HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Faith!

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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

First of all, the Lord said if any lack wisdom, ask Him and He will give you wisdom. The Holy Spirit will show you Truth and your heart will have peace that nothing (not even Wayne) can take away.

I recommend you spend time with the Lord and with the Holy Word. Study the Scriptures online with a concordance and let the Lord God reveal Himself to you. The Word is alive and powerful.

And remember this, no carnal mind can understand the things of God. You must humble yourself to the Father and ask Him to reveal to you spiritual truths. Dump that Wayne video and every other thing that exalts itself against God, dear brother.
How can I do that when I don't get any answers here to who the angel of God is? And anyone who gave an answer said it was Jesus, but they didn't provide even 1 explicit statement in the bible saying that the angel is Jesus. Wayne gave 3 explicit statement in the bible saying that the angel was Satan, then proved his point beyond that.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Your question makes NO SENSE. Especially that Mark 1 is a parable.
God is One. God manifested in flesh in the New Testament, not in the Old. Before that, He was present, but not manifested in flesh. Did you at all look the verses I shown you or am I talking to a wall?
 
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VioletReigns

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Believe Wayne or believe God. You're going to have to choose whom you're going to serve.
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Your question makes NO SENSE. Especially that Mark 1 is a parable.
God is One. God manifested in flesh in the New Testament, not in the Old. Before that, He was present, but not manifested in flesh. Did you at all look the verses I shown you or am I talking to a wall?
I asked you to provide me with explicit evidence anywhere in the bible that says Jesus was physically on earth during the Old Testament times - and you didn't provide anything close to that.

And yes, it is very telling that you can't answer the simple question of who was physically in the vineyard first according to Mark 12:1 and 12:6 - Jesus or the Father? The answer is the Father, and that's why you don't want to say it because it blows your theory of it having been Jesus out of the water.

But I'll still ask again... WHO WAS PHYSICALLY IN THE VINEYARD FIRST ACCORDING TO MARK 12:1 AND 12:6 - JESUS OR THE FATHER?
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Believe Wayne or believe God. You're going to have to choose whom you're going to serve.
Who do you think the angel of God, who called himself God in Genesis 31:11-13, is?

And do you think God the Father ordering for infants to be killed with a sword in 1 Samuel 15:1-3 is evil?


And does God the Father in Deut 21:10-13 sanction rape? Is what is sanctioned there rape?
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

This should be reposted so I'll repost it here. I said to Nick01 (and he mysteriously stopped arguing when I wrote this to him)...


In his video, Wayne said "There are no mirror verses in between Testaments, that's because mirror verses cannot be formed when the 2 verses are in 2 completely different Testaments - for example Matt 2:15 and Hos 11:1 aren't saying Jesus is literally all of the Israelites, Heb 1:5 & Psalm 2:7 aren't saying Jesus is David, Heb 1:13 and Psalm 110:1 aren't saying Jesus is Solomon - because the verses are pulled from 2 different testaments". You said about Wayne's verses which show the angel to be Satan "I don't think Wayne's evidence is all that". But obviously it must be "all that" because you said that Rom 10:13 and Joel 2:32 show Jesus to be God, if that's true (even though it goes against Wayne's rule because the 2 verses are from 2 different Testaments) then you've admitted 1 Chron 21:1 and 2 Sam 24:1 to declare Satan to be Jehovah (especially since those two verses are from the same Testament). So explain how Wayne's intertestamental rule is wrong. Rom 10:13 and Joel 2:32 you think declares Jesus to be God even though they are from 2 different Testaments and don't declare Jesus to be God for that very reason, how then have you not pinned yourself into a trap when 1 Chron 21:1 and 2 Sam 24:1 are in the same Testament and have the science you wish Rom 10:13 and Joel 2:32 to have?
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Numbers 1:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Take a census of all the congregation of the sons of Israel, by their families, by their fathers’ households, according to the number of names, every male, head by head[SUP]3 [/SUP]from twenty years old and upward, whoever is able to go out to war in Israel, you and Aaron shall number them by their armies.


2 Samuel 24:1-2
Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]The king said to Joab the commander of the army who was with him, “Go about now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and register the people, that I may know the number of the people.”


Neither Satan or David is God. Just because they both numbered Israel, does not mean that they are the same being or person. Interestingly, God instructed for the Levites not to be numbered (when He gave the command to Moses):

1 Chronicles 21:6
But he did not number Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king’s command was abhorrent to Joab.

So, perhaps God intervened, but that does not mean that He was Joab either.
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Numbers 1:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Take a census of all the congregation of the sons of Israel, by their families, by their fathers’ households, according to the number of names, every male, head by head[SUP]3 [/SUP]from twenty years old and upward, whoever is able to go out to war in Israel, you and Aaron shall number them by their armies.


2 Samuel 24:1-2
Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]The king said to Joab the commander of the army who was with him, “Go about now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and register the people, that I may know the number of the people.”


Neither Satan or David is God. Just because they both numbered Israel, does not mean that they are the same being or person. Interestingly, God instructed for the Levites not to be numbered (when He gave the command to Moses):

1 Chronicles 21:6
But he did not number Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king’s command was abhorrent to Joab.

So, perhaps God intervened, but that does not mean that He was Joab either.
Wayne's evidence is solid in regards to 1 Chron 21:1 and 2 Sam 24:1 stating that the angel who is God is Satan, especially since 1 Chron 21:15 and 2 Chron 3:1 backs it up. But that's not the only place Wayne has for explicit statements in the bible that identify that Satan is God the Father.

God the Father is the Father of everyone he created, as Mal 2:10 says, that's why Job 1:6 calls Satan one of the "sons of God". So Satan has God the Father as the Father of him. Wayne says that the English versions at the end of John 8:44 are wrong. The end of John 8:44 says that Satan is the Father of Satan, yet another statement that says the angel of the Father is the Father who is Satan...

What people want the end of John 8:44 to say about the Devil...
"he is a liar and the father of LIES"

What the end of John 8:44 actually says about the Devil...
"he is a liar and the Father of HIM"

Wayne said that it was a masculine singular pronoun at the end of John 8:44, and I looked it up on biblehub.com and he is right about that.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Wayne's evidence is solid in regards to 1 Chron 21:1 and 2 Sam 24:1 stating that the angel who is God is Satan, especially since 1 Chron 21:15 and 2 Chron 3:1 backs it up. But that's not the only place Wayne has for explicit statements in the bible that identify that Satan is God the Father.

God the Father is the Father of everyone he created, as Mal 2:10 says, that's why Job 1:6 calls Satan one of the "sons of God". So Satan has God the Father as the Father of him. Wayne says that the English versions at the end of John 8:44 are wrong. The end of John 8:44 says that Satan is the Father of Satan, yet another statement that says the angel of the Father is the Father who is Satan...

What people want the end of John 8:44 to say about the Devil...
"he is a liar and the father of LIES"

What the end of John 8:44 actually says about the Devil...
"he is a liar and the Father of HIM"

Wayne said that it was a masculine singular pronoun at the end of John 8:44, and I looked it up on biblehub.com and he is right about that.
Well...You seem to be convinced - faith shaken - yet determined to stay there. I will not be joining you.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Tell the truth Peaceand, are you actully Wayne in the video?
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Well...You seem to be convinced - faith shaken - yet determined to stay there. I will not be joining you.
Responding to that doesn't make you "join".
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Tell the truth Peaceand, are you actully Wayne in the video?
Now you're back to ridiculing me? No. And if you're a senior member then you should be able to tell us, does John 8:44 end with "he is a liar and the father of lies" or "he is a liar and the Father of HIM"?
 

AzureAfire

Senior Member
Apr 16, 2013
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

You said you watched a video that shook your faith. Can I ask you these, then?


"What is your faith?"
"What do you believe in before your faith got shook?"
"Are you a Christian? If so, what is your life's testimony? How did you come to know about GOD and our LORD Jesus Christ?"


I hope these questions do not offend you. They shouldn't. Christians LOVE to share about how they came to know GOD in their lives. This very special, life-changing encounter is something we cherish, because it brought us to our knees, held in incredible awe and humility, and embraced and filled with so much love, joy, peace and hope that we come to discover could only be found in the One True Living GOD who loves us so!!!


I believe we should have asked you these questions first before trying to answer your questions. Because from the way you respond, you don't seem to be seeking help. You seem to be trying to convince others to believe what you've heard from that video. So you shouldn't wonder why some members (who are painstakingly trying to explain to you how false the teachings in that video is, and who have repeatedly cited Scripture and shared GODly wisdom to supposedly help lead you back to GOD's truth, which you repeatedly reject) think that you might be this Wayne person who made that video that is basically teaching anti-Christ doctrine. He is, after all, starting his own religion, and therefore, seeking followers.


Whoever you are, it seems to me that you are not showing signs of a shaken faith in the One True Living GOD of the Bible. Instead, you are showing signs of not having any true faith in HIM at all. For a person who has a shaken faith would not so easily embrace a teaching that says that GOD is a cruel and evil GOD, who delights in slaughtering innocents and condones rape. Know that the Bible is the solid and trustworthy Word of GOD. None of its parts contradict each other. Our GOD is an unchanging GOD (Malachi 3:6). Sovereign, righteous, just and holy. The very embodiment of the deepest, purest, truest meaning of LOVE. And HE is not double-minded, nor a liar, that HE should say one thing yet do another thing. HE does not contradict HIS nature of goodness, righteousness, holiness, justice and love. Great is HIS love for all men, even though we are sinners. HE made a way for us to be restored to HIM and be saved from the curse of sin and death through our LORD Jesus Christ. The very basic verse that almost the entire world is familiar with says it perfectly!!! You should know this, since you stated on your profile that this is YOUR FAVORITE VERSE. Right???



John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



If you are just going to ask me your questions that have already been addressed by the brethren in earlier posts, I will tell you right now that I refuse to entertain them. I honestly DON'T TRUST YOU. Only GOD knows if you are truly HIS own, so I will not say with absolute certainty that you are not a Christian. But so far, you are not exhibiting a shred of a true Christian's faith.


From what most of us can see based on your responses and persistent defense of this Wayne and his video, you are not seeking the truth. You are ALREADY convinced that this Wayne person is right, so what's the point of pretending to ask for answers? You even insult a senior member here, thinking that you have more wisdom than he does, just by watching that video. You insult everyone in this thread, stating that they couldn't answer your questions. They have answered answered your questions repeatedly, but you choose to believe in lies.


If you are TRULY a Christian, I strongly advise you to PRAY HARD. Because you have fallen to the deception of the enemy. The Father of lies, Satan. You let him convince you that the GOD of the Bible is evil and shouldn't be honored, trusted, and not worthy of man's praise, adoration and love. Wayne has been used by the enemy to draw people away from GOD. He has a reprobate mind, and shouldn't be trusted. He should be avoided, just as GOD's Holy Word says.



2 Timothy 3:1-9 King James Version (KJV)

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.



If you REALLY need help, I will try to help you, just as the other brethren here are trying to do. But I will not answer your questions. I will try to help you GET TO KNOW GOD. That is what you need, not some clarification about who is the Angel that appeared in the OT and so on. You NEED TO DISCOVER WHO GOD REALLY IS.


I personally love the study of A.W. Pink on "The Attributes of GOD". Reading this side-by-side with the Bible (of a good translation) has greatly helped increased my understanding about GOD, and helped strengthen my faith. I'll share you a link here:


The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-Preface and Foreword



And another thing I'll do for you is pray for you. I will not try to convince you. I don't have the power to change your mind, nor your heart. Only GOD can do that. The most I can do is help encourage to draw close to HIS Word. That is what you should do. PRAY TO GOD AS YOU READ HIS WORD. I suggest you use a different Bible Translation. Try ESV or KJV. Don't trust in your own wisdom, nor in that video. TRUST IN GOD INSTEAD. Then after you seek HIS truth in HIS Word, then you choose who you will believe and serve. The One True Living GOD, or the god that your hero Wayne preaches.



Joshua 24:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.



[video=youtube_share;PCFmMjIQSaM]http://youtu.be/PCFmMjIQSaM[/video]
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Now you're back to ridiculing me? No. And if you're a senior member then you should be able to tell us, does John 8:44 end with "he is a liar and the father of lies" or "he is a liar and the Father of HIM"?
WHat point are you exactly trying to make with this verse? It is self explanitory. Satan is the father of lies.

[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. [SUP]
43 [/SUP]Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! [SUP]
46 [/SUP]Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

WHat point are you exactly trying to make with this verse? It is self explanitory. Satan is the father of lies.
Wayne says that the original Greek says "he is a liar and the Father of HIM" and that the English versions hide that by putting "he is a liar and the father of LIES". It doesn't say "lies" it says "him" - what Jesus is saying there is that Satan is the Father of Satan. It's another statement that says Satan, the angel of God, is God the Father.
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

You said you watched a video that shook your faith. Can I ask you these, then?


"What is your faith?"
"What do you believe in before your faith got shook?"
"Are you a Christian? If so, what is your life's testimony? How did you come to know about GOD and our LORD Jesus Christ?"
I was raised Baptists, my whole family when I was growing up was very involved in the church but that only served as a seed planted in me. I saw going to church every week more like a mandatory thing that maybe most people really didn't want to do. It wasn't until about 10 years ago when I first felt the Holy Spirit while I was visiting a friends church and had my life changed. Then the Spirit started to clean up my act, and I started to show some of the fruits of the Spirit. One of the things that resonated with me about Jesus and the bible was the high standard of morality taught, of which I tried to reach but always would fall short. Unfortunately I came across Wayne's video, if I think about it maybe it would have been easier if I hadn't. I probably would have made it to 85 years old without having my faith shaken. It's just that I was taught for at least 10 years if not more about what was in the bible, yet I was completely blind-sighted by Wayne's video because I had no idea about those things that were in the bible. Like, no idea at all. And yes, that makes me question my teachers and what I was taught. Because no one after 10 years of learning the bible should be left clueless on - the angel of God, the killing of the children by God's orders, God being on earth in the Old Testament, that Rom 9:8-9 says that it was God the Father who appeared in Gen 18, and the list goes on and on.
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Your question makes NO SENSE. Especially that Mark 1 is a parable.
God is One. God manifested in flesh in the New Testament, not in the Old. Before that, He was present, but not manifested in flesh. Did you at all look the verses I shown you or am I talking to a wall?
Again, I asked you to provide me with explicit evidence anywhere in the bible that says Jesus was physically on earth during the Old Testament times - and you didn't provide anything close to that.

And yes, it is very telling that you can't answer the simple question of who was physically in the vineyard first according to Mark 12:1 and 12:6 - Jesus or the Father? The answer is the Father, and that's why you don't want to say it because it blows your theory of it having been Jesus out of the water.

But I'll still ask again... WHO WAS PHYSICALLY IN THE VINEYARD FIRST ACCORDING TO MARK 12:1 AND 12:6 - JESUS OR THE FATHER?
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

WHO WAS PHYSICALLY IN THE VINEYARD FIRST ACCORDING TO MARK 12:1 AND 12:6 - JESUS OR THE FATHER?
 
Jun 30, 2011
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Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

internet trolling to keep this alive
 
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peaceand

Guest
Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

internet trolling to keep this alive
Your the one trolling not having an answer for who the angel of God is.