Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[eternally-gratefull]

don't change the subject....
the discussion is about being made partakers of the holy Ghost....you are changing it to what is impossible...which I have no interest in discussing...tell me how one can be a partaker of the Holy ghost and yet not receive the holy Ghost....that is impossible

typical. The passage says it is impossible.

What is impossible. Why are you so afraid?

 

[newbirth]

I can;t reconcile myself with God. that would be law. I need God to reconcile me.

[h=1]2 Corinthians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]19 [/SUP]To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

If i have to do this to resave myself everytime I sin, I was never saved, and I am under law. I am going to the mercy seat how many times a day? a week? A month? What are we mocking the death of Christ?

1 John 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Why would I admit that? I would be a pharisee trying to earn my salvation and not trusting god to save me, How can I reconcile myself? the penalty of sin is death, I would have to die in order to reconcile myself. Once I am dead (as the op points out) I can not do anything.

you are reconciled when you confess your sin repent and obey the word....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Corinthians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Why do you miss the bolded part.

1 John 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So we can lose salvation, get it back. lose it get it back.

What did hebrews say was impossible. Again you ignore the question. whats wrong, yuo know it will prove you wrong?

you are reconciled when you confess your sin repent and obey the word....

I was reconciled when God said I was.

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;

eph 2: 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

 

[newbirth]

typical. The passage says it is impossible.

What is impossible. Why are you so afraid?

this is what is impossible.... you cannot preach repentance and baptism and receiving the gift of the HS to one that has fallen away......seeing that they were partakers and now neglect God...they know the way so it is impossible to start them afresh....
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is what is impossible.... you cannot preach repentance and baptism and receiving the gift of the HS to one that has fallen away......seeing that they were partakers and now neglect God...they know the way so it is impossible to start them afresh....
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

so. If one is saved, and because of sin, lost that salvation. then they could never be saved again. (have their repentance renewed) so much for having to repent of every sin, This passage is clear. there is only one repentnance, you screw up again, and your done.

Thanks, so much for your saved, not saved, saved argument. Once you lose salvation. Your done.. Unless christ comes and pays for that sin again (which is exactly what the author is trying to show you)

The people trying to go back to law needed to hear this. as do you!

 

[ChristIsGod]

this is what is impossible.... you cannot preach repentance and baptism and receiving the gift of the HS to one that has fallen away......seeing that they were partakers and now neglect God...they know the way so it is impossible to start them afresh....
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Brother, an earnest, sincere question I have -- do you think that those that go the Romans 1:18-32 way come under the Heb 6 & 10 condemnation?

 

[newbirth]

Why do you miss the bolded part.

i missed nothing..this is a response to you saying you cannot reconcile yourself to God.....Paul tells the Corinthians to be reconciled to God...

So we can lose salvation, get it back. lose it get it back.

salvation is in Christ....if you are not in Christ you have no hope.....when you sin you cannot be in Christ

What did hebrews say was impossible. Again you ignore the question. whats wrong, yuo know it will prove you wrong?

what you see in red is impossible...
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I was reconciled when God said I was.

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;

eph 2: 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

just so you know sin separates us from God.....so if you have sinned since you were reconciled and have not confess and repented you are separated from God and needs to be reconciled....

 

[Marian29]

All these threads about faith and works. yet it seems no one understands what the word dead means? Why is that? Why have we given Satan the power over us to take a word, which means one thing, and make it means something not even close to the original meaning?

The bible says because we are in Adam We are dead, It says because of sin we are dead. It says the penalty of sin is death.

If someone is dead, they are dead. Their heart has stopped beating, they have stopped breathing. They have to be BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.

person who is dead can not perform CPR on themselves. They can not inject lifesaving medicine into themselves, They can not do ANYTHING to bring themselves back to life.

They must be RESUSCITATED, They must be GIVEN the life-giving medicine by someone who has the power to save them. They must be REGENERATED (that which is dead, brought back to life)

Yet I keep hearing things like,

"you going to tell me if a savior threw you a life preserver and you were saved, you did not save yourself?

"God did his part. now you need to do your part and go get baptized in water"

"Faith and works go hand in hand, you can not be saved by faith alone."

are they serious?

I am dead. how am I going to grab onto the life preserver? How am I going to get up and walk to the baptismal, the river or where ever I need to go to be baptized. I AM DEAD. I can not walk, crawl or roll anyplace. I AM DEAD.

As far as faith goes. If it is DEAD it is lifeless. It is powerless. It can not do anything, It needs to be regenerated to give it life. Otherwise it is useless. It can do nothing (it can't save you, let alone do any work) yet they say this dead faith is a real faith??

And finally. I have this question.

Can anyone show me any person who was dead. regenerated back to life by lifesaving medical attention, and given a new life. And came to a point in their life where they no longer believed the person who saved them had that power to do so?

Can any one show me how anyone, who died because they lied cheated and steeled their whole lives, They drank themselves to death, They acknowledged the sin and filth they had in their lives, which caused their death, GO BACK AND DO THOSE THINGS AGAIN?

Are people really that naive that they would think dead does not mean dead, and people who died because of sin would return to that sin after they were brought back to life and given a second chance?

I believe the person is sleeping, when dead. (as Jesus said)...
Luke 8:52 (KJV)
"And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth."

 

[Marian29]

All these threads about faith and works. yet it seems no one understands what the word dead means? Why is that? Why have we given Satan the power over us to take a word, which means one thing, and make it means something not even close to the original meaning?

The bible says because we are in Adam We are dead, It says because of sin we are dead. It says the penalty of sin is death.

If someone is dead, they are dead. Their heart has stopped beating, they have stopped breathing. They have to be BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.

person who is dead can not perform CPR on themselves. They can not inject lifesaving medicine into themselves, They can not do ANYTHING to bring themselves back to life.

They must be RESUSCITATED, They must be GIVEN the life-giving medicine by someone who has the power to save them. They must be REGENERATED (that which is dead, brought back to life)

Yet I keep hearing things like,

"you going to tell me if a savior threw you a life preserver and you were saved, you did not save yourself?

"God did his part. now you need to do your part and go get baptized in water"

"Faith and works go hand in hand, you can not be saved by faith alone."

are they serious?

I am dead. how am I going to grab onto the life preserver? How am I going to get up and walk to the baptismal, the river or where ever I need to go to be baptized. I AM DEAD. I can not walk, crawl or roll anyplace. I AM DEAD.

As far as faith goes. If it is DEAD it is lifeless. It is powerless. It can not do anything, It needs to be regenerated to give it life. Otherwise it is useless. It can do nothing (it can't save you, let alone do any work) yet they say this dead faith is a real faith??

And finally. I have this question.

Can anyone show me any person who was dead. regenerated back to life by lifesaving medical attention, and given a new life. And came to a point in their life where they no longer believed the person who saved them had that power to do so?

Can any one show me how anyone, who died because they lied cheated and steeled their whole lives, They drank themselves to death, They acknowledged the sin and filth they had in their lives, which caused their death, GO BACK AND DO THOSE THINGS AGAIN?

Are people really that naive that they would think dead does not mean dead, and people who died because of sin would return to that sin after they were brought back to life and given a second chance?

Another point:

Rom. 5:21 (KJV) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

So, through Adam humanity became sinner, and could die. But through Jesus, we gained life, eternal life. The believers who dies or sleeps in this time we live, we'll be waked up by the sound of the trumpet, to the Eternal Life. We must not fear death, once we believe in our Lord and Dad Jesus. Who already woke up, and is the first from the first ressurection.

 

[dcontroversal]

salvation is in Christ our hope of eternal life...our life must be sanctified in Christ by the word of truth....if we say we are in Christ and walk in darkness we lie...we must continue in Christ always ...in him is no darkness....therefore if one is guilty of sin he cannot be abiding in Christ...so the question is not about losing salvation and regaining it but about abiding in Christ or not...

So, you 100% of the time abide in Christ and never sin is that what you are saying and if not then by your doctrine you can loose your salvation....so how many times have you lost it? If we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth s not in us....Look Nobirth, no matter how you slice and dice you teach you can lose it if you do not 100% continually abide in Christ...only one who could do that and he is in Heaven mediating...!

 

[Jabberjaw]

Yeah so how many times have you lost your salvation? According to your theology if you sin you loose your salvation is that right? and if YES...how many times have you lost your salvation?

According to your theology sinners go to heaven, do you believe someone that sins is spiritually dead? do you believe that spiritually dead people will go to heaven? You must reject that or claim Christ and the cross were not necessary, you cannot do both.

 

[Marian29]

Shouldn't we write less and be more objective?... and attack less each other.

Sometimes I realize many people participates, but 20 or 30% of them, only, focus on the topic of the thread (in general). Many starts pointing others mistakes, and it just turn into a mess.
Another point is, if you really want that someone reads your post, write it shortly. You don't need to set up the entire Scriptures to defend one single point of view.

 

[Ella85]

Why can't everyone just agree that -

1. We have been born into a fallen world
2. That we have been born with sin
3. We fail daily
4. We should confess our sins
5. Follow Christ's example and love one another.


Which ever and what ever it is that you believe in, being once saved always saved and or not....
the facts still remain the same that we are sinners! We need to pray daily, ask Christ into our lives and repent!

Salvation depends on YOU. Not me...or what I think, but how you live your life according to the gospel.

 

[Marian29]

Why can't everyone just agree that -

1. We have been born into a fallen world
2. That we have been born with sin
3. We fail daily
4. We should confess our sins
5. Follow Christ's example and love one another.


Which ever and what ever it is that you believe in, being once saved always saved and or not....
the facts still remain the same that we are sinners! We need to pray daily, ask Christ into our lives and repent!

Salvation depends on YOU. Not me...or what I think, but how you live your life according to the gospel.

Amen.
Praise the Lord...

 

[newbirth]

so. If one is saved, and because of sin, lost that salvation. then they could never be saved again. (have their repentance renewed) so much for having to repent of every sin, This passage is clear. there is only one repentnance, you screw up again, and your done.

Thanks, so much for your saved, not saved, saved argument. Once you lose salvation. Your done.. Unless christ comes and pays for that sin again (which is exactly what the author is trying to show you)

The people trying to go back to law needed to hear this. as do you!

is that what you understand the scripture says...? the passage makes no mention of lost salvation....no mention of never be saved again....no mention of only one repentance...

 

[newbirth]

So, you 100% of the time abide in Christ and never sin is that what you are saying and if not then by your doctrine you can loose your salvation....so how many times have you lost it? If we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth s not in us....Look Nobirth, no matter how you slice and dice you teach you can lose it if you do not 100% continually abide in Christ...only one who could do that and he is in Heaven mediating...!

you teach if one does not continue to abide in Christ they are still saved....
quote where I said...

So, you 100% of the time abide in Christ and never sin

argue with the word bro....wrestle all you want with it....


John 9:31

Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[newbirth]

Brother, an earnest, sincere question I have -- do you think that those that go the Romans 1:18-32 way come under the Heb 6 & 10 condemnation?

Romans 1 is inclusive .....all men who are ungodly and unrighteous...who hold the truth in unrighteousness...
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Heb 6 would be included if they remain fallen....
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.......

No one can be renewed to the point where they first received the word and the foundation of baptism and repentance...but it does not mean one cannot repent and continue from where they are.....albeit they bring shame to the name of Christ on account off their falling away

Heb 10 is saying the same thing...the remission of sins and gift of the HS cannot be duplicated in a person...
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.....

it does not mean your sins after cannot be forgiven....Christ sacrifice is a one time operation per person....which gives boldness to go before the throne of grace.....[SUP]because he also mediates for us

19 [/SUP]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

 

[newbirth]

No I do not believe it.

I believe IF ONE COULD FALL AWAY (which is what the passage says ) THEY CAN NEVER BE RENEWED, for they CRUCIFY THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AND PUT HIM TO SHAME.

How many times do you want to crucify Christ?

so you believe one can lose their salvation....yes or no?

 

[john832]

I believe the person is sleeping, when dead. (as Jesus said)...
Luke 8:52 (KJV)
"And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth."

You are absolutely correct. There is a resurrection of the dead.

 

[oyster67]

So, you 100% of the time abide in Christ and never sin is that what you are saying and if not then by your doctrine you can loose your salvation....so how many times have you lost it? If we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth s not in us....Look Nobirth, no matter how you slice and dice you teach you can lose it if you do not 100% continually abide in Christ...only one who could do that and he is in Heaven mediating...!

Amen, I agree with 99% of what OSAS'ers say. I believe you can't loose your salvation, and I also believe He will never leave or forsake us. The reason that I am not quite there is because of things like Hebrews 6:4-10. It seems to be addressed to believers. Verses 9 and 10 seem to indicate that this is not the normal or common way for a believer to go, but still, it makes casting away one's salvation sound like a possibility. I have full assurance of my Salvation because I am not going to do that. Not many would spit in the dear Lord's face once they realized how much He loves them. Would you want God to have to suffer the presence of such a perfidious one for all eternity?