L
Laodicea
Guest
What Bible texts do you have to show Daniel 9:27 is future and not fulfilled?
Two Beasts
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What Bible texts do you have to show Daniel 9:27 is future and not fulfilled?
C
CRC
Guest
In a divinely inspired dream, the prophet Daniel saw a series of four beasts rising out of the sea, each representing a successive world power. The first beast, a winged lion, represented Babylon. The second was “like a bear.” The account continues: “This is what they were saying to it, ‘Get up, eat much flesh.’” (Daniel 7:5) The fearsome bear pictured Medo-Persia.
True to Daniel’s prophecy, Medo-Persia displayed a voracious appetite for conquest. Not long after Daniel’s vision, Cyrus defeated the Medes and then waged war against neighboring Lydia and Babylon. His son Cambyses II conquered Egypt. Later Medo-Persian rulers expanded the empire even farther.
In a separate but related vision, Daniel saw a ram “making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south.” The prophecy was fulfilled when Medo-Persia made “thrusts” against other nations, including mighty Babylon. An angel of God interpreted this vision, saying to Daniel: “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns stands for the kings of Media and Persia.”—Daniel 8:3, 4, 20.The symbolism of “beast” representing kingdoms also use in the Bible book of Revelations.
True to Daniel’s prophecy, Medo-Persia displayed a voracious appetite for conquest. Not long after Daniel’s vision, Cyrus defeated the Medes and then waged war against neighboring Lydia and Babylon. His son Cambyses II conquered Egypt. Later Medo-Persian rulers expanded the empire even farther.
In a separate but related vision, Daniel saw a ram “making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south.” The prophecy was fulfilled when Medo-Persia made “thrusts” against other nations, including mighty Babylon. An angel of God interpreted this vision, saying to Daniel: “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns stands for the kings of Media and Persia.”—Daniel 8:3, 4, 20.The symbolism of “beast” representing kingdoms also use in the Bible book of Revelations.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
So you are trying to say that the 7 years refers to when Christ started His ministry to when Steven died.
That really does not match, for it clearly says this person in Daniel 9:27 will bring an end to the daily sacrifices. This did not happen at Jesus crucifixion as Jews continued to sacrifice animals because they did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. The sacrifices did not stop tell 70 A.D. which is well more then 7 years later, but yet this event in 70 A.D. does not match the 7 year period or the A.O.D. either for Titus did not go into the temple and claim to be God.
The 7 year period, A.O.D., man of sin, and 3 1/2 years of great tribulation all fall in the same time period. So you can not have one without the other.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
It is called looking at all the scriptures combined that deal with the end times, and placing them together as most bible prophecy scholars do, and then look at world events to see if that prophecy fits in that place or not.
Jesus ministered for 3 and a half years and was crucified.
Then what happened?
(also its not true to say the Israelites did not accept him, some did some did not)
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
The apostles went out to carry out His command to make us all disciples, and teaching us to obey all that He taught them. The original 11 were called to go to the other Jewish people, and Paul was commissioned to go to the gentile nations. But the talk of a future antichrist figure did not stop at the death of Stephen, nor did animal sacrifices stop in this time frame. They only stopped because the temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Titus, but Titus did not go into the temple and claim to be God. And no other ruler did that between Christ and 70 AD, and no ruler has done that since because there was no temple to go in and desecrate it. The temple has to be rebuilt, so that an antichrist figure can sit in it and desecrate it to fulfill this prophecy.
Plus Jesus did not make a covenant or treaty for 7 years then break it after 3 1/2 years. The covenant He ushered in still last to this day, and will continue tell He comes again.
L
Laodicea
Guest
Jesus did bring and end to the sacrifices, they pointed to Him. After His death the sacrifices had no more meaning. Look at what happened when Jesus died.
John 19:30 KJV
(30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Matthew 27:50-51 KJV
(50) Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(51) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
In both texts Jesus speaks just before He dies, so the loud voice is when Jesus says "It is finished". So what happened after Jesus said it is finished? He died and the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom showing the temple services finished. So Jesus did put an end to the sacrifices.
L
Laodicea
Guest
I see you offer no Bible texts? Doctrine is based on the Bible and the Bible interprets itself so since you teach Daniel 9:27 in the future then the Bible would have other texts on such an important event.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Antichrist is most frequently referred to as a specific man foretold to be history's last and most terrible dictator, who will rule the world just before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
The term Antichrist has 2 meanings, basically. One: that which is against Christ, and two: that which counterfeits and/or takes the place of Christ.
The word Antichrist is mentioned specifically only in the following scriptures of the Bible.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time" (1 John 2:18).
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22).
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" (1 John 4:3).
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7).
The future world leader who will be Antichrist is called by other names in Bible prophecy. He is called The little horn (Dan. 7: 8,) king of fierce countenance (Dan 8: 23,) the prince that shall come (Dan 9: 26,) the king (Dan 11: 36,) man of sin (2 Thes. 2: 3,) son of perdition (2 Thes 2: 3,) the beast (Rev. 13: 1-4, 12, 14-15, 17, chp. 19: 19-20, six hundred threescore and six (Rev. 13: 18,).
Prophecy writer/broadcaster, Daymond Duck writes the following about the one who is also called the lawless one.
Most scholars agree that John's usage of the word [Antichrist] implies two different meanings: 1) against the Christ, and 2) instead of the Christ. Both meanings fit the final fuhrer. The antichrist will be against the Christ; that is, he will be an enemy of the Christ, and he will try to replace the Christ; that is, he will be a false Christ.
Daniel revealed the final fuhrer's opposition to the Christ when he said the antichrist will "stand up against the Prince of princes" (Daniel 8:25). And Paul revealed the evil one's effort to replace the Christ when he said the antichrist will sit in the Temple as God "shewing himself that he is God" (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4). Many people have opposed Christ, but other than Satan, there has never been a more sinister or worthy opponent on the face of planet earth. Many false Christs have arisen and some have been noteworthy imposters, but there has never been a greater or more evil deceiver than this one.
We can better understand what the antichrist will be like when he appears by observing a few things about the first and second coming of Jesus. The official first coming of Jesus, commonly called His triumphal entry into Jerusalem, occurred while Jesus was riding upon a donkey, a symbol of peace (Luke 19:2838). The official second coming of Jesus, commonly called the Revelation, will take place at the end of the tribulation period when Jesus returns in righteousness to judge and make war riding upon a white horse, a symbol of conquest. (Revelation 19: 1121). The first time, Jesus came peacefully as the Lamb of God and the second time He will come conquering as the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS (John 1:36; Revelation 19:11-16).
This has relevance to what the antichrist will be like as he carries out his bloody career. During his rise to power, he will present himself as a man of peace. So we might expect the prophets to depict him riding upon a donkey, a symbol of peace, but that is wrong. John said, "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer" (Revelation 6:2).
The antichrist will ride across the pages of history on a white horse, a symbol of conquest. His sweet-sounding words of peace will not match his terrible acts of war. This fictitious christ will present himself as a lamb, but he will really be a wolf in sheep's clothing. When asked about the sign of His coming and the end of the age, Jesus answered, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4, 5). The list of people who have done this is long, but the ultimate false christ will be the antichrist. Multitudes will think they have met the Messiah, but he will really be the man of sin.
The bow was a weapon of war and a symbol of military power in John's day. The antichrist will' appear with a bow in his hand, but he will have no arrows. This is like carrying a gun without bullets. The antichrist will have weapons of war, but he will act like he is unarmed. Daniel said, "by peace shall [he] destroy many" (Daniel 8:25).
A crown is worn by people who earn or inherit the right to wear one, but the antichrist will not earn or inherit the right to wear his crown. It will be a gift from the wicked power brokers of the world. What a terrible mistake! The world's gullible politicians will empower a leader without doing the all-important background check. Some will think they are crowning a godly man, but they will be elevating a fake with a very dark side. The Bible says this fake will "ascend out of the bottomless pit" (Revelation 17:8). That is the gruesome subterranean abode where God is holding the very worst of Satan's demonic spirits. It makes one wonder what kind of background this man will have. Considering his origin, it must be filled with terrible atrocities.
L
Laodicea
Guest
kennethcadwell where did you get that quote? You should give the link. Could you make bigger font not the smallest font?
I believe this verse not happen yet.
because the end of this first is the second coming of Jesus, when the antichrist terminated.
Now the man of sin is not even show up. It will show up in the great tribulation.
Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
international standard
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
L
Laodicea
Guest
I will ask you the same question as another. What other Bible texts do you have to show Daniel 9:27 is future?
If this verse happen than:
1. the second coming happen. Because the end of this verse is desolation of the Antichrist and desolation of the Antichrist happen in the second coming.
2. no christian can buy or sale without taking the mark of the beast.
Jesus said This verse in the context of end time/future.
Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
K
Kerry
Guest
If this verse happen than:
1. the second coming happen. Because the end of this verse is desolation of the Antichrist and desolation of the Antichrist happen in the second coming.
2. no christian can buy or sale without taking the mark of the beast.
Jesus said This verse in the context of end time/future.
Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
It has not been fulfilled
Daniel 9:27 is not future, It simply can not be.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Notice that God gives them 490 years to do these things. then the next verse breaks down these 490 years
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troubles times.
so this 490 years starts at the decree to restore and rebuild. not one or the other but both. this was done by the combined decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes.
Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.
notice it was finished according to the command of all three not one. thus the time of the final one is the right time and the bible tells us when this was:
Ezr 7:7 And there went up some of the children of Israel, and of the priests, and the Levites, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, unto Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king.
in the 7th year of Artaxerxes this full command was given. to both rebuild but also restore autonomy to Israel and the worship of God.
This date is very solid in history as 457 BC leaving the middle of the last week square on the death of Jesus Christ who is the true sacrifice and thus put an end to sacrifices. Thus the early church did not sacrifice anymore. even though the Jews ceremoniously did. Thus the issues in colossians 2 and romans 14 where people were judging over feasts etc.
The point being that if you use the futurist view then you are taking away from the fact that God gave them a set time of 490 years which He clearly did give them. you can not separate the time.
By the way the futurist view is a Jesuit made view that was designed to destroy and trick protestants.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Notice that God gives them 490 years to do these things. then the next verse breaks down these 490 years
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troubles times.
so this 490 years starts at the decree to restore and rebuild. not one or the other but both. this was done by the combined decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes.
Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.
notice it was finished according to the command of all three not one. thus the time of the final one is the right time and the bible tells us when this was:
Ezr 7:7 And there went up some of the children of Israel, and of the priests, and the Levites, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, unto Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king.
in the 7th year of Artaxerxes this full command was given. to both rebuild but also restore autonomy to Israel and the worship of God.
This date is very solid in history as 457 BC leaving the middle of the last week square on the death of Jesus Christ who is the true sacrifice and thus put an end to sacrifices. Thus the early church did not sacrifice anymore. even though the Jews ceremoniously did. Thus the issues in colossians 2 and romans 14 where people were judging over feasts etc.
The point being that if you use the futurist view then you are taking away from the fact that God gave them a set time of 490 years which He clearly did give them. you can not separate the time.
By the way the futurist view is a Jesuit made view that was designed to destroy and trick protestants.
Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
international standard
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
Seem to me, Daniel 9:27 talking about what happen till the end/second coming of Christ.
And second coming is not happen yet.
L
Laodicea
Guest
If this verse happen than:
1. the second coming happen. Because the end of this verse is desolation of the Antichrist and desolation of the Antichrist happen in the second coming.
2. no christian can buy or sale without taking the mark of the beast.
Jesus said This verse in the context of end time/future.
Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Abomination is refering to idol worship
1 Kings 11:5-7 KJV
(5) For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
(6) And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
(7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
Now look at another verse also speaking of the abomination of desolation
Matthew 24:15-16 KJV
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Luke 21:20-21 KJV
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
So we need to put all this together to find out what Matthew 24:15 is saying. It has been fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. At the destruction of Jerusalem not one christian lost their life, why? Because they heeded Christ's instruction in this verse.