Make him wait! Make him work! Make him sweat!

[Yahshua]

I have a question; is it going too fast if after I get to know a person a little, I plainly say, "I want a relationship, and I hope that it ends up being a marriage"? I mean, is it so bad to tell the truth?

Idk, that probably depends on the woman you'd ask and how she feels about you. Assuming you don't know each other it can come off as a bit fast.

Also, if two people obviously want to be married, why do they have to be "just friends" first? Yeah, I understand there's nothing serious in the beginning (Now if that's what you call "just friends" first, OK), but can't both parties be honest about what they want? I'd rather not play emotional poker with someone, having to guess at what cards she's holding. I'd rather come to an emotional agreement with someone, where we are both on the same page.

I don't see anything wrong with honestly, and I don't think it's important to be friends "first" as it is important to be friends "period" (and probably easiest to achieve first, before romantic feelings are involved that can cloud both people's vision). But try to look at friendship as the most serious part of any successful long-term relationship.

I believe friendship is the pathway to true love as Christ said, "there's no greater love than for one to lay down his life for a friend" (John 15:13). It is also written that a "husband must love his wife as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it" (Ephesians 5:25). So if we tie these two truths together, seeing that Christ gave himself for the Church, then that means the Church - Christ's bride - is his friend...and so likewise the wife is (supposed to be) her husband's friend, and he hers. So it's friendship that's at the root of the strongest love there is.

It's inevitable for emotions to ebb and flow throughout the course of a relationship, but if the foundation of your marriage relationship is friendship it can stand against those waves. However if the foundation of your marriage relationship is emotion, what happens when you no longer feel that way?

 

[agirlandherguitar]

I feel like if you both want to be friends before you jump into a relationship it's best not to rock the boat by either being too clingy (calling, texting, wanting to hang out all the time, affectionate with words and physical touch etc), but also not keeping your options open, ie dating other people at the same time.

It's an awkward conversation to have, but "friend dating" should be honest on both sides. Don't tell somebody you just want to be friends but still text them everyday and be flirty with them. It's not the easiest thing to balance, that thing between friendship and relationship. You can't always anticipate how you'll feel day by day when you hang in limbo. That's why you both really, really, really have to know what's going on so you can move forward. Be mature. Be sober minded. And make a freaking decision sooner than later! Don't drag this weird place out longer than necessary or somebody's gonna get hurt.

 

[IBDesmond]

I have a question; is it going too fast if after I get to know a person a little, I plainly say, "I want a relationship, and I hope that it ends up being a marriage"? I mean, is it so bad to tell the truth?

Also, if two people obviously want to be married, why do they have to be "just friends" first? Yeah, I understand there's nothing serious in the beginning (Now if that's what you call "just friends" first, OK), but can't both parties be honest about what they want? I'd rather not play emotional poker with someone, having to guess at what cards she's holding. I'd rather come to an emotional agreement with someone, where we are both on the same page.

Honesty is the best policy. I have always believed that even before hearing that phrase.
However, what I'm beginning to experience is something I call "Being TOO honest". Some would say, "How can you be too honest?" Okay, here is an extreme example of BTH: You're at a meal, and you excuse yourself to go to the toilet. You come back and say "Wow that wasn't a refreshing as I'd hope. It came out 60% liquid and I'm not sure I wiped all it's remains off". There's some things that people don't need to know. Now, that information might be partially useful to your dietician or your doctor or whatever but not to your friend at a meal.

What I'm trying to say it, it's good that two people can want marriage and it's that two people can only date for serious reasons but don't commit to someone you really know. Just because you're dating someone with the hopes of one day marrying them, doesn't mean you should make that commitment in the start. There still needs to be a level of "let's take it easy" even in a serious relationship.
In all honesty, the second half of your question doesn't really make sense. I mean, it sounds like essentially you're saying you would marry a stranger. How can you know if you want to marry someone if you don't know them?

 

[ArtsieSteph]

I have a question; is it going too fast if after I get to know a person a little, I plainly say, "I want a relationship, and I hope that it ends up being a marriage"? I mean, is it so bad to tell the truth?

Also, if two people obviously want to be married, why do they have to be "just friends" first? Yeah, I understand there's nothing serious in the beginning (Now if that's what you call "just friends" first, OK), but can't both parties be honest about what they want? I'd rather not play emotional poker with someone, having to guess at what cards she's holding. I'd rather come to an emotional agreement with someone, where we are both on the same page.

This is coming from a person who tries to be friends first before a relationship really develops: I totally understand your wanting to be honest about dating for marriage. Especially if someone asks for your number in specific hopes of being romanticle.
Personally I like to be friends first just so there's a stronger foundation for the relationship.

 

[Lynx]

For some reason a poem sprang to my mind, fully formed, while I was taking out the trash.

Make him wait! Make him work! Make him sweat!
Pretty soon he will start to regret
The day his eyes on you ever set
When he compares the effort spent to what he'll get

 

[tourist]

I have a question; is it going too fast if after I get to know a person a little, I plainly say, "I want a relationship, and I hope that it ends up being a marriage"? I mean, is it so bad to tell the truth?

Also, if two people obviously want to be married, why do they have to be "just friends" first? Yeah, I understand there's nothing serious in the beginning (Now if that's what you call "just friends" first, OK), but can't both parties be honest about what they want? I'd rather not play emotional poker with someone, having to guess at what cards she's holding. I'd rather come to an emotional agreement with someone, where we are both on the same page.

That is the way that I roll 'em too. Being direct and upfront cuts through the clutter. Full Disclosure.

 

[psychomom]

risking rejection...when rejection is one of, if not The thing we fear most, is hard.

but you have to take that risk, right?
so be yourself...don't play any games...that other person is gonna figure out who you really are, eventually.

i used to try to remind myself Jesus was rejected for me...
and God fully accepts me (in a "what can man do to me" kinda way), but it didn't always go so well.

i think you guys will do better.

 

[greentree]

Yes, I agree with the importance of being open and honest. I also think it's important to move slowly in new relationships and gradually share more intimate information as you are learning if the person is safe or not to become closer with.

 

[IBDesmond]

For some reason a poem sprang to my mind, fully formed, while I was taking out the trash.

Make him wait! Make him work! Make him sweat!
Pretty soon he will start to regret
The day his eyes on you ever set
When he compares the effort spent to what he'll get

That poem was actually solid haha. I like it!

 

[Heather_01]

This is an interesting thread. I appreciate all the different opinions and perspectives. And I have taken some good advice from some of the comments, so thank you! I noticed there were several who stated that they prefer to build on the foundation of friendship and I have to agree with them.

So often people go into "dating" mode and put on a front as to who they really are, I'm not saying everyone does this, it is just rather common. Some find out what that other person wants and then become that person just long enough to get a hold on the other. In the words of the wonderful Ms. Taylor Swift (Yes, I'm nearly 30 and rock out to TSwift)...."found out what you want and be that girl for a month." And then the relationship comes crashing down when real characteristics and behaviors peek through that mask. And I feel like this occurs because that individual wants to be wanted, to feel validated and that is so common, and it's understandable! You and I are floating in the same boat! (However, I am more pathetic as I have created my own "Wilson".) We just need to find our validation in God first, and understand our value as a individual, not as a couple. But that can be so difficult because as us women get older, society judges us on our singleness. And I won't say that it is easy, it's painful and lonely. And when those moments of loneliness creep up, just pray! Now, it took me three years to learn that, and I do forget it some days. On the days I forget Haagen Dazs sees a spike in their profit margin....

Also, people often focus on physical appearance, which hinders their abilities to find a person who suits them best. Now, don't get me wrong, physical attraction is always nice. But, sometimes people don't realize that a great friendship CAN lead to physical attraction. Perhaps you "friend zoned" him because he wore glasses, he wasn't very tall, he had a receding hairline, or had that weird patch of hair under his bottom lip. But, after getting to know someone, that physical attraction may begin to develop. (And often those "gorgeous faces/bodies" lead to trouble.) Now, I won't say that blue or green eyes don't make me weak in the knees.... But I will say I have had a moment where an emotional connection led to a physical attraction and that was the better of my past relationships.

My advice, take it slow. Don't go "hunting" for a relationship. Don't hide your faults AND don't judge anyone's faults! There is only One who has that right. Be open, and empathetic, try to understand that individual and their struggles. And I say that because we ALL struggle, in some way or form and people forget that. We are not perfect, only Jesus is. So, be honest about yours and try to understand your significant other's struggle and be supportive. Don't go into a relationship thinking it will always be 50/50, sometimes you will have to lean on each other and it will vary going back and forth from 30/70 to 70/30 to 50/50 (illnesses, troubling times, emotional turmoil).

(Stepping off soapbox....) It's getting wobbly.

Now from a male perspective: Ladies, don't be needy. Give space and appreciate being an "individual". If you can take care of yourself and entertain yourself I'm sure you will be appear ten times more attractive.

 

[Heather_01]

risking rejection...when rejection is one of, if not The thing we fear most, is hard.

It is what we fear most!

 

[DCrawshawJr]

This is all good stuff; yeah I understand the importance of taking it slow and all, seeing as we're in a culture which is fearful of commitment (not any one individual person, but the culture as a whole). Still, I have to confess that it's not easy, because to me, it seems like we're jumping through hoops and having to do all these things before marriage, while in Bible times (yes, I know it's 2015), the time period between being strangers and being spouses was way less (with the exception of Jacob and Leah (at first) in Genesis 29:14-21). If the Bible is the same, if God is the same, and we're trying to get married in purity, what changed?

I guess I answered my own question. What changed (imo) was that people are more afraid to commit. Even Christians, who are surrounded by reminders of the (fairly recent) dating culture, have a harder time wanting to commit. So I understand why people want to make sure they're familiar with each other. Now, I may be wrong, but I'm just guessing here.

As for hunting for a relationship, why is that such a bad thing? I've heard this several times: "The right one will come along when you least expect it." Now, I guess that in today's culture, "hunting" for a spouse will do you no good, because very few people understand your way of thinking and think of you as a creeper, even though in Bible times, it was perfectly acceptable. Still, if one is serious and intentional about getting married, there is absolutely no harm in networking and stating your intentions to third parties. I feel that third parties should take a more active role in getting someone married, but that's for another thread.

I just wish it (the current dating culture) wasn't this way. In my opinion, the only reason people become friends first, then date, is because of this culture. I don't know; I may be wrong here, but that's just how I see it. Yes, marriage makes it harder to focus on the Lord (I Corinthians 7:32-36), but for those who can't handle being single (v. 9), even the Word says marriage is much better than, as the Message puts it, being "sexually tortured".

I know it sounds like I'm being desperate, but I'm just trying to look for a more logical solution to this. It's not as if I refuse to become friends with a person first. Indeed, I have to make sure both people can at least stand each other.

 

[DCrawshawJr]

In all honesty, the second half of your question doesn't really make sense. I mean, it sounds like essentially you're saying you would marry a stranger. How can you know if you want to marry someone if you don't know them?

In this day in age, I would never marry a complete stranger. But in rare cases, if I know she was a Christian, never married or widowed, and wants a husband, I might consider it. I see no sin in it. Now, in a relationship, I would feel comfortable with getting to know the person. My mind is secure, and can relax. However, at the same time, I am serious about marriage. I can't wait too long; the longer I do, my mind may get desperate, and the more likely I might commit more sexual immorality.

I know the second half of my question sounds weird, but what I'm trying to say is, if we both want to be married, what's the point in hiding it at the start, even if we're taking it slow? I don't see that as a "composition of my pee" thing.

 

[IBDesmond]

I can't really speak for the bible times because culturally I don't know much about it but it's more than likely that this is purely a cultural difference. I mean, it's not only dating that they did differently back then. Pretty much everything was different back then and yes we only have one never-changing God but he's the same in character. His attributes are the same. But how he worked would have been different. For example, if someone in the bible times prayed for help with getting the family around, God wouldn't have given them a car...you get me?

How things worked back then wouldn't work now and vice versa. I can't say why exactly but what I will say is that we can't really compare the two entirely. I mean, we can't say "let's do things like the bible times" because culturally it wouldn't work. There's laws again some of those cultural differences haha.

Personally (and I'm not mocking anyone's beliefs but) I can't see how marrying a stranger is even plausible.

 

[IBDesmond]

I know the second half of my question sounds weird, but what I'm trying to say is, if we both want to be married, what's the point in hiding it at the start, even if we're taking it slow? I don't see that as a "composition of my pee" thing.

Now you say, "if we both want to be married"....how can you know without talking about it? For you both to want to be married, you'd have to say "I want to be married" having no idea if she feels the same. If she doesn't feel the same, you might have just scared her off. Now...if you both agree...what then? You speed up the dating process and just quickly pop the question? Okay cool. It's clearly not that simple otherwise you'd be married by now.
But bare this in mind...If you're willing to commit to "in sickness and in health" then go for it fam. Who am I to say otherwise. Just remember you're committing to their way of doing things, their way of cooking, their daily patterns, their habits, you're marrying their family too, you're marrying their insecurities, their past that they might still be dragging with them, their doctrine, their yoke, their likes and dislikes, their opinions, how many kids she wants, how many kids you want, whether or not she can even have kids, whether she'd be willing to adopt, etc etc. You're not just committing to "you love God...I love God....cool..let's get married and spend the rest of our lives together"....it's so much more than that

 

[DCrawshawJr]

OK. Yeah, I see the point. Yeah, like I said, I know this isn't Bible times, and I'm not demanding anyone go back to Bible times. I'm not even comfortable with popping the question right after I know the basics about a girl. So yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite, and chalk it up to never even had a "relationship" in my life, because really, I don't know! There's really no guide to relationships. There's no one set way of doing this, and to me, it's confusing, because I've never been in a relationship. What do I do? What do I say? All I really know is what's the in Bible, and since there was no such thing as "dating" or "relationships" in the Bible, what do I do? So forgive me if I sound like I'm from another planet, because really, I don't know much of anything about relationships. All I really know is that marriage is good, and most people should pursue it. Perhaps I was trying to logically fill in the missing pieces.

 

[ServantStrike]

This thread honestly has me confused.

It feels like there's people saying two things at once. Or my brain is just fried tonight, which is also quite possible.

Personally I feel like making someone wait implies that their time is not valuable. I much prefer when people don't hide behind any games or emotional distance. Just be brutally honest and see where things go from there. It makes life so much simpler. If it's not a good fit you know within a few dates at the most, and you both can just move on to greener pastures.

I'm not saying let someone know every single detail of your life (past present and future), but there is little to no value in silly games either. Express an interest if there is one, and do so at a level appropriate for the length of time you've known someone. Things either click or go down in flames, either way it's much easier. Either way, there's going to be a spark .

 

[IBDesmond]

OK. Yeah, I see the point. Yeah, like I said, I know this isn't Bible times, and I'm not demanding anyone go back to Bible times. I'm not even comfortable with popping the question right after I know the basics about a girl. So yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite, and chalk it up to never even had a "relationship" in my life, because really, I don't know! There's really no guide to relationships. There's no one set way of doing this, and to me, it's confusing, because I've never been in a relationship. What do I do? What do I say? All I really know is what's the in Bible, and since there was no such thing as "dating" or "relationships" in the Bible, what do I do? So forgive me if I sound like I'm from another planet, because really, I don't know much of anything about relationships. All I really know is that marriage is good, and most people should pursue it. Perhaps I was trying to logically fill in the missing pieces.

I hear you pal. I've not really had a relationship neither. But that's been completely by choice (for personal yet benevolent reasons I'm not gonna get into on here). I've spent my time trying to understand females and the difference between men and women and the dynamics of relationships and such, all in preparation for when I do finally meet the one. I use every single day and every experience I face to better me and to learn and grow.

Despite not really having a full real relationship with all it's dynamics, I've learnt a thing or two in my few years.
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!!!!

As much as drawing close to God is good advice. There's reasons why I'm not going to fundamentally give you that. The first reason being is that it sounds like you're already doing that and doing it well so keep going pal. Also, the second being that I think to just say "draw close to God" isn't always very helpful. It can be a cop out. It's the easy thing to say and I find it patronising. So here is my advice to you:

CHILL OUT
It seems like your mentality and attitude towards dating and marriage is quite intense, or some people might find it quite intense (for reasons I've previously stated in my comments). Marriage like you said is a great thing, but it's not the be all and end all. If it was, I'm sure Jesus would have married right? Aspire to marriage but try not to become desperate.

INTERACT
Do you have many female friends? Close female friends? If not, make some. Initiate conversation with someone. Find something in common to talk about. Keep it light hearted. Not all girls are into the deep stuff from the get go and it's kinda hard to discern whether or not she is so play it safe with light hearted conversation. Compliment her shoes or her t-shirt or her bag or something. Be creative. If she blows you off, doesn't make the effort to talk back, don't be disheartened because like men...some girls are weird too haha. Just accept defeat and try again with someone else. Keep doing this. And after a while, start to deepen the topics of conversation, and remember to listen!!! Respond to the things she tells you rather than interrogate. If she closes off a topic of conversation either try continue it, or try start a different topic of conversation that's similar to the previous one. Sooner or later you'll develop a better understanding of females and what they like to talk about and in what ways they like to talk about things. You'll begin to realise that they're not planets apart from men, they're not all the same neither and what makes one woman tick will not work for another. Not only that but you'll get confident (because it sounds a lot like you're not). And don't forget the first thing I said neither....just CHILL. Take it slow. Don't get intense. If you like a girl, become her best friend. Somewhere down the line, tell her you like her a little bit (don't drop the marriage stuff on her)...she might like you back...she might not. If she doesn't, don't beat yourself up. Just don't put all your eggs in one basket with one girl. Trust me, I'm sure you've noticed this before but if you don't feed your feelings for someone, they die.

ACCOUNTABILITY
Be accountable to someone. Someone you can trust. A bro. A homie. A guy friend on CC. Someone you can be honest with who's not gonna judge anything you do. Someone who can give you advice, pray with you, pray for you, and encourage you. Someone to remind you about the last to things I said haha.


I hope that helps pal. Stay close to God and put him first. Trust me, it will keep your heart in check!....NO SERIOUSLY!!! It will really keep your heart in check. You're bound to get heart broken but putting God first will help you recover. It's not even a miraculous thing. It's just wisdom.
NOW GO GET 'EM CHAMP!!!!!











[DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT ENCOURAGE OR ADVOCATE BEING A WOMANISER, PLAYING WOMEN, OR BEING MISOGYNISTIC. I BELIEVE WHOLE HEARTEDLY IN RESPECTING THEM AND REMEMBERING THAT THEY ARE A GIFT FROM GOD TO HUMANITY. MY ADVICE IS NOT THAT OF A CHAUVINISTIC SELF OBSESSED JERK. MY ADVICE IS PURELY TO ENCOURAGE DOUGLAS TO GAIN CONFIDENCE IN TALKING TO FEMALES, TO GAIN CONFIDENCE IN HIMSELF, TO LEARN TO RELAX MORE AND BE LESS INTENSE AND TO MAKE FRIENDS. ANYONE WHO THINKS MY INTENTIONS ARE PERVERSE OR IN ANYWAY CARNAL, PLEASE KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG. THANK YOU. LD]

 

[IBDesmond]

This thread honestly has me confused.

It feels like there's people saying two things at once. Or my brain is just fried tonight, which is also quite possible.

Personally I feel like making someone wait implies that their time is not valuable. I much prefer when people don't hide behind any games or emotional distance. Just be brutally honest and see where things go from there. It makes life so much simpler. If it's not a good fit you know within a few dates at the most, and you both can just move on to greener pastures.

I'm not saying let someone know every single detail of your life (past present and future), but there is little to no value in silly games either. Express an interest if there is one, and do so at a level appropriate for the length of time you've known someone. Things either click or go down in flames, either way it's much easier. Either way, there's going to be a spark .

People keep saying not to play games. That's not what I'm condoning at all. Like you said, don't give people every single detail of your life and such and such too soon. That's what I'm trying to advocate.
We all have a tendency to be impulsive and impatient. I'm just trying to encourage people to relax a little bit. Take your time. There is no rush. And if the other person is starting to pressure you, make him wait.

By "make him sweat", what I mean was, don't let a person think you're easy. Don't make a person think you'll just give everything over at the click of a fingers. It's about knowing your value. If you feel a person knows your value, by all means, go as quick as you like. I'm just encouraging people to test the waters first because I've seen far too many females (in church and out), rush into a relationship with a guy they barely knew and they get used and abused and hurt. If they'd only known their value, made the guy way, made him work for her love, and made him sweat a little bit....she might not have found herself in the situations she had. Sweating separates the wheat from the chaff. If a person starts to sweat, it's cos they're feeling a strain. If they accept the challenge, they will endure through it and sweat like a pig. But if they don't accept the challenge and aren't willing to work. They will give up.

Can yall see where I'm coming from?

 

[ServantStrike]

People keep saying not to play games. That's not what I'm condoning at all. Like you said, don't give people every single detail of your life and such and such too soon. That's what I'm trying to advocate.
We all have a tendency to be impulsive and impatient. I'm just trying to encourage people to relax a little bit. Take your time. There is no rush. And if the other person is starting to pressure you, make him wait.

By "make him sweat", what I mean was, don't let a person think you're easy. Don't make a person think you'll just give everything over at the click of a fingers. It's about knowing your value. If you feel a person knows your value, by all means, go as quick as you like. I'm just encouraging people to test the waters first because I've seen far too many females (in church and out), rush into a relationship with a guy they barely knew and they get used and abused and hurt. If they'd only known their value, made the guy way, made him work for her love, and made him sweat a little bit....she might not have found herself in the situations she had. Sweating separates the wheat from the chaff. If a person starts to sweat, it's cos they're feeling a strain. If they accept the challenge, they will endure through it and sweat like a pig. But if they don't accept the challenge and aren't willing to work. They will give up.

Can yall see where I'm coming from?

Perhaps you're concerned with people who consistently undervalue themselves entering a relationship accepting a turd for a romantic partner? Remaining aloof does little to correct that situation.

My advice in that situation would be don't enter a relationship without first knowing your own value to begin with. I don't care how strong a will someone has - if they don't know their own value, they will end up clinging to the other person to fill the void inside. And yes, they will do all sorts of dumb things and make all kinds of compromises they shouldn't. Statistically, they're going to get burned, because they're hoping they somehow luck out and get the 1 in 100 (or 1 in 1000) that's mature enough not to take advantage of them. It's not going to happen.

I don't see it still to be honest. The truth is the truth - there's nothing to give or to take where it's concerned. If someone just truthfully represents themselves, and the other party pushes for more, and it makes either party uncomfortable, then it's a bad fit - time to bail.


No games, no strings, no nonsense. Quick, efficient, and (some might say) brutal. You meet a lot of people and you toss a lot of suitors to the curb. You also dramatically increase the odds of ending up with someone who is a true keeper and not just a runner up. I'm going to go ahead and make a highlander reference - there can be only one.

But honestly it's not all that brutal. If another person can't handle being told that they're a nice enough person, but they just don't look like a good fit, then no amount of time spent staying in that relationship is going to prop up their ego.