What is best is to acknowledge truth and humble yourself when wrong.....Which verse states it is right or acceptable to agree to disagree? Your approach and attitude duly noted!
Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.
- Thread starter Jason0047
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What is best is to acknowledge truth and humble yourself when wrong.....Which verse states it is right or acceptable to agree to disagree? Your approach and attitude duly noted!
Well, I am bowing to say agree to disagree because you have not offered an explanation to the verses I put forth nor have you explained the relationship between wrong desire (or lack of one), temptation, and Jesus? You are just claiming that you are right and I am wrong (As if what you say is the standard of truth). My standard is the Word of God, so creating a case to prove your point using the Bible would be a good place to start.
I don't need to explain the verses you quoted as they are trumped by the verses that I have quoted which undermines your view....the words of Hebrews 2 and 4 proves that your view is in error, so any verse you think you may have is already contrary to the two verses out of Hebrews as well as Matthew, Mark and Luke's verses that apply unto the temptation of Jesus....so...until you can acknowledge the truth of Hebrews chapter 2 and 4 that deal with Christ being TEMPTED there is no sense in arguing a moot point....!
And to the bolded...your standard is to reject words and verse that are contrary to your view...so.....!
You are still ignoring what Hypostatic Union is.
According to Hypostatic Union, Jesus did not have a human spirit, and then also a divine spirit. He had one spirit, that was 100% human yet also 100% Divine.
The other orthodox view is that Christ entirely removed all of His Godhood during His Incarnation, being fully man alone during His life here, but with a clear conscience, as being the Son of God, and with the power of God, as being filled with the Spirit, and with the authority of God, as being fully obedient to the Will of God.
Both of those orthodox views counter you position.
Your position has Christ as being inhuman.
Part of the blessing of following Christ, is knowing that He is relatable, and that He can relate to us.
You can forget it....he has consistently proven that he is not open to learning and instruction even when you prove that his view is contrary to the truth as he consistently rejects words, the definitions of words and context in favor of man made phraseology, humanistic reasoning and garbled slang.......His Jesus is not the Jesus of the bible....My Jesus knows what I go thru as he was tempted, tested and enticed EXACTLY the same way I have been tempted, tried and enticed.....!
I have heard of this before and it doesn't make any sense. An amalgam of the human and the divine. But see, if this is the case, you run into several problems. One, if Jesus human nature can be tempted, then it would also have to include his divine nature (Which is Holy), too. However, the Scriptures say God cannnot be tempted. Yet, you are ignoring Christ's deity when you say that Christ was tempted as if you can take a scapel and cut out the divine portion of Christ from the human portion within this supposed conbined amalgam. It doesn't make sense. Jesus is God. And if he was also human in spirit mixed in with the divinity of the Word, then you cannot separate the two and say that only Jesus' human portion (i.e. his humanity) was being tempted. It's either an all or nothing deal. For if it is not, then there would be two spirits. A divine spirit and a human spirit.
But Jesus never gave us the indication that he had two spirits or that he combined with another human spirit or soul. Jesus said that He came down from Heaven. Jesus did not say, I came down from Heaven and joined with this man's soul. The Scriptures also say that the Messiah (Jesus) is from everlasting. This would be a contradiction if the Messiah was also had to wait in taking on a human spirit and soul, too (So as to become and amalgam or one with it). Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 8 that before Abraham was born, He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3. Jesus did not let us know he took on a human spirit in addition to him being the great " I AM ." Scripture also says that the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily. Scripture does not say that the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him body and soul.
In fact, we are ONLY to worship God. The Scriptures make this fact very clear. Jesus said we must worship in Spirit and in Truth. But if Jesus had a human spirit or human soul that He combined with, then that would present a problem. We would now be worshiping an amalgam of human spirit/soul with the divine Spirit of God. God would no longer be God anymore. But the Scriptures say God does not change (Which is a reference to His divine essence of being as Spirit and bahavior). Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
We know Jesus did not remove all of His Godhead. That is evil to say that. Jesus Christ came in the flesh (1 John 4:3). It's not, God was made flesh and became Jesus Christ. We are to confess that Jesus Christ came into the flesh. The fulness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily. Jesus received worship. He could only do this if He was God. If he was human in soul or spirit in some way, then people would be worshiping part of a created human soul and spirit mixed in with the divine (Which would be a contradiction). Jesus also said that He would raise this temple from the dead. Jesus He would do this. Not anybody else. Jesus said He has power to quicken just as the Father has power to quicken. The Scriptures also say that Jesus held everything together by the word of HIS POWER when he purged us of our sins. Jesus had power. To deny that is to deny the Scriptures. The Scriptures say, God was manifested in the flesh. He is our God whoo was with us.
Last edited:
I've never understood a rejection of the Hypostatic Union, but acceptance that we ourselves have a hypostatic union in being both flesh and spirit. Why is it possible for us, but impossible for God? That to me is the true limitation upon God.
No rejection here. I believe in the Hypostatic Union and the Kenosis. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man (bodily) which was for the taking on of our sins within his body. Jesus did not take on our sins within some supposed human soul and or human spirit (or an amalgam or mix of those things into the divine). Jesus took on our sins within his body. Then He conquered the grave of sin and death with His resurrection and became our mediator after his first ascension (after talking with Mary).
I believe the Eternal Word was made flesh. Not made flesh and soul and spirit. God was maniffested in the flesh. God was not manifested in human soul and human spirit along with the flesh. Jesus said He was from of everlasting. He did not say He was from everlasting and yet also came into being (as human soul and spirit) with his birth, too. Jesus did not claim to be a new creation or an amalgam in addition to coming down from Heaven. Jesus is 100% God (as the Eternal Word) joined with Jesus being 100% man (Which is flesh and blood).
I believe the true teaching of the Kenosis is that He did not give up all or some of His divine attributes. Jesus merely suppressed His divine attribuate of Omniscience so as to be like a man (Limited in Knowledge). That divine attribute was not taken from Him. He still had it and could access it any time He wished because He was still 100% God. A God who is unchanghing in Spirit and essence of being.
I believe the Eternal Word was made flesh. Not made flesh and soul and spirit. God was maniffested in the flesh. God was not manifested in human soul and human spirit along with the flesh. Jesus said He was from of everlasting. He did not say He was from everlasting and yet also came into being (as human soul and spirit) with his birth, too. Jesus did not claim to be a new creation or an amalgam in addition to coming down from Heaven. Jesus is 100% God (as the Eternal Word) joined with Jesus being 100% man (Which is flesh and blood).
I believe the true teaching of the Kenosis is that He did not give up all or some of His divine attributes. Jesus merely suppressed His divine attribuate of Omniscience so as to be like a man (Limited in Knowledge). That divine attribute was not taken from Him. He still had it and could access it any time He wished because He was still 100% God. A God who is unchanghing in Spirit and essence of being.
In other words, if Jesus Christ did not come down in the flesh as 1 John 4:3 states, and Jesus was just an amalgam or a mix of a new being (i.e. God being divine and also being human in soul and spirit), then we would be worshping a different God then the Israelites had worshiped.
To put it to you another way, people are focused on their little world. ME. It's all about ME. But it's not. The Israelites abided with Christ and worshiped the same God that we do today. We do NOT worship a different God who is now an amalgam mixed with human spirit and human soul. The physical body of Jesus is just the Temple. He said so Himself.
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Last edited:
People talked about the Son of God before He came in the flesh.
"He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God" (Daniel 3:25).
Also, before Christ's incarnation Daniel had a vision of the Son of Man (Who is Jesus) visiting the Ancient of Days (Who is the Father), too (See Daniel 7).
So with the Holy Spirit, we have power over sin... We can do the same, Good post
No doubt and I agree...Jesus said it best...The spirit is in deed willing, but the flesh is weak....he fails to understand that Jesus was all man with the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling in HIM....just like we are through the flesh dia the pride of life, lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes which can be enticed...the sin comes when we give into and entertain the thoughts of lust and or pride and or follow through by action. This is what he fails to understand and in understanding this truth leads to the present error that he is standing on.
How could God be pleased, Jesus would have to be doing something right to please Him, correct? Dc laid out a bunch of scripture to show you Jesus walked as we did, He is just better then us in every way...
This means Jesus had choice, free will...
Last edited:
Jesus overcame sin and temptation because He was God Almight in the flesh! Jesus is not like one of the many of supposedly great men thru out history who inspires us. Jesus was not just some great guy alone to lead us just as a man alone. Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sin and THRU Him I have the capability to live and love. It's not about following Jesus as a man alone. It is about allowing Jesus to live within you. If Jesus as a man alone, it does nothing for me. Jesus is God and gives me life and lives in me and does the good works within me. Jesus is not just one of many great men who inspire. Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh who is my Savior and by His Spirit He is able to save me and make me stand in Him. I don't think there and marvel at all of Jesus works as a man and think I can be just like HIm. No. I can never be exactly like Jesus because He was God who was worshiped. Yes, I am to conform to the image of Christ and His behavior. But I am not to be God. Jesus is God. My inspiration is not in looking at Him as a man. My inspiriation is in looking at Him as God and what He had done for me and continues to do thru me (In Him being God still).
If you will read thru the thread, I provided Scripture that DC ignored. I explained the 2 passages in Hebrews to Him in light of other Scripture, but He kept repeating the same two verses. Hebrews is taking about external temptation and how Jesus was in our place as a man being tempted externally (Knowing what it is like to be tempted by others while in the flesh). God for the first time was in human flesh (and was grieved by men's temptations towards Him). This is how he is able to comfort the brethren because He was in their place as a man being tempted externally. 1 John 2:16 says that the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is of this world and is not of the Father. Jesus was one with the Father. So it is safe to assume that Jesus did not have the lust of the flesh, too (Because Jesus is one with the Father). For Jesus rebuked his disciples for desiring to see the Father. See, the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily. Jesus said, I came down from Heaven. Jesus did not say, I joined with a new soul and human spirit. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. DC also did not explain what temptation was in relation to wrong desire and Jesus, either. In other words, how can you be tempted by something without wrong desire? In other words, to suggest Jesus could be tempted suggest that there was some kind of darkness or sin within him. But there was not. Jesus was without sin. Jesus was impeccable and perfect in everything He did beccause He was God Almighty in the flesh. Jesus was not just another great guy to inspire us. Jesus lives within us. Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh whereby He suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience so as to be like a man. We are to confess that Jesus comes into the flesh (1 John 4:3). Anyone who does not do so is antichrist. Yet, folks are saying here that Jesus Christ did not come into the flesh. They are saying Jesus Christ came after He was born.
Last edited:
He was The Man, and He is part of God as the Holy Spirit is part, He was different but He was the same as man. He was born of a women of flesh, His Father was One in heaven. He was God and man....