally, my relationship with God was not as much priority as it once was or is now. I think this is why I lacked discernment. Because later, she stated that she was a Christian because she had been baptized as a child. However, she stated that was the only reason she was a Christian as she did not believe in Jesus nor the bible. I was perplexed and already yoked.
I was turning my life back to the Lord and was not sure what I should do. It was then that I saw in the scripture where Paul said that if you are a believer already yoked with an unbeliever, remain with them. So I did.
She later left me. Scripture says if they leave, let them leave. You are not bound in such cases.
So I think the most important thing is to do as scripture says and to test the spirits to know whether they are of God. On that note, I must say that I have only ever met 2 people in my life that test the spirits according to how scripture says to do so.
Since that incident, I have noticed a lot of "believers" that do not pass that test. So use wisdom people and be obedient to God's will.
If you are yoked, then remain with that person.
If you are not yoked, use the wisdom given in scripture to test the spirits to know whether they are of God.
Here is another thing to consider after reading some of the posts...
If scripture says that a believer that is already yoked with an unbeliever should remain with them...
then what do you would be the case for a believer yoked with another believer that is at a different maturity level?
If the unbelieving is able to be sanctified by the believing, then why would we conclude that the two believing would not be able to sanctify one another?
Could we really expect to meet someone that is at the same exact level in everything as we are? Or maybe... just maybe... each of us have our own gifts and should therefore humble ourselves one to another.
If scripture says that a believer that is already yoked with an unbeliever should remain with them...
then what do you would be the case for a believer yoked with another believer that is at a different maturity level?
If the unbelieving is able to be sanctified by the believing, then why would we conclude that the two believing would not be able to sanctify one another?
Could we really expect to meet someone that is at the same exact level in everything as we are? Or maybe... just maybe... each of us have our own gifts and should therefore humble ourselves one to another.
Oh... certainly they can. It is better to marry than to burn. After all, they have the natural affection that God created within them despite their ignorance. Ignorance can only be corrected by guidance. So we should encourage them to do that and to seek how to be holy and acceptable to the Lord as a married couple inasmuch as they should be seeking that as a single person. No?
J
I suppose, scripturally, the measurement of spiritual maturity would be reflected by the Fruit of the Spirit they display in their daily walk and how well their life lines up with the Word. It's the only measuring stick we have. It is tough enough to determine our own maturity most of the time, let alone someone else's. I think that's a big part of how it happens. It can take a long time to see and our feelings can get in the way before our eyes are open. Makes it very difficult to walk away.
As for weaknesses, we all have them, regardless of spiritual maturity. Abraham was mature enough to leave his homeland and follow God, yet weak enough to fib and pass his wife off. David was mature enough to take on a giant and become king, yet clearly had his own weaknesses. Seems like all the more reason to be watchful for anything or anyone that might help bring those weaknesses closer to the surface. But.....we usually don't, do we?
As for weaknesses, we all have them, regardless of spiritual maturity. Abraham was mature enough to leave his homeland and follow God, yet weak enough to fib and pass his wife off. David was mature enough to take on a giant and become king, yet clearly had his own weaknesses. Seems like all the more reason to be watchful for anything or anyone that might help bring those weaknesses closer to the surface. But.....we usually don't, do we?
J
If by "yoked" you mean the believer is already married to the other believer and there is no unfaithfulness, personally, I would not feel free to leave and would do all I could to be an example and encouragement.
In the OP, I was looking at the topic from a single's perspective....to attempt, as well as humanly possible, to determine whether we might be/might not be equally yoked with someone we may view as a future spouse. I was hoping that some of the older folks in this forum could address (hopefully by life experience) why this issue is one of the most important a couple contemplating marriage will face.
In the OP, I was looking at the topic from a single's perspective....to attempt, as well as humanly possible, to determine whether we might be/might not be equally yoked with someone we may view as a future spouse. I was hoping that some of the older folks in this forum could address (hopefully by life experience) why this issue is one of the most important a couple contemplating marriage will face.
J
This issue is rather personal for me, my mom having married an unbeliever who only became a believer a short time before he passed. He was a very sweet, brilliant, loving man whom I loved dearly and respected greatly in later years... but I remember, even as a young child, witnessing the conflict, pain and discouragement she went through...and the things she was led into before she finally summoned the courage to say no.
And now I need to sleep because the screen is getting all blurry.
And now I need to sleep because the screen is getting all blurry.
i think the "lesser spiritually mature" is a problem when:
1) complacency exists
2) unequal desire to grow
3) unwilling/unable to re-orient compass when spiritually/biblically-relevant issues arise
4) lack of agreement on general priorities and goals
because of our strengths, gifts, and growth can all be factors that overcome inequality. in the end, i want to be with someone who is facing in the same direction, with similar goals/desires/priorities.
for some christians, they view their growth in Christ as inevitable. many appear to do the christian regime, routine and obligation, but don't really seek to grow.
i'd rather be with someone who is maybe less mature spiritually, yet hungry for growth and service, rather than passively acquiring and expecting growth.
it's an audience participation event--not sleepwalking in, wearing your PJs.
1) complacency exists
2) unequal desire to grow
3) unwilling/unable to re-orient compass when spiritually/biblically-relevant issues arise
4) lack of agreement on general priorities and goals
because of our strengths, gifts, and growth can all be factors that overcome inequality. in the end, i want to be with someone who is facing in the same direction, with similar goals/desires/priorities.
for some christians, they view their growth in Christ as inevitable. many appear to do the christian regime, routine and obligation, but don't really seek to grow.
i'd rather be with someone who is maybe less mature spiritually, yet hungry for growth and service, rather than passively acquiring and expecting growth.
it's an audience participation event--not sleepwalking in, wearing your PJs.
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