THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Hizikyah]

Hiz...do you understand the Talmud is about as evil as any book in this world? google "evil Talmud" and read up on things Hiz....get away from all this judizer stuff and come be one of us Blood bought Christians...

So im here exposing the evil of the Talmud, and you are supposing that I am standing by it.... maybe you should look at this:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/72285-key-unlock-some-yahshuas-words.html

Quote from post #1

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

I stand strongly against this evil book, however if one does a little study you will understand Yahshua's words in these encounters

I even exposed it's evil in the POST YOU QUOTED.

Why is that translation "silly"

Because it does not follow the command of the pharisees and replace YHWH with "LORD"

Talmud - Mas. Sotah 38a
"Another [Baraitha] taught: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — with the use of the Shem Hameforash.15 You say that it means with the Tetragrammaton; (Yahweh) but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used!

The Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume 7 page 680
The personal name... written in the Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH and is referred to as the "Tetragrammaton." At least until the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. this name was regularly pronounced with its proper vowels, as is clear from the Lachish Letters, written shortly before that date. But at least by the third century B.C.E. the pronunciation of the name YHWH was avoided and Adonai,"the Lord,"was substituted for it.

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

Psalm 22:22, "I will declare Your Name to My brothers! In the midst of the congregation I will give You praise!"

"You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people."

 

[haz]

It is clear you have no understanding whatsoever....of what believe on him means..... it means to do what he says....you say you believe and do just the opposite of what he says...

And what are the commandments of Jesus that we Christians keep?
1John 3:22,23
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another,

That's it.

Luke 9:35
And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

This here shows nothing about spirit clothes and spirit food....it is about real clothes and real food...

The Bible is like the parables. Thus in parables the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven is revealed to Christians.
Matt 13:10-13
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Scripture is spiritually discerned.
1Cor 2:13,14
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you cannot see the spiritual message in James about spiritual nakedness and spiritual hunger then maybe you're making the same mistake as Nicodemus who thought born-again meant to re-enter into his mother's womb.

[SUP]
31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36[/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matt 25:31-46 you quote above is also spiritual.

Who are the hungry and thirsty?
It's the lost, the spiritually hungry and thirsty who lack Christ, our spiritual food and drink.
1Cor 10:3,4
all ate the same spiritual food,4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ

And who is the stranger?
It's the lost, who are spiritual strangers from the covenants of promise and aliens from the commonwealth of Israel.
Eph 2:12
that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Eph 2:19
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

Who are the naked?
It's the lost, who are spiritually naked lacking the robes of righteousness and the garment of salvation.
Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

Who are the sick?
It's the lost, who are spiritually sick.
Isa 1:5,6
Why should you be stricken again?
You will revolt more and more.
The whole head is sick,
And the whole heart faints.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
There is no soundness in it,

Who are those in prison?
It's the lost, those in spiritual prison.
Isa 61:1
“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

Christians (the sheep) let their light (Christ in us) shine (Matt 5:16) in that we preach the gospel to believe on Jesus, to the spiritually hungry, thirsty, naked, strangers sick and in prison.

But the goats do not preach the gospel. They instead preach works of the law or else a mix of works of the law, with grace. We cannot mix works of the law, with grace.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

 

[haz]

it means ....we do not make the law void(empty or meaningless)....Christ did not remove the law....he removes those who believe in him from the law...The law still condemns those who are not in Christ...there is no middle ground....it is either you are in Christ or not....

True.
As Christians we agree that the law is just, good and holy, Rom 7:12.
We also saw that we were rightly judged as sinners under the law, deserving of the death penalty.
We acknowledged we needed a savior.
We submitted to God's righteousness and sought His mercy.
We believe on Jesus.

 

[Hoffco]

Grace has always taught us to deny ourselves and live for God in Good works of the laws and principles of the New Cov.. Love to all. Hoffco

 

[haz]

The Law was not made for those who are in Christ. They are clothed in Christ's righteousness and have no need of the Law. To go to the Law while married to Christ is to commit spiritual adultery. Would you live in the house of another who is not your physical spouse? Why live in the house of the Law when you are married to the One who was raised from the dead?

Amen!

1Cor 6:15-18
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!
Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Flee (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24). Every sin that a man does is outside the body (of Christ they abide in), but he who commits (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar) sins against his own body (Christ).

1Thess 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification (which we have when we believe on Jesus, Heb 10:10): that you should abstain from (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).

Gal 4:21-24
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar

 

[newbirth]

And what are the commandments of Jesus that we Christians keep?
1John 3:22,23
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another,

That's it.

if the words of Christ himself cannot convince you neither can I...
John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

If you cannot see the spiritual message in James about spiritual nakedness and spiritual hunger then maybe you're making the same mistake as Nicodemus who thought born-again meant to re-enter into his mother's womb.

bro where does it say spiritual nakedness and hunger...you are trying to fill a naked hungry person with prayers....he cannot hear you the pangs of hunger and shame of nakedness are louder than your words...
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

 

[newbirth]

LOl ..so what does bring us to Christ mean? And only in light of our sin do we understand our need for a Savior.


Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

bring us to Christ... means the law was only effective for righteousness until Christ Came...
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[newbirth]

True.
As Christians we agree that the law is just, good and holy, Rom 7:12.
We also saw that we were rightly judged as sinners under the law, deserving of the death penalty.
We acknowledged we needed a savior.
We submitted to God's righteousness and sought His mercy.
We believe on Jesus.

and if we continue in his words we are his disciples....what is the point of believing and not continuing in his word???

And what are the commandments of Jesus that we Christians keep?
1John 3:22,23
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another,

That's it.

 

[Mitspa]

So im here exposing the evil of the Talmud, and you are supposing that I am standing by it.... maybe you should look at this:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/72285-key-unlock-some-yahshuas-words.html

Quote from post #1



I even exposed it's evil in the POST YOU QUOTED.




"You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people."

OH ...Im sorry hiz....I have to admit after I see people who ignore the New Testament, I have a tendency to ignore most of there post... but glad you have not went so far as to take up that book.

 

[Mitspa]

bring us to Christ... means the law was only effective for righteousness until Christ Came...
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

That don't even make sense...I cant believe you would even continue trying to make this argument ...When the scripture clearly teach the purpose of the law is to make the whole world guilty before God... and see there need for Savior ..


Ro 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[kennethcadwell]

OH ...Im sorry hiz....I have to admit after I see people who ignore the New Testament, I have a tendency to ignore most of there post... but glad you have not went so far as to take up that book.

Come on now Mitspa you are my brother in Christ, but now you are claiming to not listen to people who you say ignore the NT. However I seen you debate with me and others on ignoring and canceling out half of what our Lord Jesus said, so to make a statement like that you ignore those who ignore the NT. Then you need to go back and pay more attention to what you have been saying. For the four gospel books Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John consist of our Lord Jesus teachings on how we as believers in Him are to walk, and the things that believers in Him will do.
His 3 1/2 years of His earthly ministry was not done away with at the cross, as He came teaching how we are to be under the new covenant. And He makes this clear in the great commission that He gave.


Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


We are told to obey (observe) everything He commanded, and the two great commandments He gave to love Him, and love your neighbor are not the only two commands He gave. He just emphasized these two because by following these two you will keep and follow the rest out of love for Him.


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And we know that the will of God is contained within all that the Lord gave us in His teachings, because two follow the greatest two commands given you would show that love in return to Him by obeying His commands to repent of sins, confess them, be baptized, forgiveness to others, and so on...............
One can not say they are truly His saved sheep and show no love to Him by disobeying what He said, or canceling them out as if they do not apply to us.
It is amazing how I see those who claim to be in Christ yet cancel out His 3 1/2 earthly ministry where He gave us the standards as how a believer in Him should act, do, and look like. That Paul, Peter, James, and John confirmed in their epistles, and did not change anything He said.

 

[newbirth]

That don't even make sense...I cant believe you would even continue trying to make this argument ...When the scripture clearly teach the purpose of the law is to make the whole world guilty before God... and see there need for Savior ..


Ro 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

if you cannot understand what I write then you have no sense....my comment explains the verse...you say it makes no sense...then remove my comment and read the verse...the law no longer represent righteousness before God...does not mean the law is not righteous...
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

now go argue with Paul....you already threw out John's gospel..... what is keeping you from discarding Paul's writings...

the law does not make you guilty...the law tells you that you are guilty......did the law make you commit sin? (no)the law identifies sin...does the law tell you to commit sin???(no)the law says don't sin....that is why if a man is in Christ and he sins...whether in ignorance or wilfully the law is there to identify his sin.......

 

[Mitspa]

Come on now Mitspa you are my brother in Christ, but now you are claiming to not listen to people who you say ignore the NT. However I seen you debate with me and others on ignoring and canceling out half of what our Lord Jesus said, so to make a statement like that you ignore those who ignore the NT. Then you need to go back and pay more attention to what you have been saying. For the four gospel books Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John consist of our Lord Jesus teachings on how we as believers in Him are to walk, and the things that believers in Him will do.
His 3 1/2 years of His earthly ministry was not done away with at the cross, as He came teaching how we are to be under the new covenant. And He makes this clear in the great commission that He gave.


Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


We are told to obey (observe) everything He commanded, and the two great commandments He gave to love Him, and love your neighbor are not the only two commands He gave. He just emphasized these two because by following these two you will keep and follow the rest out of love for Him.


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And we know that the will of God is contained within all that the Lord gave us in His teachings, because two follow the greatest two commands given you would show that love in return to Him by obeying His commands to repent of sins, confess them, be baptized, forgiveness to others, and so on...............
One can not say they are truly His saved sheep and show no love to Him by disobeying what He said, or canceling them out as if they do not apply to us.
It is amazing how I see those who claim to be in Christ yet cancel out His 3 1/2 earthly ministry where He gave us the standards as how a believer in Him should act, do, and look like. That Paul, Peter, James, and John confirmed in their epistles, and did not change anything He said.

No Kenneth I see a certain honesty in you and some others who cannot make all the precepts of the bible come to a place of agreement in the truth.... You guys sometimes post the same scriptures that have been plainly explained to you in the light of the righteousness of faith and the purpose of the law.... Like when the Lord upholds and magnifies the law to its true unbending standard...It is absolute and clear that the Lord fulfilled it all ..or none of it! that a person is under ALL THE LAW or they are guilty of breaking it all...until that place of truth is reached there is little use in trying to debate further with someone who will not accept the evident truth.

 

[Mitspa]

if you cannot understand what I write then you have no sense....my comment explains the verse...you say it makes no sense...then remove my comment and read the verse...the law no longer represent righteousness before God...does not mean the law is not righteous...
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

now go argue with Paul....you already threw out John's gospel..... what is keeping you from discarding Paul's writings...

the law does not make you guilty...the law tells you that you are guilty......did the law make you commit sin? (no)the law identifies sin...does the law tell you to commit sin???(no)the law says don't sin....that is why if a man is in Christ and he sins...whether in ignorance or wilfully the law is there to identify his sin.......

lol your so funny... and you just throw one thing after another in the discussion to see if you can gets something to stick ... well your last point is so unbiblical I am a little ashamed to address it any further and give it any place at all in this discussion. Now the purpose of the law is written in clear and evident words... If you cant accept them...I cant help you


Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them

 

[newbirth]

lol your so funny... and you just throw one thing after another in the discussion to see if you can gets something to stick ... well your last point is so unbiblical I am a little ashamed to address it any further and give it any place at all in this discussion. Now the purpose of the law is written in clear and evident words... If you cant accept them...I cant help you


Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them

you have not refuted what I wrote.....you claim my point in unbiblical ...I challenge you to show the point and the scripture that proves it unbiblical...else be a liar and deceiver...

if you cannot understand what I write then you have no sense....my comment explains the verse...you say it makes no sense...then remove my comment and read the verse...the law no longer represent righteousness before God...does not mean the law is not righteous...
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

now go argue with Paul....you already threw out John's gospel..... what is keeping you from discarding Paul's writings...

the law does not make you guilty...the law tells you that you are guilty......did the law make you commit sin? (no)the law identifies sin...does the law tell you to commit sin???(no)the law says don't sin....that is why if a man is in Christ and he sins...whether in ignorance or wilfully the law is there to identify his sin.......

 

[Mitspa]

you have not refuted what I wrote.....you claim my point in unbiblical ...I challenge you to show the point and the scripture that proves it unbiblical...else be a liar and deceiver...

if you cannot understand what I write then you have no sense....my comment explains the verse...you say it makes no sense...then remove my comment and read the verse...the law no longer represent righteousness before God...does not mean the law is not righteous...
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

now go argue with Paul....you already threw out John's gospel..... what is keeping you from discarding Paul's writings...

the law does not make you guilty...the law tells you that you are guilty......did the law make you commit sin? (no)the law identifies sin...does the law tell you to commit sin???(no)the law says don't sin....that is why if a man is in Christ and he sins...whether in ignorance or wilfully the law is there to identify his sin.......

First you have made no point and the scriptures clearly refute your point and show your error...if you choose to ignore them...I cannot help you.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No Kenneth I see a certain honesty in you and some others who cannot make all the precepts of the bible come to a place of agreement in the truth.... You guys sometimes post the same scriptures that have been plainly explained to you in the light of the righteousness of faith and the purpose of the law.... Like when the Lord upholds and magnifies the law to its true unbending standard...It is absolute and clear that the Lord fulfilled it all ..or none of it! that a person is under ALL THE LAW or they are guilty of breaking it all...until that place of truth is reached there is little use in trying to debate further with someone who will not accept the evident truth.

Well let me pose it to you like this then.
If the Lord fulfilled the whole law at the cross, then why did He tell us that by loving Him with all our heart, soul, and mind, and love our neighbors as ourselves; By following these two commands all the law and prophets are fulfilled. He did not do away with or fulfill them at the cross, He left us with the two greatest commands to follow to fulfill the law and the prophets.
What was done away with at the cross was the need for a sacrifice for sin, because He became that perfect sacrifice, and the punishment for breaking the laws for breaking the laws as He took the punishment for us. We are no longer held to the written ordinances of the law that say if you do this, then you are put to death, stoned, and so on....
Now if as a believer you continue to disobey God's moral laws there no longer remains a sacrifice for you, but spiritual death awaiting at judgment.

Hebrews 10:26-27

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

His sacrifice is made of no affect to those who continue or return to keep on sinning willfully (deliberately), and they will face judgment instead and the lake of fire. They will not receive salvation, because even though they profess to know God, in their works they deny Him. ( Titus 1:16 )

2 Peter 2:20-22


For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome,

( The defilements of the word is our sins, we are defiled by our sins. )

the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

( It would be better if they had not know and walked the way of God previously, and then turned away from Him do to willful sins. Now their punishment will be worse, then if they never knew the way. Look at Luke 12 for example. )

What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


The dog returned to his vomit, or in other words loved the sins of the world more then God, so they went back to those sins they did not want to give up.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

 

[haz]

Well let me pose it to you like this then.
If the Lord fulfilled the whole law at the cross, then why did He tell us that by loving Him with all our heart, soul, and mind, and love our neighbors as ourselves; By following these two commands all the law and prophets are fulfilled. He did not do away with or fulfill them at the cross, He left us with the two greatest commands to follow to fulfill the law and the prophets.
What was done away with at the cross was the need for a sacrifice for sin, because He became that perfect sacrifice, and the punishment for breaking the laws for breaking the laws as He took the punishment for us. We are no longer held to the written ordinances of the law that say if you do this, then you are put to death, stoned, and so on....
Now if as a believer you continue to disobey God's moral laws there no longer remains a sacrifice for you, but spiritual death awaiting at judgment.

Hebrews 10:26-27

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

His sacrifice is made of no affect to those who continue or return to keep on sinning willfully (deliberately), and they will face judgment instead and the lake of fire. They will not receive salvation, because even though they profess to know God, in their works they deny Him. ( Titus 1:16 )

how does one sin willfully?
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor.(Sinner).

Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Thus we see the willful sinners are they who reject God's grace by turning back to the law for righteousness. It is those who put themselves under the law who are the sinners as whatever the law says it says to them.

Christians, however, cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law as we're not under its jurisdiction anyway (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay ANY THING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Thus we see that Heb 10:26 does not apply to Christians as we have the knowledge of the truth. We believe on Jesus.[/FONT]

2 Peter 2:20-22


For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome,

( The defilements of the word is our sins, we are defiled by our sins. )

the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

( It would be better if they had not know and walked the way of God previously, and then turned away from Him do to willful sins. Now their punishment will be worse, then if they never knew the way. Look at Luke 12 for example. )

What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


The dog returned to his vomit, or in other words loved the sins of the world more then God, so they went back to those sins they did not want to give up.

Again this refers to those who reject God's grace by turning back to the law for righteousness (which is unbelief). Such are like the dog returning to its vomit, as such people turn away from righteousness in Christ and return instead to their own filthy rag righteousness by works of the law.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:22And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did the will of God.

What is God's will?
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Hizikyah]

Thus we see that Heb 10:26 does not apply to Christians as we have the knowledge of the truth. We believe on Jesus.

Wait.. I don't mean to jump into your conversation but Hebrew 10 :26 says IN THE VERSE it is for those that know the truth.....

Hebrews 10:26-31, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father."


When I read this, I think; Using the Messiah dead body as a doormat for sin is beyond error, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father".

 

[kennethcadwell]

how does one sin willfully?
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor.(Sinner).

Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Thus we see the willful sinners are they who reject God's grace by turning back to the law for righteousness. It is those who put themselves under the law who are the sinners as whatever the law says it says to them.

Christians, however, cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law as we're not under its jurisdiction anyway (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay ANY THING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

Thus we see that Heb 10:26 does not apply to Christians as we have the knowledge of the truth. We believe on Jesus.






Again this refers to those who reject God's grace by turning back to the law for righteousness (which is unbelief). Such are like the dog returning to its vomit, as such people turn away from righteousness in Christ and return instead to their own filthy rag righteousness by works of the law.



The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did the will of God.

What is God's will?
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The thief on the cross was not under the new covenant, but he still repented of what he did by saying that he was deserving of his crucifixion. And then asked the Lord to forgive him by saying remember me when you go into your kingdom. So in his own way he repented and asked forgiveness for what he had done.

Once again though this is not to be used as an excuse for those who have time to do all that the Lord said to do, to up and not do them. Paul makes this evident in Galatians and in Romans when he says;

Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Romans 6:15-16
What then ? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace ? Certainly Not !
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


You can not say you are a follower of the Lord, if you watched porn for instance and say you repented of it, but then continued or returned to watching it on a every day basis without confessing forgiveness of it and/or turning away from it for good. Your actions have to show that the repentance was true, which means the continuance of trying to remove all sin from your life with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Confessing your sins when you do slip up.