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K
I don't deny the scriptures that Atwood gave, as I have said before and I have posted those same scriptures myself.
The point I am trying to make is what the bible says, for it says you can not live on bread alone but by every word of God.
Lord Jesus said those who believe in Him will have eternal life.
This is true, but then you have to dig into the meat of the word and not just the milk. By doing that you will see what the Lord Jesus says that one who believes in Him will do and look like. Separating the scriptures that show Jesus telling us how we are to be as a believer in Him, from the gospel message takes away from message on love.
Lord Jesus says you can not love Him, if you disobey Him and do not love others........Their is no salvation if either of those is not part of your life.
That is not the meaning of "imminent."
According to you, "imminent" means over 2,000 years.
The context of vv. 1-4 is v.1, above.
The NT authoritatively teaches in many Scriptures, separate from any unfulfilled prophetic riddles
subject to more than one personal and non-authoritative interpretation,
that the rapture occurs at the end of time and the final judgment (presented here),
which is the Day of the Lord and all that it involves,
and will not occur before the great apostasy (rebellion, falling away) and the man of lawlessness is revealed (2Th 2:1-4).
Please address those Scriptures presented in the link, where the NT authoritatively teaches the time of the rapture.
According to you, "imminent" means over 2,000 years.
The context of vv. 1-4 is v.1, above.
The NT authoritatively teaches in many Scriptures, separate from any unfulfilled prophetic riddles
subject to more than one personal and non-authoritative interpretation,
that the rapture occurs at the end of time and the final judgment (presented here),
which is the Day of the Lord and all that it involves,
and will not occur before the great apostasy (rebellion, falling away) and the man of lawlessness is revealed (2Th 2:1-4).
Please address those Scriptures presented in the link, where the NT authoritatively teaches the time of the rapture.
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You can call it a laundry list if you will, but these scriptures can indeed clean your dirty clothes & wash the hard heart, if you don't harden yourself further against this avalanche of evidence.
Over & over -- too much scripture even for one CC post -- offers you the free gift of salvation if only you will believe in, trust in the Savior to do the saving.
Here? You are at a site whose doctrinal statement agrees with what I post on salvation by faith. You are here spreading confusion and denying the gospel.
Why do you beat that dead horse, attack that straw man? Whoever disagreed with you here that the believer does the word? The problem is not that works result from salvation (obtained by faith). The problem is that you put the works before the salvation, and deny the obvious that people in this life are already saved if they believe in the Son of God.
Time for a bath; wash those brains in God's Word.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[All them who believe, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]
For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Over & over -- too much scripture even for one CC post -- offers you the free gift of salvation if only you will believe in, trust in the Savior to do the saving.
Here? You are at a site whose doctrinal statement agrees with what I post on salvation by faith. You are here spreading confusion and denying the gospel.
Why do you beat that dead horse, attack that straw man? Whoever disagreed with you here that the believer does the word? The problem is not that works result from salvation (obtained by faith). The problem is that you put the works before the salvation, and deny the obvious that people in this life are already saved if they believe in the Son of God.
Time for a bath; wash those brains in God's Word.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[All them who believe, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]
For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
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AMEN and so true........the dead horse of works and water has been stripped of rotten flesh and the flies and maggots have picked it clean for sure......MANY WILL COME before the Lord bragging on their right to enter the Kingdom based upon their works...and more than likely many who post and boast of there working, watered down salvation on this site.....
You can call it a laundry list if you will, but these scriptures can indeed clean your dirty clothes & wash the hard heart, if you don't harden yourself further against this avalanche of evidence.
Over & over -- too much scripture even for one CC post -- offers you the free gift of salvation if only you will believe in, trust in the Savior to do the saving.
Here? You are at a site whose doctrinal statement agrees with what I post on salvation by faith. You are here spreading confusion and denying the gospel.
Why do you beat that dead horse, attack that straw man? Whoever disagreed with you here that the believer does the word? The problem is not that works result from salvation (obtained by faith). The problem is that you put the works before the salvation, and deny the obvious that people in this life are already saved if they believe in the Son of God.
Time for a bath; wash those brains in God's Word.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[All them who believe, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]
For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Over & over -- too much scripture even for one CC post -- offers you the free gift of salvation if only you will believe in, trust in the Savior to do the saving.
Here? You are at a site whose doctrinal statement agrees with what I post on salvation by faith. You are here spreading confusion and denying the gospel.
Why do you beat that dead horse, attack that straw man? Whoever disagreed with you here that the believer does the word? The problem is not that works result from salvation (obtained by faith). The problem is that you put the works before the salvation, and deny the obvious that people in this life are already saved if they believe in the Son of God.
Time for a bath; wash those brains in God's Word.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[All them who believe, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]
For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
B
The word 'imminent' has no time associated with it. It is associated with an expectation that can happen at any time. People on the west coast know that a great earthquake is 'imminent', but there is no time associated with that event. People have an expectation it could happen today, in their life time or perhaps in a hundred years. The believers under Paul's teaching had an expectation the Lord was coming soon, perhaps in their life time. Being 2,000 years later does not change that expectation of an 'imminent' return.
Whether we apply the rapture or the second coming to that term, the Lord has told us through the Spirit that 'I come quickly' (Rev 22:7,12,20). The word 'quickly' means 'swift, speedily and without delay'. This does not only refer to how he comes but also as to the expectation that the Spirit and the bride has of his coming (Rev 22:17). If the believers in the early church did not have an expectation of his coming then they would have no occasion to look for the mercy of the Lord as stated in (Jude 21). Look at the context of the entire chapter and determine for yourself as to what believers are encouraged to do and as to what that end might be in their own life time.
One more thing, and it certainly has to apply to the believers who were present at the time of this writing...
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Whether we apply the rapture or the second coming to that term, the Lord has told us through the Spirit that 'I come quickly' (Rev 22:7,12,20). The word 'quickly' means 'swift, speedily and without delay'. This does not only refer to how he comes but also as to the expectation that the Spirit and the bride has of his coming (Rev 22:17). If the believers in the early church did not have an expectation of his coming then they would have no occasion to look for the mercy of the Lord as stated in (Jude 21). Look at the context of the entire chapter and determine for yourself as to what believers are encouraged to do and as to what that end might be in their own life time.
One more thing, and it certainly has to apply to the believers who were present at the time of this writing...
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Of course the verses you quoted from 1 Thes 4 have nothing to do with the return of Christ, but rather, the return of God the Father as He is specifically named as the one returning in verse 14. I noticed you decided to omit this verse so I will include it here.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
So God will bring those who sleep in Jesus. We see in verse 15 that those still alive on the final day of earth will not prevent or precede those who are asleep. Thus Jesus will resurrect all the dead believers to meet God in the air as He tells us 4 different places in the Book of John including here in Chapter 6.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Since 1 Thes 4 does not discuss the return of Christ but rather the return of God the Father, it cannot be discussing a Pre-Trib Rapture but rather an end of the world Rapture which is consistent with multiple passages in the Bible.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
So God will bring those who sleep in Jesus. We see in verse 15 that those still alive on the final day of earth will not prevent or precede those who are asleep. Thus Jesus will resurrect all the dead believers to meet God in the air as He tells us 4 different places in the Book of John including here in Chapter 6.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Since 1 Thes 4 does not discuss the return of Christ but rather the return of God the Father, it cannot be discussing a Pre-Trib Rapture but rather an end of the world Rapture which is consistent with multiple passages in the Bible.
C
Do be certain to tell Jesus / GOD all of this that's now in BOLD, the next time you talk to HIM !
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL Power is given unto He in Heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in The Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL Power is given unto He in Heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in The Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen
Corrrect.
And the rapture cannot happen at any time, if that means now,
because the apostasy (rebellion, falling away) and the revealing of the man of lawlessness must come first (2Th 2:1, 3).
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him. . .that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed." (2Th 2:1, 3)
The man of lawlessness will rise out of the great rebellion (apostasy) and intensify it (vv. 9-10).
However, since the rapture cannot happen at any time, if that means now, the rapture is not imminent.
NB: That NT authoritative teaching locates the rapture at the end of time and the final judgment
is shown here.
And the rapture cannot happen at any time, if that means now,
because the apostasy (rebellion, falling away) and the revealing of the man of lawlessness must come first (2Th 2:1, 3).
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him. . .that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed." (2Th 2:1, 3)
The man of lawlessness will rise out of the great rebellion (apostasy) and intensify it (vv. 9-10).
However, since the rapture cannot happen at any time, if that means now, the rapture is not imminent.
NB: That NT authoritative teaching locates the rapture at the end of time and the final judgment
is shown here.
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C
All the evidence you will ever need to trash the false pre-trib rapture
I give up with this crowd, as this thread was about the rapture, but here they come again.
They're heeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrre!
Can't seem to escape this nonsense and it's certainly putting a real damper on anyone who tries to start ANOTHER TOPIC thread, more times than can be numbered now.
Time for some folks to get over it already and take that topic to That Particular Topic's thread so we can get back to discussing the OP. [No, but that would be called, "Being considerate and polite to each other" ~ asking far too much.]
Well, could we beg for a New Year's resolution and put that one up for a vote? Amen!
I give up with this crowd, as this thread was about the rapture, but here they come again.
They're heeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrre!
Can't seem to escape this nonsense and it's certainly putting a real damper on anyone who tries to start ANOTHER TOPIC thread, more times than can be numbered now.
Time for some folks to get over it already and take that topic to That Particular Topic's thread so we can get back to discussing the OP. [No, but that would be called, "Being considerate and polite to each other" ~ asking far too much.]
Well, could we beg for a New Year's resolution and put that one up for a vote? Amen!
B
Why is it that none of you have seen fit to deal with the following...
Whether we apply the rapture or the second coming to that term 'imminent', the Lord has told us through the Spirit that 'I come quickly' (Rev 22:7,12,20). The word 'quickly' means 'swift, speedily and without delay'. This does not only refer to how he comes but also as to the expectation that the Spirit and the bride has of his coming (Rev 22:17). If the believers in the early church did not have an expectation of his coming then they would have no occasion to look for the mercy of the Lord as stated in (Jude 21). Look at the context of the entire chapter and determine for yourself as to what believers are encouraged to do and as to what that end might be in their own life time.
Whether we apply the rapture or the second coming to that term 'imminent', the Lord has told us through the Spirit that 'I come quickly' (Rev 22:7,12,20). The word 'quickly' means 'swift, speedily and without delay'. This does not only refer to how he comes but also as to the expectation that the Spirit and the bride has of his coming (Rev 22:17). If the believers in the early church did not have an expectation of his coming then they would have no occasion to look for the mercy of the Lord as stated in (Jude 21). Look at the context of the entire chapter and determine for yourself as to what believers are encouraged to do and as to what that end might be in their own life time.
P
Why is it that none of you have seen fit to deal with the following...
Whether we apply the rapture or the second coming to that term 'imminent', the Lord has told us through the Spirit that 'I come quickly' (Rev 22:7,12,20). The word 'quickly' means 'swift, speedily and without delay'. This does not only refer to how he comes but also as to the expectation that the Spirit and the bride has of his coming (Rev 22:17). If the believers in the early church did not have an expectation of his coming then they would have no occasion to look for the mercy of the Lord as stated in (Jude 21). Look at the context of the entire chapter and determine for yourself as to what believers are encouraged to do and as to what that end might be in their own life time.
And the parables about watching for the return of the master always commended the watchers that took "imminant" as "now" (were commended)
Your point is????
Did God the Father also die on the cross???
There are two returns, one by the Son, one by the Father.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
Do you see any distinction in the above? How about in the below??
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
It looks like there are two separate entities, the Father and Son, who are both part of the Trinity yet each doing different things. We are given a distinction between Father and Son for a reason. But we are told that they will become "all in all."
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
We see that the Father and Son are together now and it appears they separate for a 1,000 year millennial reign if you believe in such things, then rule together again at the end.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.
So, which comes first, God the Father or Jesus the Son or, do they come together??? I cannot find a passage that has them coming together but there are passages which discuss each coming separately. The second to last verse in the Bible again makes a clear distinction.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
If both the Father and Son are coming here, why name only the Son???
Did God the Father also die on the cross???
There are two returns, one by the Son, one by the Father.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
Do you see any distinction in the above? How about in the below??
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
It looks like there are two separate entities, the Father and Son, who are both part of the Trinity yet each doing different things. We are given a distinction between Father and Son for a reason. But we are told that they will become "all in all."
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
We see that the Father and Son are together now and it appears they separate for a 1,000 year millennial reign if you believe in such things, then rule together again at the end.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.
So, which comes first, God the Father or Jesus the Son or, do they come together??? I cannot find a passage that has them coming together but there are passages which discuss each coming separately. The second to last verse in the Bible again makes a clear distinction.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
If both the Father and Son are coming here, why name only the Son???