Baptism symbol only ?

VCO · Nov 19, 2014

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“ If you love Me, you will keep My commands. "

It has NOTHING to do with WATER, it has everything to do with LOVE.

If this really happened to YOU, you will want to be Baptized in Water, BUT YOU WERE SAVED THE MOMENT THIS REALLY HAPPENED TO YOU:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Stop trying to take credit for what GOD DID.

VCO · Nov 19, 2014

newbirth said:

AND HERE IS YOUR ONE BAPTISM:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (GW)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.

IT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT WATER.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

newbirth · Nov 19, 2014

VCO said:

so you are saying one is initially saved and do none of these and still be saved???? you are quoting scripture that states....

Hereby we know that we are in him:
[SUP]
6 [/SUP] he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.........

just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him, ......
[SUP]
15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands. .........

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

and say .....
SO what is your point, that is all Part of our Christian WALK just like Christian Water Baptism is, and not part of our Christian Salvation

and you want me to believe you are not an agent of satan?

VCO · Nov 19, 2014

newbirth said:

You are amazing, you can twist what I say so fast that it is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO RESEMBLING WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID.

I said IF YOU WERE GENUINELY SAVED BY HIM THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVED,
THAT SALVATION WILL PRODUCE IN YOU A LIFESTYLE OF OBEDIENCE.

Now how can you misunderstand that? ? ?

In other words, it is not the Lifestyle of Obedience that produces Salvation,

BUT RATHER IT IS THE SALVATION BY HIS GRACE, THAT PRODUCES A LIFESTYLE OF OBEDIENCE.

VCO · Nov 19, 2014

newbirth said:

ANOTHER THOUGHT POPPED INTO MY HEAD, and it may explain your continuous misunderstanding. I suspect you think Sanctification produces Salvation, which is a major error.

SALVATION IS A GIFT OF GOD, by His Grace.

Salvation produces a lifestyle of Obedience where we practice Righteousness.

AND

A lifestyle of practicing Righteousness and Obedience, produces Sanctification where we get our WALK to match our TALK.

You continually get the cart ahead of the horse.

PACEMAKER · Nov 20, 2014

True religion is neither rules-based nor ritual-based.

True religion is a personal relationship with God

through Jesus Christ Alone..

Two things that all religions hold are;
that humanity is somehow separated from God
and needs to be reconciled to Him.

False religion seeks to solve this problem by
observing rules and rituals.

True religion solves the problem by recognizing that
only God could rectify the separation,
and that He has done so.

True religion recognizes the following:

1. We have all sinned and are therefore separated
from God (Romans 3:23).

2. If not rectified, the just penalty for sin is death and eternal separation
from God after death (Romans 6:23).

3. God came to us in the Person of Jesus Christ and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve, and rose from the dead to demonstrate that His death was a sufficient sacrifice
(Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

4. If we receive Jesus as the Savior,trusting His death as the full payment for our sins, we are forgiven, saved, redeemed, reconciled, and justified with God

(John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9).

True religion does have rules and rituals,

but there is a crucial difference.

In true religion, the rules and rituals are observed
out of Gratitude
for the salvation God has provided –

NOT in an effort to obtain that salvation.

True religion, which is Biblical Christianity,
has rules to obey (do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not lie, etc.)

And rituals to observe (water baptism by immersion and the Lord’s Supper / Communion).

Observance of these rules and rituals is
NOT what makes a person right with God.

Rather, these rules and rituals are the RESULT of the relationship with God,
by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone as the Savior.

False religion is doing things (rules and rituals) in order to try to earn God’s favor.

True religion is receiving Jesus Christ as Savior
and thereby having a right relationship with God –
and then doing things (rules and rituals)
out of love for God and desire to grow closer to Him.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise,
as some understand slowness.
Instead he is patient with you,
not wanting anyone to perish,
but everyone to come to repentance.

Acts 3:19 (NIV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent, then,
and turn to God,
so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

newbirth · Nov 20, 2014

VCO said:

And I am saying to you devils genuinely believe and tremble...the difference between you and them is that you have been given the power to make a choice to obey the gospel or not....that is what faith does....

You still imply that is how one is saved....and here it is again...we are saved by grace through faith....through faith implies an on going process.....you are saying that process does not bring salvation....one cannot obtain salvation in the end if they don't continue in Christ.......it does not produce a lifestyle of obedience...it gives you the power to obey as in.... choice....

1 Peter 1:6-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

newbirth · Nov 20, 2014

VCO said:

bro we are sanctified/ set apart by God...if it were not so you can neither be obedient or righteous...

Hebrews 10:9-11King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Jude 1:1
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

VCO · Nov 20, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

Pretty good post, but there is ONE word that I would change. Wherever you said Savior, I would say LORD. That word LORD actually means MASTER, and I do not believe their is Salvation apart from Receiving Jesus Christ as LORD. Now l can prove that statement, and will do so; BUT FIRST I want you to understand why I Believe that, and it has NOTHING to do with works righteousness.

Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

There is an EXTREMELY Important verse that most Christians overlook. When was that love of God poured out in our hearts? Correct the moment the Holy Spirit came into our hearts, therefore THAT makes it part of the FREE GIFT OF FAITH BY GRACE, that was described in Eph. 2:8-9. NOTICE: it says the LOVE OF GOD, and not LOVE FOR GOD, therefore it is perfect LOVE. NOTICE ALSO: It was NOT just a few drops of the LOVE OF GOD, it was POURED OUT in our hearts, therefore our hearts were filled with the LOVE OF GOD. IS NOT THAT SEED THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT POURED OUT IN OUR HEARTS THEE ULTIMATE SEED OF RIGHTEOUSNESS?

When the HOLY SPIRIT poured out that LOVE of GOD into our hearts, HE had already determined there was FERTILE SOIL in that heat. There may have already been some of the Word of GOD there in that FERTILE SOIL from when we just took up space on a pew (faith comes by hearing the word). THAT COMBINATION LOVE OF GOD AND THE WORD OF GOD most certainly will produce an abundant harvest of GOD that becomes a born again Christian. THEREFORE:

The ability to Believe spawns out of that LOVE OF GOD and the Presence of the Holy Spirit.
The ability to RECEIVE HIM as LORD and Master spawns out of that LOVE OF GOD and the Presence of the Holy Spirit.
The ability to OBEY HIM spawns out of that LOVE OF GOD and the Presence of the Holy Spirit.
The ability to SERVE HIM spawns out of that LOVE OF GOD and the Presence of the Holy Spirit.
The ability to UNDERSTAND HIS WORD spawns out of that LOVE OF GOD and the Presence of the Holy Spirit.

So it is ALL because of HIS GRACE, and we do not get to pat ourselves on the back for any of it.

What verses Prove we should be using the word LORD when we lead others to Christ? For Example: We should be saying: "RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, and HE will be your Savior!"

John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. {Born Again.}

Received Him as what though?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord {Which means MASTER.}, continue to live in Him,

Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess {Not just profess.} with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; {<-- NOTICE: He does not become our Savior until AFTER we have genuinely received HIM as LORD.}

John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. {That is submission to HIS LORDSHIP.}

Matthew 7:21-24 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. {That is submission to HIS LORDSHIP.}
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, {That is submission to HIS LORDSHIP.} may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

1 John 2:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. {That is submission to HIS LORDSHIP.}
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; {That is NON-submission to HIS LORDSHIP.}

That is why I Cringe every time I hear a TV preacher say, "Just receive Jesus as your Savior, and you will be saved." That is Easy Believism's watered down false gospel. Sorry if that sounds too harsh and critical, but I cannot apologize for WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS (ref. 1 John 2:4). I do not see Salvation apart from submission to HIS LORDSHIP.

The whole world wants a Savior, but VERY FEW want a LORD to rule over their lives.

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

VCO · Nov 20, 2014

newbirth said:

Now I will have to stand Corrected, even the Sanctification Process by GOD and the cleansing of via HIS shed blood.

I should have said simply, the Lifestyle of Obedience produces a Walk that is MORE AND MORE LIKE CHRIST as we Mature Spiritually.

newbirth · Nov 20, 2014

VCO said:

as long as you say it , believe it and do it ....Give God the glory...

VCO · Nov 20, 2014

newbirth said:

New, you are scaring me, we are almost in total agreement.

GOD gets all the Glory
Because He empowers us to do what He wants.
We will Believe and will do what He wants, because HE is in control and empowering us, and because WE LOVE HIM with LOVE that comes out of the LOVE OF GOD that GOD the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts.

Now I may go a step further than you do,
I do not believe there is an exception to that rule,
IF THE MOMENT ONE BELIEVES, IT IS HEART KNOWLEDGE OF HIM;
instead of just intellectually in your head acknowledging facts about GOD.

As one theologian once said, the difference between being SAVED, and only thinking you are,
IS THE SAME DISTANCE IT IS BETWEEN YOUR BRAIN AND YOUR HEART.

Here is why I think that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

newbirth · Nov 20, 2014

VCO said:

bro Peter denied ,Thomas doubted....Those who believe make a conscious decision to do so....God does not make / force us to believe or obey....God gives us power to choose...whom the Son sets free is free indeed

the moment you believe means nothing...... if you do not obey the words that you believe...devils believe and tremble...
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

people say things because they sound good ...but that does not make it true...the difference between being SAVED, and only thinking you are,...is your obedience to God's word...

because you think it is true does not make it true....they went out because that was their choice....those who stayed did so because they made that choice....

VCO · Nov 20, 2014

newbirth said:

Could you PLEASE lose your presumptions about what you THINK I BELIEVE, long enough to actually HEAR what I SAY?

I use the Jewish definition of the word BELIEVE;

NOT the American English definition.

WHEN a JEW says I BELIEVE, it envelops acknowledgement of the Fact, putting your whole weight or TRUST on what you Believe, and proving what you Believe by your actions. ANYTHING LESS IS NOT THE BIBLICAL DEFINITION OF "BELIEVE".

If two Jew walked up to a frozen over Lake in early Winter,
and Jew #1 asked Jew #2, "Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on"?
And Jew #2 said, "Yes, I believe it is thick enough to walk on".
And then Jew #2 gingerly put one foot out and started to gently test the ice;
Jew #1, would shout, "LIAR! If you really believed it, you would have put your
whole weight on the ice, and walked out there."

THAT IS WHAT I mean by BELIEF that SAVES. TOTAL TRUST IN CHRIST,
SUBMITTING TO HIS LORDSHIP. You are SAVED before you have time to
step out on the ice and walk, which you absolutely WILL DO if your Gift of Faith
is the REAL DEAL, and not just intellectual head knowledge.

PACEMAKER · Nov 21, 2014

newbirth said:

VCO said:

newbirth, The Major Difference between the Old and New Covenant

is the movement from

The Old.....The External and Legalistic “water baptism”

The New... The Inner {Heart} and Personal..

[h=3]The Greater Glory of the New Covenant 2 Corinthians chapter 3[/h] 7 Now if the ministry that brought death,
which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory,
so that the Israelites could not look steadily

at the face of Moses because of its glory,
transitory though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry

that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory
now in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope,
we are very bold.
13 We are not like Moses,
who would put a veil over his face to prevent
the Israelites from seeing the end
of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were made dull,
for to this day the same veil remains when
the old covenant is read.
It has not been removed,

because ONLY in Christ is it taken away. ( This does Not ADD "water baptism")

15 Even to this day when Moses is read,
a veil covers their hearts.

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord,
the veil is taken away. ( This does Not ADD "water baptism")

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit,

and where the Spirit of the Lord is,
there is freedom.

18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate
the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image
with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, ( This does Not ADD "water baptism")
who is the Spirit.

newbirth, If Jesus Christ Knows your Heart
Then Why Do you Say that a person is Required
to be "water baptized"
FOR Forgiveness of Sins??
To Receive the Holy Spirit ??

Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: "water baptism"
but the Lord pondereth the hearts.

Luke 16:15
*And he said unto them,
Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; "water baptism"but God knoweth your hearts:
for that which is highly esteemed among men
is abomination in the sight of God.

Acts 15:8&9
8*And God, which knoweth the hearts,
bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost, "GIFT"
even as he did unto us;

9*and put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith. ( This does Not ADD "water baptism")

newbirth, Our Salvation is a GIFT from God Through Jesus Christ

Our CHOICE is to Accept or Reject the GIFT....

We ALL Fall Short of Gods Glory... SURRENDER......

WE Can NOT DO DO DO Enough to Deserve our Salvation...

“For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for ALL.....
to be testified in due time.”
1 Timothy 2:5-6

newbirth · Nov 21, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

newbirth said:

this is the difference...
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:41
King James Version

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

where else in the NT is the promise of the HS

because Christ commanded it in the scripture......
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

he did add water baptism....
Acts 10:47

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

through faith in Jesus Christ....doing is not to deserve...
Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

and that is enough reason to obey Him...

newbirth · Nov 21, 2014

VCO said:

does it say water and spirit .....or water alone..... or spirit alone?

my question is ....Is that the baptism Christ commanded us to do or the one He does...or is it happening simultaneously....???

[SUP]
41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

VCO · Nov 21, 2014

newbirth said:

How many times do I have to explain this. The Baptism that SAVES is a work of the Holy Spirit that happens the instant we Believe, and the Baptism that gives proof that We WERE SAVED, is our public identification with Christ by being obedient to being immersed in water.

newbirth · Nov 21, 2014

VCO said:

how does your belief save you? total trust and submission to Christ would involve obedience....you can believe all you want it is when you do that makes the difference between a hearer and a doer....just like putting your foot on the ice...
You want belief to save you without action....faith without works is dead.........we are saved by grace through faith....so it is through your act of faith and not just belief...which is what the devils do believe and tremble....

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

[SUP]17 [/SUP]That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

VCO · Nov 21, 2014

newbirth said:

Now let's see if your THEORY we are saved by grace through faith....through faith implies an on going process; hold any water, or if it is just pure FALSE DOCTRINE. Here goes, I am putting your theory to the TEST of Scripture, and the first one is in the verse you quoted:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved {past tense verbiage} by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.

That makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

Romans 5:9-11 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

The Past Tense Verbiage makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

Romans 8:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?

The Past Tense Verbiage makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

Ephesians 2:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),

The Past Tense Verbiage makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

Luke 19:9-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “Today salvation has come to this house,” Jesus told him, “because he too is a son of Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save the lost.”

The Past Tense Verbiage makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life.

The Past Tense Verbiage makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

John 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24[/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

The Past Tense Verbiage makes the theory of an "on going process of Salvation", a FALSE DOCTRINE.

ETC.

I am sorry, but we have put your theory to the Test of Scripture, and your theory has been proven to be a FALSE DOCTRINE.

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