Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[eternally-gratefull]

Goodness, newbirth, you pretty much misunderstood everything I said in the comment you quoted and responded to.........oh well, it happens all the time here........

Thats why I have him on ignore. I Just look at what he says when everyone is responding to him so I can see why everyone is saying what they are saying.

it is like talking to a kid, and I will be honest and confess a sin here, I do not have the patience for that.

I do not know how people can keep talking to him.. I guess you all have more patience than I do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

e..t... said: No. You still have it out of line, you just have a few things out of place.

Not as I read Scripture..........you iz da one needing a realignment..........

anyway..........

lol

its ok, we can leave it there. Not worth getting in a tussle over.

 

[p_rehbein]

You is doing it again...........................SIGH!!!!!!

Originally Posted by p_rehbein

Brother...........conviction is not repentance...........conviction is becoming aware of the NEED for repentance..........just saying


Brother, conviction causes repentance (a change of heart) that change of heart causes faith, which causes us to confess.





THAT'S THE SAME DURN THING!!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You is doing it again...........................SIGH!!!!!!

Originally Posted by p_rehbein

Brother...........conviction is not repentance...........conviction is becoming aware of the NEED for repentance..........just saying


Brother, conviction causes repentance (a change of heart) that change of heart causes faith, which causes us to confess.





THAT'S THE SAME DURN THING!!!!!

lol no.

Saying conviction is repentance, is not even close to saying it causes it.

One is equal. one is cause and affect.

 

[p_rehbein]

lol no.

Saying conviction is repentance, is not even close to saying it causes it.

One is equal. one is cause and affect.

LOL.............not what I meant..........you are saying the same thing I said.......just different............GOODNESSGOLLYGEE!!

 

[newbirth]

What has been said is that you can't HAVE FAITH without works - that is not true. FAITH comes FIRST, FIRST, FIRST then the works. Abraham believed God - that was FIRST - THEN - he was circumcised - THEN - he had the confidence and trust [faith] in God to offer Isaac. So faith without works - is DEAD faith - is it NO faith? or is it lying DORMANT, doing nothing, not being energized or exercised - as in DEAD - as in imperfect? Abraham's works made his faith perfect.

who said that....??

you can't HAVE FAITH without works

it is called faith without works is dead....you calling James a liar??? you are just trying to be technical...

James 2:22 - faith wrought with works - synergeo - 1. to work together, help in work, be partner in labour; 2. to put forth power together with and thereby to assist

not so hard to understand ...together....not before and after....not first and second

James 2:24 by works a man is justified not by faith only - ergon - 1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied, A. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking; 2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind; 3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work - that faith you have is what energizes your works

so if there is no work the faith has nothing to energize and therefore useless /dead until it is joined with works.....

You are saved by faith

please quote scripture as they are written....we are saved by grace through faith.....

- but if works do not follow it is a DEAD faith

through faith indicates works ...because we know ...

that faith you have is what energizes your works

your words

- BUT if your faith is followed by good works then it is made perfect by those works. (2:22)

you are separating faith from works....it makes faith dead and works become evil....
Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

We cannot say a man is justified freely in one chapter [Romans] of scripture then come along and contradict that in another chapter [James] of scripture. There has to be something wrong with our understanding

of course we can ...if you don't look at faith/works as trying to earn salvation...
Romans 3:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

In scripture we need to see "to whom" specific scriptures are addressed - Romans is addressed to all who be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints [Romans 1:7] which would be the church. James is addressed to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad [James 1:1] Maybe there is the conundrum with our understanding - Honestly, I'm not sure, and honestly, I don't know! I just see a BIG, DIRECT contradiction and I know there shouldn't be any . . .

the gospel is one message to all mankind....there is no contradiction in the word only in our understanding of the word....I pray that God shows you the truth sis

 

[newbirth]

Goodness, newbirth, you pretty much misunderstood everything I said in the comment you quoted and responded to.........oh well, it happens all the time here........

you suppose I misunderstood.....and I suppose that you misunderstood my response.....oh well, it happens all the time here.

 

[hopesprings]

I agree with everything said, except would translate the law differently, it is more than the ten commands, it is any command God ever gave in scripture. Including the laws of the mosaic covenant, and the laws of the new covenant.

Adding some or all to the gift of grace, is doing what Paul spoke against, Preaching a different gospel.

got it off the carm website
just thought it was interesting in light of all the talk on legalism

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL.............not what I meant..........you are saying the same thing I said.......just different............GOODNESSGOLLYGEE!!

I had to go back and look.

You said conviction is not repentance. I assume you thought that is what I was saying, I was not. so I responded by saying what I thought repentance was. You misunderstood me, or I you, or something.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

got it off the carm website
just thought it was interesting in light of all the talk on legalism

its ok, It was great, just wanted to make some corrections that all.

 

[p_rehbein]

May I approach the Bench Your Honor? Thanks...............p.rehbein's exhibit #1:

Originally Posted by p_rehbein

It's called being "under conviction" by the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit moves upon a persons heart, and causes them to become acutely aware of their sinfulness, and their need for God, they become "convicted" of their sinfulness. Because of this "conviction," some believe that they truly are sinful and in need of the salvation only God can give, and they choose to humble themselves before Him and ask forgiveness.........."repentance."

E.T.'s Response:

The bolded part is repentance. This is the change of heart and mind caused by the spirit.


So, you see, Your Honor, when I said that E.T. stated that "conviction" was "repentance," and he said he didna...............well............seeing is believing........

 

[Yahshua]

If you do a work to earn something, You are using a legal means of trying to earn whatever it is you are working for.

Hence the term legalism.

Jews tried to get saved by the law

Many in the NT try to get saved by following a law

It is all legalism.

These statements are false. The Pharissees tried to get saved by their man-made traditions that contradicted God's commands. Just like we've established Sunday, Christmas & Easter as days to keep holy for God...men "self" imposing rules/traditions for gaining God's righteousness. Self...Righteousness.

lol, Nice try, If your working to gain something FOR YOURSELF, ie eternal life, THOSE ARE YOUR OWN WORKS. even if it is following all or parts of any command God gave, whether in the OT or NT.

Well I guess I finally found the source of disagreements. The root. We all believe differently when it comes to what "good works" are and what they are not.

It is not "my" work if God said to do it. It's a good work; God's work: "and this is the work of God, that you believe in whom God has sent" (John 6:29). "Why do you call me lord and you do not do what I say" (Luke 6:46). You said to someone earlier that one "does" because one trusts God. Which means the opposite is true: one who "doesn't" really trust God is one who will not do. The following is Christ saying this, not me. It's right here in scripture:

Luke 18:20
A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 20 "You know the commandments,..."


Matthew 19:16-17
And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Scripture says these are "good" works; good things to do. Now there is an addition to doing these works and that is having the faith of Christ, but these aren't my own works detailed in scripture (highlighted for your benefit). The one you say you follow said do this to inherit eternal life.

 

[Angelmommie]

Your works do not save u
for the upteenth time
if they could save, if there was even the most remote chance that they could...then there is no possible reason why the God of the universe had to die for you. After all...you don't need him....you could just take care of it all by yourself

Beautifully said..saying works save us takes everything away from Jesus..He says the only way to the Father is through Him..we can not save ourselves through works...only Jesus can save!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

May I approach the Bench Your Honor? Thanks...............p.rehbein's exhibit #1:

Originally Posted by p_rehbein

It's called being "under conviction" by the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit moves upon a persons heart, and causes them to become acutely aware of their sinfulness, and their need for God, they become "convicted" of their sinfulness. Because of this "conviction," some believe that they truly are sinful and in need of the salvation only God can give, and they choose to humble themselves before Him and ask forgiveness.........."repentance."

E.T.'s Response:

The bolded part is repentance. This is the change of heart and mind caused by the spirit.


So, you see, Your Honor, when I said that E.T. stated that "conviction" was "repentance," and he said he didna...............well............seeing is believing........

lol.. See you misunderstood.

From what I understood you to say, Repentance was asking God for forgivness. after you believed.

I responded by showing you in the bolded part what repentance was.

It is becoming acutely aware of their need for God, and their sinfulness, based on conviction

 

[SoulWeaver]

Let's go into some examples...

No Carrying anything (like one's Mat) on Sabbath = Legalism
- Established by man (Pharisees)
- Defied by Christ because God never said not to do it

You are wrong, it was God's commandment.

Jer 17:21 Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;
Jer 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

These statements are false. The Pharissees tried to get saved by their man-made traditions that contradicted God's commands.

You do not read much of the bible do you. Every time a pharisee spoke about eternal life, they said they deserved it because they followed the law. I follow the ten commands from birth most say. Or i am not like the sinner, I fast, I tithe, I (insert any one of Gods commands)

You can twist it however you want, Paul said if your going to get circumcised, your required to follow the whole law. Thus even he admited, legalism is one who follows the law of moses.

 

[p_rehbein]

Boy, right about now, I really, really wish I had one of them "pulling their hair out" smileyface icons..........sigh.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Boy, right about now, I really, really wish I had one of them "pulling their hair out" smileyface icons..........sigh.......

I would not have any cyber hair left!! lolol

 

[psychomom]

It is becoming acutely aware of their need for God, and their sinfulness, based on conviction

and here's some theological terms to all this...

a high anthropology leads to a low Christology,
and a low anthropology leads to a high Christology.

now, for folks like me who need a translation,
thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought leads us to thinking less of Jesus than we ought.
(and vice versa)

 

[newbirth]

I agree with everything said, except would translate the law differently, it is more than the ten commands, it is any command God ever gave in scripture. Including the laws of the mosaic covenant, and the laws of the new covenant.

Adding some or all to the gift of grace, is doing what Paul spoke against, Preaching a different gospel.

what about the law of faith???? have you thrown it out too???