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if His covenant is with only Isaac, and you are a gentile, where are you in this picture?
believing israel (later known as christians_ are still under God's covenant. in Christ's Blood.
there is no other covenant. any reasonably informed christian should know this. it's amazing how we have the same people in the same thread arguing for salvation by grace through faith; then arguing for "promises" God is supposedly bound to make good on, though they be with antichrists (according to His own definition).
if that contradiction of God and His own words; plan and character makes sense to you, there's something terribly wrong....with your interpretation of the Bible, and worse, with your understanding of what God's Plan was from before creation - to take from among all kindred tongues and nations a people to Himself and call them His people; and he would be their God.
God's faithfulness to the rebellious israelites he made plain was due to His honoring of the Patriarchs; and for His own name's sake.
almost all the blessings promised by God to Abraham were passed on to his direct descendants, and were literally physical in nature (for the purpose of the primary error upholding the false doctrine in this thread, i will use only the "promise" that some can point to (dubiously) - Land/Earthly Kingdom).
anyone can read the Old Testament and with ease discover that God did fulfill His physical promises (land - allotments for every single member of the clan spelled out meticulously in Joshua) even though the people, due to their inability to continue in obedience to the covenant(s), were eventually expelled from the Land.
though they were expelled (for the ultimate GOOD of all mankind), they did inherit the land promised after they were delivered from Egypt. a multitude. millions.
But abraham was also told: in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed (not just israelites). why this is problematic for people (gentiles, who claim to know God and be thankful that He fulfilled this promise is stupifying).
what was the blessing? abraham? jacob? isaac? israel's great wealth? the Law?
or Jesus Christ?
Everyone with even the slightest understanding of the Bible grasps the expanding nature of the promises to eventually involve all of mankind, and all the earth - not just a parcel of land on the Mediterranean.
this expansion is both physical and spiritual as the book of hebrews goes to great lengths to explain. it should, to the shame of those who refuse to see the magnitude of God's Plan from before the foundation of the world, be clear right from Genesis.
One of the most important promises was made to Judah:
"The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to Him shall be the obedience of the people"
did Judah remain the lawgiver forever? everlasting? forever and ever? as far as i know, Judah died.
clearly, Judah descended from Jesse, and David from Jesse. and through David came the redeemer of all mankind - Jesus Christ.
surely we don't disagree on this? who denies this?
jews who don't believe stumble at the idea - reject it entirely. gentiles who don't believe, scoff and think it foolishness.
ONLY those people chosen by God, ONLY His people who are called by His name are those who know Him - through the revelation of Himself in His Son Jesus the Christ.
all who reject Jesus Christ are currently lost, and the bible calls them antichrist.
how do you have God's chosen people being antichrists (liars - according to john)?
what was it that made abraham an actual heir of those promises of God's?
He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore 'it was accounted to him for righteousness.
faith.
God chose abraham:
For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the Lord, to do righteousness and justice, that the Lord may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him
what had he spoken to him? did abraham and his descendants receive what God had spoken to him?
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
no. it says they did not receive the promises. we know they received the land (soil); plots.
they were looking for something other than a plot of land somewhere far from home.
"And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us"
this should be obvious. why it is not, God only knows.
there is one covenant.
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ . . . And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"
that's it.
there is simply NO future promise of any land to anyone on this earth in this Jerusalem, and certainly not for antichrists.
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.
how is it anyone has concocted some alternate plan that doesn't exist anywhere in God's revealed will and plan?
simply because they have not believed, not sought for
...the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people....For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ
believing israel (later known as christians_ are still under God's covenant. in Christ's Blood.
there is no other covenant. any reasonably informed christian should know this. it's amazing how we have the same people in the same thread arguing for salvation by grace through faith; then arguing for "promises" God is supposedly bound to make good on, though they be with antichrists (according to His own definition).
if that contradiction of God and His own words; plan and character makes sense to you, there's something terribly wrong....with your interpretation of the Bible, and worse, with your understanding of what God's Plan was from before creation - to take from among all kindred tongues and nations a people to Himself and call them His people; and he would be their God.
God's faithfulness to the rebellious israelites he made plain was due to His honoring of the Patriarchs; and for His own name's sake.
almost all the blessings promised by God to Abraham were passed on to his direct descendants, and were literally physical in nature (for the purpose of the primary error upholding the false doctrine in this thread, i will use only the "promise" that some can point to (dubiously) - Land/Earthly Kingdom).
anyone can read the Old Testament and with ease discover that God did fulfill His physical promises (land - allotments for every single member of the clan spelled out meticulously in Joshua) even though the people, due to their inability to continue in obedience to the covenant(s), were eventually expelled from the Land.
though they were expelled (for the ultimate GOOD of all mankind), they did inherit the land promised after they were delivered from Egypt. a multitude. millions.
But abraham was also told: in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed (not just israelites). why this is problematic for people (gentiles, who claim to know God and be thankful that He fulfilled this promise is stupifying).
what was the blessing? abraham? jacob? isaac? israel's great wealth? the Law?
or Jesus Christ?
Everyone with even the slightest understanding of the Bible grasps the expanding nature of the promises to eventually involve all of mankind, and all the earth - not just a parcel of land on the Mediterranean.
this expansion is both physical and spiritual as the book of hebrews goes to great lengths to explain. it should, to the shame of those who refuse to see the magnitude of God's Plan from before the foundation of the world, be clear right from Genesis.
One of the most important promises was made to Judah:
"The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to Him shall be the obedience of the people"
did Judah remain the lawgiver forever? everlasting? forever and ever? as far as i know, Judah died.
clearly, Judah descended from Jesse, and David from Jesse. and through David came the redeemer of all mankind - Jesus Christ.
surely we don't disagree on this? who denies this?
jews who don't believe stumble at the idea - reject it entirely. gentiles who don't believe, scoff and think it foolishness.
ONLY those people chosen by God, ONLY His people who are called by His name are those who know Him - through the revelation of Himself in His Son Jesus the Christ.
all who reject Jesus Christ are currently lost, and the bible calls them antichrist.
how do you have God's chosen people being antichrists (liars - according to john)?
what was it that made abraham an actual heir of those promises of God's?
He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore 'it was accounted to him for righteousness.
faith.
God chose abraham:
For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the Lord, to do righteousness and justice, that the Lord may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him
what had he spoken to him? did abraham and his descendants receive what God had spoken to him?
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
no. it says they did not receive the promises. we know they received the land (soil); plots.
they were looking for something other than a plot of land somewhere far from home.
"And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us"
this should be obvious. why it is not, God only knows.
there is one covenant.
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ . . . And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"
that's it.
there is simply NO future promise of any land to anyone on this earth in this Jerusalem, and certainly not for antichrists.
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.
how is it anyone has concocted some alternate plan that doesn't exist anywhere in God's revealed will and plan?
simply because they have not believed, not sought for
...the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people....For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ
Yes, we know Ishmael is 'Semitic' but he is not in the line of promise to Abraham.
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
(Rom 9:6-8)
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
(Rom 9:6-8)
(Luk 1:54)
He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
(Luk 1:55)
As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Rom_9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gal_3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
I was under the delusion that I and my kinsman were "chosen" also when I was young. When I got a hold of the Bible, I realized I was cut off and estranged from the commonwealth of Israel, and that there was no heritage for me under the law, but only in Marrying the Messiah of Israel. As you quoted earlier, "The bondwoman is not heir with the Free Woman". The Free Woman is we who are Married to Christ, a.k.a. 'grafted' in to True Israel. The "bondwoman" is the Jews "cut-off" for unbelief. When I learned these things from the Word of God, I was beaten, divorced and disowned by my Jewish family.
But nothing could keep me from becoming "Chosen" in Christ.
Since that time, I have been attacked by the followers of satan repeatedly. You are getting a taste of it here.
It is especially strange to me how that supposed "Christians" are essentially little clones of the antichrist's here in this "Jerusalem below, who also reject Jesus as their King, with crazy false prophecies that everything promised to Abraham and Israel wasn't fulfilled. They also say specifically what they preach is NOT the Gospel.
So Dear James, give no concern for the accusations of those who confess that they are not Israel. For they are correct, and they shall soon reap the full reward of their convictions.
Peace brother
Oh, and of course you know, and thank you for asking, this is the only way any man can be "chosen"...
(Eph 1:4)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
(1Pe 2:4)
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and
precious,
(1Pe 2:9)
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
But nothing could keep me from becoming "Chosen" in Christ.
Since that time, I have been attacked by the followers of satan repeatedly. You are getting a taste of it here.
It is especially strange to me how that supposed "Christians" are essentially little clones of the antichrist's here in this "Jerusalem below, who also reject Jesus as their King, with crazy false prophecies that everything promised to Abraham and Israel wasn't fulfilled. They also say specifically what they preach is NOT the Gospel.
So Dear James, give no concern for the accusations of those who confess that they are not Israel. For they are correct, and they shall soon reap the full reward of their convictions.
Peace brother
Oh, and of course you know, and thank you for asking, this is the only way any man can be "chosen"...
(Eph 1:4)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
(1Pe 2:4)
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and
precious,
(1Pe 2:9)
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
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You love that bondwoman don't you.
(Gal 4:25)
For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
(Gal 4:30)
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Gal 4:31)
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
(Gal 4:25)
For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
(Gal 4:30)
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Gal 4:31)
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
K
You know when I started this thread I did not know it would be hijacked by people that were going to be nasty to other posters.Now I see another comes in to cause upset and animosity.I would really appreciate if everyone would just calm down and discuss without being confrontational. I dont want this thread to be banned. Thank you all.