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E
so, his own merit rather than their father's mercy? 
well he was still the fathers son, He just got legalistic in his thinking, I know many christians who do this, I have done this myself. sad to say but i have. A few times I have gotten hurt because I did not get the praise I thought I deserved when I had a great teaching. I forgot, it was not me, but it was God who gave me the words, he should get the credit anyway.
J
so, his own merit rather than their father's mercy?
Luke 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends.
Is he not relying on and boasting of his works, seems to love his clique, but not seeming to love his brother or father, find joy in the father's joy, in his brother's return to well being? Maybe a dead, heartless Pharisee lurking in there, the usual suspects?
Then,
Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
The older son should see he's privileged and fine, only he cannot see, in his self righteousness, "but for the grace of God go I." He has no appreciation the father also blessed and loved him, always, and been good to him, doesn't even recognize the love of his father that naturally loves his younger brother, also, and he doesn't want anybody else to partake of what he sees as his privileges, his kingdom, to the exclusion of other sinful "rabble." The older son perceives he puts his pants on differently, would even deign to tell the father who and how he should love. Sort of like a Pharisee, again?
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
The older brother is the picture of a loveless Pharisee, high on himself and his dead works, I believe our Lord sending the message of the inner man that's dead.
But this story is making me hungry, going to go slay the fatted sandwich!
P
i've thought a lot about this, and written some stuff, but i can't say it better than Matt Slick:
Moralism has different meanings, but in relation to Christianity it is the practice of keeping various moral laws so as to please God and obtain and/or maintain one's salvation. Moralism is similar to legalism where keeping the Old Testament commandments is advocated in order to achieve and/or maintain salvation.
...as it relates to the Christian faith, moralism is the position of obtaining and/or maintaining our right standing with God by behaving morally. Such a teaching is a false gospel, which is warned about in Galatians 1:8-9. We are not made right before God by our moral behavior. We are not kept right with God by our moral behavior. Instead, our position with God is obtained completely by his grace. It is maintained by his grace and not by our adherence to moral principles and laws. After all, if righteousness could come through the law (keeping moral principles) then Christ died needlessly (Galatians 2:21).
Finally, if you want to get a better idea of what moralism is, then just think of the New Testament Pharisees who sought to do what was right in order to please God and be saved on the day of judgment. Jesus condemned this false gospel.
Moralism is a false gospel | moralism is like legalism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
i'm still open to other thoughts, though.
Moralism has different meanings, but in relation to Christianity it is the practice of keeping various moral laws so as to please God and obtain and/or maintain one's salvation. Moralism is similar to legalism where keeping the Old Testament commandments is advocated in order to achieve and/or maintain salvation.
...as it relates to the Christian faith, moralism is the position of obtaining and/or maintaining our right standing with God by behaving morally. Such a teaching is a false gospel, which is warned about in Galatians 1:8-9. We are not made right before God by our moral behavior. We are not kept right with God by our moral behavior. Instead, our position with God is obtained completely by his grace. It is maintained by his grace and not by our adherence to moral principles and laws. After all, if righteousness could come through the law (keeping moral principles) then Christ died needlessly (Galatians 2:21).
Finally, if you want to get a better idea of what moralism is, then just think of the New Testament Pharisees who sought to do what was right in order to please God and be saved on the day of judgment. Jesus condemned this false gospel.
- And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted," (Luke 18:9–14).
Moralism is a false gospel | moralism is like legalism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
i'm still open to other thoughts, though.
J
I alls think that man may be a bit weird, Schiz. If one repents, counts themselves dead to sin and becomes alive in Christ, wouldn't this indicate a desire to improve? Is wishing to be conformed to the image of Christ improvement we all attain to, ya' think? What is that pastor's church, the Church of the Immaculate Status Quo?
The gospel is salvation from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) at the final judgment
by the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77)
through faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 2:8-9),
which results in right standing (justification/righteousness) before God (Ro 5:17),
and produces the obedience of faith (sanctification) through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Its focus is God and sonship of the Father.
Moralism is the practice of morality by one's own choice and will, a cleaned-up life, a swept-out house.
Its focus is one's own virtue.
by the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77)
through faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 2:8-9),
which results in right standing (justification/righteousness) before God (Ro 5:17),
and produces the obedience of faith (sanctification) through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Its focus is God and sonship of the Father.
Moralism is the practice of morality by one's own choice and will, a cleaned-up life, a swept-out house.
Its focus is one's own virtue.
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There's some truth in that. Much Gospel call runs along the lines of "Come to Christ and He will get you off drugs...He will take away your sadness,... relieve you of your debt," etc.
Rather it should be "He died for your sins to save you from eternal destruction and grant you eternal life etc".
There are too many promises of bliss and prosperity here on earth. I would say it is misdirected into the temporal.
Rather it should be "He died for your sins to save you from eternal destruction and grant you eternal life etc".
There are too many promises of bliss and prosperity here on earth. I would say it is misdirected into the temporal.
E
I agree, Like legalism, it is a dangerous road, Imagine coming to Christ thinking he will save you from sin, from drugs, from whatever, only to find out after you get saved, that it still is not easy, I still sin, I still struggle with these sins, it was not the overnight help I thought it would be,
instead of giving God time to work on you, many have walked away feeling more hopless then they were before they came to God. all because the message of salvation was wrong.
God wants to saved people, then work on their sin issues (when he is not able to because we are now his children)
Very true........but that doesn't mean He can not take away our earthly afflictions (know you didn't say that), because He can heal our earthly bodies, and does........well, in my opinion........we are told to pray for healing.......
Still, agreed that the FOCAL POINT of preaching should be on Eternal Salvation............
Still, agreed that the FOCAL POINT of preaching should be on Eternal Salvation............
P
Moralism is but one more way that people try to pretend they don't need God or that God does not exist. They believe they can be good without God.
The whole problem with that little theory is this: We wouldn't have morals if not for God. The very distinction of right and wrong is from God. That is what our conscience is. He wrote His laws in our hearts and in our minds.
Just one more example of foolish people that want to believe they are the highest authority in their life.
The whole problem with that little theory is this: We wouldn't have morals if not for God. The very distinction of right and wrong is from God. That is what our conscience is. He wrote His laws in our hearts and in our minds.
Just one more example of foolish people that want to believe they are the highest authority in their life.
O
Phil,
you are so right when you declare that Jesus Christ created the phenomena of Morality.
but life show us that there are (2) versions, and both are Biblical -
(SPIRITUAL-GODLY-MORALITY) vs. (WORLDLY-LETTER-MORALITY)
although before my or my wife's conversion, we were each at different levels of
worldly-moral-standards, such as others that we knew and grew up with.
for the 'most part', my wife and myself, 'before conversion', paid our debts:
would this be considered = (worldly-moral)?
choosing not to steal? = (worldly-moral)?
and so on....
after conversion, the difference was definitely evident to us, as we recognized
the Holy Spirit working and changing our hearts and minds.
you are so right when you declare that Jesus Christ created the phenomena of Morality.
but life show us that there are (2) versions, and both are Biblical -
(SPIRITUAL-GODLY-MORALITY) vs. (WORLDLY-LETTER-MORALITY)
although before my or my wife's conversion, we were each at different levels of
worldly-moral-standards, such as others that we knew and grew up with.
for the 'most part', my wife and myself, 'before conversion', paid our debts:
would this be considered = (worldly-moral)?
choosing not to steal? = (worldly-moral)?
and so on....
after conversion, the difference was definitely evident to us, as we recognized
the Holy Spirit working and changing our hearts and minds.
Lk 15:30 "And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf."
The prodigal is an example that a Christian cannot live anyway he chooses and still be saved....the prodigal became spiritually dead then alive again.
Lk 15:2 "And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."
The purpose of the parables in Lk 15 was to show Jesus went to sinners for the Jews rejected Him. The older son represents these scribes and Pharisees that complained about Christ going to the Gentiles whom the scribes and Pharisees hated. Coffman Commentary aptly puts it "The persons primarily in view, as represented by the elder son, were the scribes, Pharisees, and other religious leaders of Israel. It was their anger at the Lord's inclusion of publicans and sinners as objects of heavenly grace which, in a large degree, motivated their hatred of Jesus. The fierce religious pride and exclusiveness of the leaders were but the metastasis of the cancer of selfishness within them; and their attitude toward others was an inherent contradiction of the purpose of God, whose love of all men Jesus had come to proclaim. The selfishness of the religious leaders manifested itself in their despising the Gentiles, but it did not stop there. Inherent in the nature of selfishness is the constant restriction and withdrawal flowing out of it; and the progression of selfishness in Israel's leaders had, in the times of Jesus, reached a level in which most of the chosen people themselves were also despised by their leaders. On one pretext or another, they hated everybody but themselves. Even of the multitudes of their own people, the Pharisees said, "This multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed" (Jn 7:49)."
The older son displayed the selfishness of the scribes and Pharisees in their thinking salvation only belonged to them and not those Gentile dogs.
The prodigal is an example that a Christian cannot live anyway he chooses and still be saved....the prodigal became spiritually dead then alive again.
Lk 15:2 "And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."
The purpose of the parables in Lk 15 was to show Jesus went to sinners for the Jews rejected Him. The older son represents these scribes and Pharisees that complained about Christ going to the Gentiles whom the scribes and Pharisees hated. Coffman Commentary aptly puts it "The persons primarily in view, as represented by the elder son, were the scribes, Pharisees, and other religious leaders of Israel. It was their anger at the Lord's inclusion of publicans and sinners as objects of heavenly grace which, in a large degree, motivated their hatred of Jesus. The fierce religious pride and exclusiveness of the leaders were but the metastasis of the cancer of selfishness within them; and their attitude toward others was an inherent contradiction of the purpose of God, whose love of all men Jesus had come to proclaim. The selfishness of the religious leaders manifested itself in their despising the Gentiles, but it did not stop there. Inherent in the nature of selfishness is the constant restriction and withdrawal flowing out of it; and the progression of selfishness in Israel's leaders had, in the times of Jesus, reached a level in which most of the chosen people themselves were also despised by their leaders. On one pretext or another, they hated everybody but themselves. Even of the multitudes of their own people, the Pharisees said, "This multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed" (Jn 7:49)."
The older son displayed the selfishness of the scribes and Pharisees in their thinking salvation only belonged to them and not those Gentile dogs.
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