Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[Brainfreeze]

No, my friend. God did not create the soul of Jesus. Jesus Christ came into the flesh. It says so in 1 John 4:3. Re-read that passage and or quote it for me here. Jesus also said I came down from Heaven. Jesus did not say, God the Father created my soul and I also came from Heaven. Micah 5:2 says the Messiah is from everlasting. OT Scripture says there is no Savior beside Him. Meaning, the Savior can only be exclusively God and not God creating the soul of a human to be inhabited by the Son. The Son of God is uncreated and eternal. The Son of God merely inhabited an empty shell of a body. It was just a vessel. Jesus said his body was just a vessel when He referred to his body as a Temple. There is no Scripture verse that says God created the soul of Jesus. That would be wrong to say that. Christ is eternal and has always existed.

Who's The Father of Jesus, Jason ? He is before and is after, doesn't mean He wasn't given milk at birth, doesn't mean Mary wasn't upset when He got a bo bo.. He was human and God, this shell or " temple " you speak of, you act as if He were just numb to life, and I'm telling you He felt twice as hard as we feel, He was Man, and God. I don't know why you like to complicate things. He didn't have some human spirit... What is that ? The Holy Spirit, ... 2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. We have Gods Spirit, if we are saved. Now who created the soul, if God didn't ?

 

[Jason0047]

Who's The Father of Jesus, Jason ? He is before and is after, doesn't mean He wasn't given milk at birth, doesn't mean Mary wasn't upset when He got a bo bo.. He was human and God, this shell or " temple " you speak of, you act as if He were just numb to life, and I'm telling you He felt twice as hard as we feel, He was Man, and God. I don't know why you like to complicate things. He didn't have some human spirit... What is that ? The Holy Spirit, ... 2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. We have Gods Spirit, if we are saved. Now who created the soul, if God didn't ?

God the Father did not create the Eternal Son of God. The Godhead or the Trinity is eternal and uncreated. The Word (Second person of the Godhead) had entered the flesh (or vessel) thru Mary. Yes, God created mankind with a soul. But Jesus was not like any ordinary man. Jesus has no beginning nor end. Christ is eternal and uncreated. Christ is unchanging in Spirit and behavior. For Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[Brainfreeze]

God the Father did not create the Eternal Son of God. The Godhead or the Trinity is eternal and uncreated. The Word (Second person of the Godhead) had entered the flesh (or vessel) thru Mary. Yes, God created mankind with a soul. But Jesus was not like any ordinary man. Jesus has no beginning nor end. Christ is eternal and uncreated. Christ is unchanging in Spirit and behavior. For Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Yes, they are all one, I agree with this statement, but I think it's more complexed then either of us can fathom, as I said earlier, I'm not even going to try to understand things, that are beyond simple, this helps no one... And this external talk is all in your head.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, they are all one, I agree with this statement, but I think it's more complexed then either of us can fathom,

Actually, It's not complex to understand the Godhead or the Trinity if one studies the subject. It makes perfect sense to me.

as I said earlier, I'm not even going to try to understand things, that are beyond simple, this helps no one..

God's Word says we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God. God's Word says the Spirit will guide us into all truth. This would obviously be with God's Word.

And this external talk is all in your head.

So you don't believe there is such a real concept as external temptaton that exists within the real world today? How so? Do you need me to give you more examples?


Actually, people just don't do their own homework (or truly study to show themselves approved unto God). Look up the Greek Lexicon of the word "tempted" and you will see that one of it's definitions is "tested." Certain Modern Translations use this word "tested" in the passage in Hebrews. The KJV online dictionary defines "tempted" as a trial. Even the origin of the word "tempt" has the word "test" in it's definition. In other words, if I say Jesus was "tested" in all points like us, it takes on an entirely different meaning that what many people want it to say. Therefore, they create some false theology on a misunderstanding of just one word within Scripture.

 

[TaylorTG]

Yes, there are differences between external and internal temptations, and these classifications are recorded in scripture.

See the following bible passage: Joshua 7:16-26

[HR][/HR]"I have indeed sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel. This is what I have done: Among the spoils, I saw a handsome Babylonian mantle, silver, and gold; I took them in my greed. They are now hidden in the ground underneath my tent."

"I have indeed sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel. This is what I have done: Among the spoils, I saw a handsome Babylonian mantle, silver, and a bar of gold; I took them in my greed. They are now hidden in the ground underneath my tent."
[HR][/HR]
Achan wouldn't have been the first to lay his eyes upon the spoils of war, and yet, he is the only soldier who took such treasures. Why? Because there are levels, or stages of temptations. As one passes through each stage, his chance of committing sin increases.

I saw
He, like the other soldiers, notices the treasures.

I took them
Reading between the lines, Certain thoughts entered Achan;s mind. This is the start of temptation, and our ability to resist it is based on prayerful action and general benevolence. He was unable to resist the temptation, and so took the items for himself.

They are now hidden
The sin has been committed. Before he was caught the next day, he could have repented. He did not do so, however, and paid the price for it.


The simple act of seeing a treasure is not innately sinful, but when it may be become possible factor of sin, then it becomes a source of external temptation. Once it does, it affects the human eye in a way where one must now fight against the sinful inclination internally.


[HR][/HR]Christ experienced temptations in a different way than us humans do. Even though he experienced external temptation, he has not been affected by its internal aspects.

In other words, Christ was fully exposed to sin, but in a different way than us humans. He was tempted, but his temptations, unlike that of our own, did not go beyond the first stage.

 

[VioletReigns]

Brother Jason, I read & reread your posts and asked the Lord to help me understand where you are coming from. I then read this in 2 Corinthians 5:20-21: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

I don't know about the external or internal temptations and I see nothing concrete in the Scriptures about that. But I am beginning to see what you're pointing at. Jesus was not able to sin because He did not have a sin nature (knew no sin).

I still do believe Jesus was tempted in everything as we are, but His wasn't acquainted or familiar with sin. He felt the pull or enticement of the devil but it was not possible for Him to fall into sin because it wasn't in His nature.


I think that is what you were trying to get at, correct? That Jesus was a human and his flesh was tempted at all points (Heb.4:15), as mentioned in 1 Jn.2:16- the world—1) the lust of the flesh, 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life (1 Jn.2:16). He was tempted directly by the devil to do evil by disobeying God the Father and coveting the kingdom. But even Satan the most power creature was unable to tempt Jesus to do sin or evil (Mt.4) because Jesus had no sin nature.

Are we on the same page now, dear brother?

 

[Brainfreeze]

Yes, there are differences between external and internal temptations, and these classifications are recorded in scripture.

See the following bible passage: Joshua 7:16-26

[HR][/HR]"I have indeed sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel. This is what I have done: Among the spoils, I saw a handsome Babylonian mantle, silver, and gold; I took them in my greed. They are now hidden in the ground underneath my tent."

"I have indeed sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel. This is what I have done: Among the spoils, I saw a handsome Babylonian mantle, silver, and a bar of gold; I took them in my greed. They are now hidden in the ground underneath my tent."
[HR][/HR]
Achan wouldn't have been the first to lay his eyes upon the spoils of war, and yet, he is the only soldier who took such treasures. Why? Because there are levels, or stages of temptations. As one passes through each stage, his chance of committing sin increases.

I saw
He, like the other soldiers, notices the treasures.

I took them
Reading between the lines, Certain thoughts entered Achan;s mind. This is the start of temptation, and our ability to resist it is based on prayerful action and general benevolence. He was unable to resist the temptation, and so took the items for himself.

They are now hidden
The sin has been committed. Before he was caught the next day, he could have repented. He did not do so, however, and paid the price for it.


The simple act of seeing a treasure is not innately sinful, but when it may be become possible factor of sin, then it becomes a source of external temptation. Once it does, it affects the human eye in a way where one must now fight against the sinful inclination internally.


[HR][/HR]Christ experienced temptations in a different way than us humans do. Even though he experienced external temptation, he has not been affected by its internal aspects.

In other words, Christ was fully exposed to sin, but in a different way than us humans. He was tempted, but his temptations, unlike that of our own, did not go beyond the first stage.

Saw is not a sin....taking is..

 

[Brainfreeze]

Actually, It's not complex to understand the Godhead or the Trinity if one studies the subject. It makes perfect sense to me.


Yes Jason, I believe it is, I believe He come in the flesh, added to God.. It added a human experience, your saying it didn't. Your saying Mary was Just a vessel, and He was just in a vessel, your saying He had no soul, how did He weep ? How did He get angry at the money changers, if no soul ?
He was the same, and is the same, would mean, He didn't live a human life, your saying we don't affect God, and it is Gods son, their different, John 3:16

God's Word says we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God. God's Word says the Spirit will guide us into all truth. This would obviously be with God's Word.


none of this is explained in scripture, so to say, we must show ourselves approved, at this instant, ...I'm sorry but you won't be saving any lives with this...

So you don't believe there is such a real concept as external temptaton that exists within the real world today? How so? Do you need me to give you more examples?

There is sin and not sin... There is test and no test... Simple... This internal stuff is bogus.. No scripture, sorry.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Saw is not a sin....taking is..

What change that saw to sin, is coveting ... He had a processed thought of wanting something that wasn't his... Sin
seeing and wanting ... Different..

 

[TaylorTG]

Saw is not a sin....taking is..

What change that saw to sin, is coveting ... He had a processed thought of wanting something that wasn't his... Sin
seeing and wanting ... Different..

Reread my post sir, and you'll find that you misunderstood it.

 

[Jason0047]

Brother Jason, I read & reread your posts and asked the Lord to help me understand where you are coming from. I then read this in 2 Corinthians 5:20-21: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

. But I am beginning to see what you're pointing at. Jesus was not able to sin because He did not have a sin nature (knew no sin).

I still do believe Jesus was tempted in everything as we are, but His wasn't acquainted or familiar with sin. He felt the pull or enticement of the devil but it was not possible for Him to fall into sin because it wasn't in His nature.

God bless your heart, dear sister. I am glad you prayed over it with the Lord and re-examined the Scriptures. There are many who are not willing to do that (Even though I love them anyways).

Oh, and yes, exactly. Jesus was tested by the devil, but Jesus did not have the capacity to indulge the devil any way whatsoever because it was not in His nature to do so because He is God.

I don't know about the external or internal temptations and I see nothing concrete in the Scriptures about that

Well, as you are probably aware, something does not have to be mentioned in the Scriptures in order for it to exist. Smart phones, tablets, the internet, and cars are not mentioned in Scripture and yet they exist. In fact, many things that existed thru out history are not mentioned in the Scriptures. Yet they still existed. It's the same concept with internal temptation and external temptation. It exists in real life and can also be seen in the Scriptures in the case with Jesus.

For example: (You might have missed my analogy before),

But let's say some guy tries to tempt a man who is born blind into looking at women lustfully in a strip club (when he does not know this man is blind). The guy who is tempting this blind man is tempting this blind man externally into lusting after women in a strip club. Yet, the blind man has no vision to see these women lustfully, so he has no capacity to look upon these women lustfully because he is blind. There is no internal temptation with this blind man. His temptation is all external by the guy trying to tempt him wrongfully.

The devil tempted Jesus externally. Yet Jesus had no internal temptation or desire or capacity to indulge the devil's external temptations.

I think that is what you were trying to get at, correct? That Jesus was a human and his flesh was tempted at all points (Heb.4:15), as mentioned in 1 Jn.2:16- the world—1) the lust of the flesh, 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life (1 Jn.2:16). He was tempted directly by the devil to do evil by disobeying God the Father and coveting the kingdom. But even Satan the most power creature was unable to tempt Jesus to do sin or evil (Mt.4) because Jesus had no sin nature.

Are we on the same page now, dear brother?

Yes, I believe we are on the same page. Thank you so much for being a good Berean and asking the Lord on this matter (Jeremiah 33:3).

Love, peace, and blessings be unto you, dear sister.
And Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[dcontroversal]

Brother Jason, I read & reread your posts and asked the Lord to help me understand where you are coming from. I then read this in 2 Corinthians 5:20-21: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

I don't know about the external or internal temptations and I see nothing concrete in the Scriptures about that. But I am beginning to see what you're pointing at. Jesus was not able to sin because He did not have a sin nature (knew no sin).

I still do believe Jesus was tempted in everything as we are, but His wasn't acquainted or familiar with sin. He felt the pull or enticement of the devil but it was not possible for Him to fall into sin because it wasn't in His nature.


I think that is what you were trying to get at, correct? That Jesus was a human and his flesh was tempted at all points (Heb.4:15), as mentioned in 1 Jn.2:16- the world—1) the lust of the flesh, 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life (1 Jn.2:16). He was tempted directly by the devil to do evil by disobeying God the Father and coveting the kingdom. But even Satan the most power creature was unable to tempt Jesus to do sin or evil (Mt.4) because Jesus had no sin nature.

Are we on the same page now, dear brother?

You are correct as there is no such thing as internal and external temptation and to twist the word temptation which is also translated ENTICE as he has done to promote his false teaching undermines the reason for the temptation which he cannot grasp because he wont open his eyes that he may see.

 

[Jason0047]

Saw is not a sin....taking is..

I want to clarify, so there is no confusion here. A person can have bad thoughts that are considered evil to God. Jesus said looking upon a woman in lust is committing adultery with her in your heart. So looking at someone can be done in a way that is evil or wrong (Of which Jesus never had never done before; For Jesus never had bad or wrong thoughts).

 

[Jason0047]

You are correct as there is no such thing as internal and external temptation and to twist the word temptation which is also translated ENTICE as he has done to promote his false teaching undermines the reason for the temptation which he cannot grasp because he wont open his eyes that he may see.

Good morning.
And Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[dcontroversal]

In addition, you said before within this thread that Isaiah 45:7 teaches that God creates evil when this clearly is not what it says according to the context. That is another reason I said you believe that God has the potential do do evil. I say this not to wound you dear brother, but to show you that what you have been saying does not add up with what you want to believe about God in how He is good.

Anyways, I love you in Christ Jesus.
Peace be unto you and please be well.
Please know I am not perfect, but only Jesus Christ is perfect.
For His love and goodness is so much more than we can imagine. I am trying to get folks here to simply realize that fact (According to the Scriptures).[/QUOTE]

You mean according to opinion....SHOW TWO SETS OF VERSES IN CONTEXT that states, shows proves the difference between INTERNAL and EXTERNAL TEMPTATION......YOU CANNOT DO IT.....more heresy and deceit as I NEVER ONCE said that JESUS did evil, wrong, or sin.....YOUR view is TAINTED and incorrect....

SHOW and POST THE VERSES that state there is a difference in temptation and the GREEK WORDS

IN ALL POINTS LIKE WE ARE TEMPTED<------ALL IS CONCLUSIVE OF ALL when used in CONTEXT and YOU ARE SAYING that HE WAS NOT TEMPTED AS WE ARE and it is a lie, misleading and contrary to the truth.....

VERSES IN CONTEXT....5th time I have asked as well as others and you CANNOT do it as there are NONE!

 

[dcontroversal]

I want to clarify, so there is no confusion here. A person can have bad thoughts that are considered evil to God. Jesus said looking upon a woman in lust is committing adultery with her in your heart. So looking at someone can be done in a way that is evil or wrong (Of which Jesus never had never done before; For Jesus never had bad or wrong thoughts).

I suggest a study of the word LUST as there are 5 or 6 different Greek words translated lust!
AND they all do not mean what you imply.....!

 

[VioletReigns]

Yes, I believe we are on the same page. Thank you so much for being a good Berean and asking the Lord on this matter (Jeremiah 33:3).

Love, peace, and blessings be unto you, dear sister.
And Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks so much, dear Brother Jason. I pray you and your family & friends enjoy a joyful Thanksgiving Day!

 

[Jason0047]

...

Actually, It's not complex to understand the Godhead or the Trinity if one studies the subject. It makes perfect sense to me.

Yes Jason, I believe it is,

We can discuss the Trinity at another time (of course), my friend. As for the Incarnation...

I believe He come in the flesh, added to God.. It added a human experience, your saying it didn't. Your saying Mary was Just a vessel, and He was just in a vessel,

Yes. The Eternal Word or Spirit of Christ entered the empty shell of a human body in the form of a baby thru Mary and by the power of the Holy Ghost.

your saying He had no soul,

There was no need for a human soul. The Eternal Word who is God and who is Spirit already has a soul (Which is a being's mind, will, and emotions). Philippians 2:6-9 said He humbled himself to be like a man; This is in reference to how Christ suppressed (not eliminated) His divine attribute of Omniscience (i.e. To know all things) and how He gave up His glory in ruling with the Father.

how did He weep ? How did He get angry at the money changers, if no soul ?

As I mentioned previously, the Scriptures mention how God has a soul in several places. Granted, God's soul is eternal and uncreated, but God who is Spirit has a mind, will, and emotions. For God as Spirit has shown both sorrow and anger in God's Word before. As for Christ shedding actual tears, this a product or manifestation of the Son of God's sorrow in being in the vessel of a human body. For our soul can show forth emotion in our physical body just as Christ who has an Eternal soul is able to do the same.

He was the same, and is the same, would mean, He didn't live a human life, your saying we don't affect God, and it is Gods son, their different, John 3:16

As I said before, the Son of God existed as Spirit and was known as the Son of God before His incarnation. Read Daniel chapter 3 in the KJV.

As for your reference that we as humans do not effect God: Well, it depends on how you define, "How we effect God." If you mean you mean that God can feel love, sorrow, anger, happiness, etc. over what we do, then... yes (most definitely). However, if you mean that we can tempt God (Whether it be God the Father or the Son of God), then the answer would be a... no. For God cannot be strong armed into our way of thinking or persuaded to do any bad or evil. For sin runs contrary to the very nature of who God is.

As for your reference of Jesus not living a human life: Again, it depends on how you define a human life. If you mean Christ took on a real physical body of a man as a vessel (Where the Son experienced fatigue, hunger, pain, and death thru a physical body) and He suppressed His divine attribute in having all knowledge, then... yes (That would be true). However, if you mean God took on a newly created human soul or another person's human soul, then... no. For the soul within the body or temple of Jesus was the Word's soul that is eternal and or uncreated.

God's Word says we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God. God's Word says the Spirit will guide us into all truth. This would obviously be with God's Word.

none of this is explained in scripture, so to say, we must show ourselves approved, at this instant, ...I'm sorry but you won't be saving any lives with this...

2 Timothy 2:15 in the KJV says to study to show yourself approved unto God. So yes. That would be in the Word of God. Scripture also states the Spirit will guide a person into all truth. Scripture says that "Thy Word is truth."

If you are referring to how Christ came directly in the flesh with no mention of entering a human created soul: Well, I already gave you several Scriptural references for that. If you need me to repeat them, I would be more than happy to do so, my friend. However, I want you to stop and think for a moment. When was it ever acceptable to God to worship a created soul or created spirit? See, Jesus accepted worsbip. If Jesus was an amalgam or mix of a new created soul or spirit, then people would not be worshipping the same God the Israelites had worshipped. Jesus' body was just a Temple or shell.

So you don't believe there is such a real concept as external temptaton that exists within the real world today? How so? Do you need me to give you more examples?

There is sin and not sin... There is test and no test... Simple... This internal stuff is bogus.. No scripture, sorry.

Please see my recent reply to Violet. I think I give a pretty good explanation on this point.

Anyways, may God bless you.
And Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Jason0047]

Thanks so much, dear Brother Jason. I pray you and your family & friends enjoy a joyful Thanksgiving Day!

Thank you so much Violet. You are very kind. May the Lord's presence be with you strongly during your time with your family this Thanksgiving day.

 

[Jason0047]

Please see my recent reply to Violet. I think I give a pretty good explanation on this point.

Anyways, may God bless you.
And Happy Thanksgiving.

Dear BR:

On the point of external and internal temptation: See Post #371.

I hope it helps.

Anyways, may God bless you.