Do you agree with the doctrine that says JESUS died spiritually?

[john832]

Yes, His body was in the grave, but He was not..........that's what is being argued by some. His spirit, God the Son did not die.

And you know that because you have scripture that says that? Christ said that HE, not His body, but HE was dead...

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Are you going to tell me that His fleshly body is what was made alive evermore? There is direct scripture to contradict that.

Christ loved His creation so much that He REALLY DID DIE for it.

 

[p_rehbein]

And you know that because you have scripture that says that? Christ said that HE, not His body, but HE was dead...

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Are you going to tell me that His fleshly body is what was made alive evermore? There is direct scripture to contradict that.

Christ loved His creation so much that He REALLY DID DIE for it.

Again, not discussing His fleshy body............the discussion is His Spirit........the Spirit of God.........God the Son

As for Scripture........I think what is needed is a Scriptural account of the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ from Scripture, and I am working on that now..........that way folks can read SCRIPTURE and decide for themselves this issue........

 

[Word_Swordsman]

F.Y.I.
This is significant because the Bible says, "Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." In my opinion, these Bible teachers have exceeded what is written in the word of God and in so doing violated Scripture.

Did Jesus die spiritually? | Christian Apologetics and ...
carm.org/did-jesus-die-spiritually Cached
by Matt Slick. There are many Christian preachers today who teach that Jesus died spiritually. As defined by them, this concept is a false doctrine.

CARM, though having a lot of useful information, is itself an untrustworthy site unless you cling to Calvinism, which is not truth. I will not. I am one that God "chose" many times, putting me under griping conviction, yet I resisted for many years. Once I heard the full gospel delivered by a Spirit-filled preacher speaking non-stop several hours straight out of the Bible I finally understood what about Jesus, then chose to believe and follow. If God could choose who to be saved then no person could resist the first choosing.

Acts 2:31 (KJV) [SUP]31 [/SUP] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Your verse reads "abandon". The Greek is forsake, leave, reserve. That Gr word roots from kata + leipo, which can imply abandonment. The choice of "abandon" doesn't fit the prophecies. Being left somewhere also doesn't mean one was not there. I left my wallet at work. I never "abandoned" it, as that's a deliberate choice to do that. I left it. I did choose to continue leaving it there, but returned to get it. I couldn't say my wallet never was there since I had it back in my pocket.

Jesus rose from his buried body, went to Hell just long enough to reclaim His body before it began to decompose. The Jews would have to reject Him later if He went into the fourth day in burial.

Matthew 12:38-41 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
[SUP]40 [/SUP] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jonah "went through hell" so to speak, in Sheol as spoken of in the OT, the land of dead men where they mourn, was continually aware of what appeared to be death, but was resurrected to preach. Jesus was to surpass what Jonah did. Three days and three nights in "the heart of the earth" is not a description of a shallow grave or tomb.

Satan is often thought to live there in the heart of the earth, poking the miserable people with a pitchfork. He is not there, never has been there according to scripture. He is loose on the surface of the earth. People that live by his ideals die and go to Hell/Sheol, their bodies usually only a few feet covered. Jesus did not suffer "at the feet of Satan" there. He suffered at His trial and on the cross.

Now let's weigh this out with Luke 23:42-43 (KJV) [SUP]42 [/SUP] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. [SUP]43 [/SUP] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Where do the other scriptures say Jesus went for three days and nights? Not into the high heavens, but into the heart of the earth. The thief went with Jesus. There that man and all others in the bosom of Abraham reserved for reward from God heard Jesus preach and teach, then led the believers up and out to their graves, then they were released from their graves to visit bodily downtown Jerusalem. Matthew 27:50-53 (KJV)
[SUP]50 [/SUP] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[SUP]51 [/SUP] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[SUP]52 [/SUP] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[SUP]53 [/SUP] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[p_rehbein]

Did not endorse the Site.........simply gave as F.Y.I. for consideration.................

Worthy of note is this Excerpt...........

Luke 23:

41

And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

44
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

45
And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

47
Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

But He was dead and He was not with the Father for three days and three nights...

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is of truth Jesus lay in the grave 3 days and rose again and ascended to his Father thereafter. Allow me to correct myself slightly. Jesus' spirit went to his Father's hands.

Therefore the point to make that his spirit did not die still remains. There are many verses throughout the Bible about the strength and might of God's hands; how he can send anyone down and lift anyone up. Here are two good verses to consider said by Jesus.

John 10:28-29
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I read on, I see now that some are adjusting their comments from Jesus WAS DEAD, to well, He took upon Himself sin and was separated from God..............HUGE DIFFERENCE there..........goodness.

that is what spiritual death is.

if someone would have been listening. they would have seen this, and not been so confused.

DEAD is ceasing to exist.............being apart from God, separated by a sin filled life does not mean one does not exist.

dead does not mean ceasing to exist. when your body dies, you will still exist, unless you think that once we die in this world. we cease to exist, and have no soul which will enter eternity.

Physical death is a separation of the soul from the body, the body dies.

spiritual death is the separation of our spirit from God (due to sin) the spirit, as far as God is concerned, is dead. that is why we must be born again.

did you not comprehend what Jesus was saying when he spoke to Nicodemus? why does one need raised spiritually from the dead to new life, if they are already alive?

Now, if this NEW slant is the one people want to put forth, then, yes, on the cross Jesus took upon Himself the sins of all mankind..........He who knew no sin, became sin............BUT at no time did He cease to exist as God the Son.......It was His precious blood that was the price for us, not three days in a tomb..........

NEW? Dude you have some issues there, it is not a new slant, It is what (at least I, since I am sure you are directing this to me) have said from the start.

I never said Jesus ceased to exist. Can you show me where you saw that, or HOW you got that from what I have been saying?

 

[phil112]

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


Let there be no more foolish talk of such nonsense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sounds like yet another twisted rubbish. Jesus made himsel flesh, lived fleshed and preached God's laws in the flesh. and most importantly, Was put on the cross in the flesh. Why would Jesus die in spirit and say that he died for the world in the flesh? it would make him a liar right? The Devil is the father of lies. and the more the devil opens his mouth of lies. people rather listen to his lies than believe that Jesus died on the cross as a human being and in the flesh.

he did die in the flesh, He died while he was hanging on the cross.

or do you not remember that thing we like to read every easter.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing[SUP][e][/SUP] that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

How can "all things already have been accomplished" and how can Jesus say, "it is finished" if the penalty of sin had not yet been paid for? Jesus had to have died the death we deserve for this to happen.

the penalty of sin is not physical death, if it was adam would have died on the spot when he sinned, and each child born would die immediately when they committed their first sin.

The penalty of sin is spiritual death, separation from God. Adam and God was separated the moment he sinned, That is why Adam forgot so much about God and did what he did immediately following, why? the things of God are foolishness to those who are not his (dead to him)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


Let there be no more foolish talk of such nonsense.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing[SUP][e][/SUP] that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

yep. let there be no more foolishness, by saying Jesus did not die BEFORE he said all things were completed in full.

 

[dcontroversal]

No....His death was physical and goes along the lines of...it is appointed unto men ONCE to die (physically) as the SECOND death (eternally)is being cast into the lake of fire after not being found written in the book of life (REVELATION 20)

Jesus took upon himself the form of a servant and that of a man so as to be tempted like as we are, suffer as we do and taste death for ALL MEN so as to be a great High Priest, being able to sympathize with us and fully understand what it means from a human aspect to be human.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No....His death was physical and goes along the lines of...it is appointed unto men ONCE to die (physically) as the SECOND death (eternally)is being cast into the lake of fire after not being found written in the book of life (REVELATION 20)

Jesus took upon himself the form of a servant and that of a man so as to be tempted like as we are, suffer as we do and taste death for ALL MEN so as to be a great High Priest, being able to sympathize with us and fully understand what it means from a human aspect to be human.

all this is true bro. but he had to pay the penaty of sin first. otherwise, the rest of it would have been useless, because we would all be dead in our sin with no hope.

 

[dcontroversal]

all this is true bro. but he had to pay the penaty of sin first. otherwise, the rest of it would have been useless, because we would all be dead in our sin with no hope.

No doubt...without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins....the shedding of blood is physical.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No doubt...without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins....the shedding of blood is physical.

amen, The spiritual death that followed, when our sins were placed on his body, was spiritual.

now you have the physical and spiritual requirements which can take our sin.

 

[p_rehbein]

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


Let there be no more foolish talk of such nonsense.

The danger of such teaching is that "mistakenly" or not.........people who teach that Jesus, God the Son died (spirit), they are indirectly denying the Deity of Christ..........and that is a very dangerous thing to do in my opinion.

Jesus is God..........God has no beginning and no end.........God can not and will not ever die.......

The "image of man" that He took upon Himself was the fleshy/earthy body.............YES it died, but God the Son did not die.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

It is of truth Jesus lay in the grave 3 days and rose again and ascended to his Father thereafter. Allow me to correct myself slightly. Jesus' spirit went to his Father's hands.

Therefore the point to make that his spirit did not die still remains. There are many verses throughout the Bible about the strength and might of God's hands; how he can send anyone down and lift anyone up. Here are two good verses to consider said by Jesus.

John 10:28-29
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Yes, but to be entirely right His body lay in the tomb 3 days and nights, at the point of death before burial while still alive on the cross yielding His spirit into the Father's hands. That doesn't happen for people who are spiritually dead. God doesn't receive lost spirits. Jesus' spirit was very much alive, held by God for a moment, with no indication the Father didn't give Jesus His spirit back for that period in Sheol/Hell those three days and nights. Since God accepted Jesus' spirit, there would be no reason His holy spirit not to be present in a place He created for the Devil. God is Lord over even Hell. It is part of His creation. His spirit was not tainted by sin because He never inwardly sinned. His undefiled body bore the sins of all who would believe.

At His resurrection moment Jesus re-entered His body by His still unchanged holy glorious spirit that had never sinned. His soul had never sinned either, fully intact throughout the ordeal. He had never subjected His body to corruption all his life. Sin was conferred onto it, imputed. In a pitifully inadequate analogy it would be like a man whose little brother faced prison time. The judge agrees to let the older brother take the punishment instead, though the older was entirely innocent. There would be no eternal shame for that man, no actual guilt at any point, only imputed guilt.

After those three days and nights Jesus arose from the tomb, met Mary. He was at that moment on a mission to fulfill His eternal High Priest duty of taking His own blood to the heavenly temple before the Father. In His glorified body He was cleansed of sin and fit for that duty, like the earthly high priest of the Aaronic order taking the blood into the innermost Holy of Holies where the ark lay, only Jesus was of the higher eternal order after the type of Melchizedek, going from that tomb directly to the heavenly Holy of Holies. That required that Mary must not touch His body, else it be defiled for the purpose of that holy trip. That same day Jesus returned from that duty, letting people touch Him that evening.

So it was that Jesus was buried in the tomb, leaving His body there, then soul and spirit entering Sheol/Hell 3 days and nights, at least part of that time in Paradise below, preaching to the captives that were of faith, but had not received their inheritance. It doesn't say Jesus never visited the deepest parts of the heart of the earth. He led them out to their graves. Upon His resurrection those were released from their graves to visit Jerusalem, while Jesus encountered Mary briefly, then ascended to the Holy of Holies and the Father, then returned to earth hours later, appearing in His glorified body to the apostles. Days later Jesus ascended for the last time to the Father and resumption of command of His throne there.

Hope that helps clarify.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The danger of such teaching is that "mistakenly" or not.........people who teach that Jesus, God the Son died (spirit), they are indirectly denying the Deity of Christ..........and that is a very dangerous thing to do in my opinion.

Jesus is God..........God has no beginning and no end.........God can not and will not ever die.......

The "image of man" that He took upon Himself was the fleshy/earthy body.............YES it died, but God the Son did not die.

Non of this has any bearing on spiritual death.

So not sure what is so dangerous, Jesus never ceased to exist, spiritually or otherwise.

 

[psalm6819]

It feels like a bunch of lawyers-the discussion has devolved into "What is spiritual death..."

 

[Word_Swordsman]

No doubt...without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins....the shedding of blood is physical.

Yes. That was the price Jesus paid, His body and blood. He endured all that flogging, the trial, the cross finished the whole of His punishment for us sinners as prophesied in Isaiah 53. He bore our sins on the cross for those who believe. Those sins existed because of the law which convicted sinners. All men who died were freed from the law, but not the judgment of sin. God doesn't reserve judgment for the innocent falsely charged with breaking the laws. So Jesus could not legally be punished after death after having been punished for sins He didn't commit before death. He desended to clear Hell of Abraham and all his children of faith still waiting for their promise they didn't receive before Jesus came to them. They have it now, in Heaven, with Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes. That was the price Jesus paid, His body and blood. He endured all that flogging, the trial, the cross finished the whole of His punishment for us sinners as prophesied in Isaiah 53. He bore our sins on the cross for those who believe. Those sins existed because of the law which convicted sinners. All men who died were freed from the law, but not the judgment of sin. God doesn't reserve judgment for the innocent falsely charged with breaking the laws. So Jesus could not legally be punished after death after having been punished for sins He didn't commit before death. He desended to clear Hell of Abraham and all his children of faith still waiting for their promise they didn't receive before Jesus came to them. They have it now, in Heaven, with Jesus.

Agree with everything except the use of the word hell...Abraham and the believers were in paradise described as Abraham's bosom...the LOST were across the great gulf of division (which couldn't be crossed) cooking in hell.....Luke 16..

Sheol-->GRAVE and mistranslated as HELL by KING JIM translators.......

 

[Word_Swordsman]

It feels like a bunch of lawyers-the discussion has devolved into "What is spiritual death..."

That would be fitting. The doctrine stated in the OP is on trial here. It is then vital the jury understands what spiritual death is to discern whether it happened.