Streams of Consciousness & Thoughts~~~

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kenthomas27

Guest
I believe that God is always just, loving and merciful.


God's act of mercy for us, through Jesus glorified HIM.

His act, is such that every tongue shall confess, every knee shall bow that Jesus is Lord.


What you are colloquially saying , or what I inferred, is that the objective is peace, and hence this was necessary for it or the ends justify the means.

The act of bombing Japan, brought the USA glory too but of a different kind.

If you claim the objective of the dropping of the atomic bomb was solely to end the war and hence bring peace, I would like to differ based on different accounts and documents.

There were alternatives also available to this decision. [also pointed out by the article in the link]

Here are the reasons quoting from a website, with the link here : Understanding the Decision to Drop the Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki | Center for Strategic and International Studies


Deciding to Drop the Bomb

In the lead up to the Trinity test, the top priority for President Truman was to end the war as quickly as possible with the fewest U.S. casualties. For many, this had become the overarching purpose for using the atomic bomb once it was completed. Walker notes five reasons why Truman chose to use the bomb.

*Ending the war at the earliest possible moment - The primary objective for the U.S. was to win the war at the lowest possible cost. Specifically, Truman was looking for the most effective way to end the war quickly, not for a way to not use the bomb.
*To justify the cost of the Manhattan Project - The Manhattan Project was a secret program to which the U.S. had funneled an estimated $1,889,604,000 (in 1945 dollars) through December 31, 1945.

*To impress the Soviets - With the end of the war nearing, the Soviets were an important strategic consideration, especially with their military control over most of Eastern Europe. As Yale Professor Gaddis Smith has noted, “It has been demonstrated that the decision to bomb Japan was centrally connected to Truman's confrontational approach to the Soviet Union.” However, this idea is thought to be more appropriately understood as an ancillary benefit of dropping the bomb and not so much its sole purpose.

*A lack of incentives not to use the bomb - Weapons were created to be used. By 1945, the bombing of civilians was already an established practice. In fact, the earlier U.S. firebombing campaign of Japan, which began in 1944, killed an estimated 315,922 Japanese, a greater number than the estimated deaths attributed to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The firebombing of Tokyo alone resulted in roughly 100,000Japanese killed.

Responding to Pearl Harbor - When a general raised objections to the use of the bombs, Truman responded by noting the atrocities of Pearl Harbor and said that “When you have to deal with a beast you have to treat him as a beast.”
What this article leaves out is the Japanese doctrine by 1944 of Bushido or the value of victory at all cost including suicide. Death was embraced as value with the famed Kamikaze attacks and especially the Banzai attacks in China and the Battle of Saipan, or the acts of international war crimes with treatment of prisoners of war of millions in China often referred to as the Asian Holocaust.

And of course the decision to end the war by using an atomic bomb to destroy two cities in Japan had secondary effects elsewhere. It's easy to second guess on those effects. And of course the United States did things for the benefit of the United States, but Truman's main motive was to end the war as quickly (and as cheaply) as possible with the least amount of U.S. casualty. The Japanese by 1944 had lost nearly all their conquered territory and the US understood their capacity to "fight until death". The war at that point would have taken place in the Island of Japan and would have resulted in huge loses for both sides. A "secondary" effect (of the atomic bombings) was to bring peace to the U.S., Japan, China, and the entire south Pacific - also effects left out of the essay.

As I have repeatedly said, war is NOT just, so the "end justifies the means" is not valid in war. It was an objective to create a greater good by democratically elected leaders of a citizenry largely influenced by Judeao/Christian values.
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
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27
Some good news today. Lately my guitar has really acted up. I didn't know what was wrong with it. I was worried that it might take a while or it might cost some money to repair it. Turns out the neck just needed some adjusting. :) Now it's sounding great again!
 
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MissCris

Guest
Sometimes when two people don't see eye to eye, talking it out and hearing the other person's point of view only makes things worse.

I had a...discussion...with an in-law who has never liked me. It started because I finally snapped- one too many subtle jabs, I think. Anyway, I asked them "What is it about me that you object so strongly to?"

I wasn't expecting to particularly like the answer, but I thought it would be better to know, and possibly defend myself or at least set the record straight on some things...I dunno, I wish I hadn't asked.

Apparently I'm "an uneducated whore who shouldn't even be allowed to have children".

Oh.

It was such a slap in the face that I didn't even know what to say, so I just hung up the phone.

Feel kinda dazed and confused. More than a little hurt. I don't know if I should say anything to my husband about it or not.

I can't even formulate a proper paragraph.

What a day.
 
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kenthomas27

Guest
Sometimes when two people don't see eye to eye, talking it out and hearing the other person's point of view only makes things worse.

I had a...discussion...with an in-law who has never liked me. It started because I finally snapped- one too many subtle jabs, I think. Anyway, I asked them "What is it about me that you object so strongly to?"

I wasn't expecting to particularly like the answer, but I thought it would be better to know, and possibly defend myself or at least set the record straight on some things...I dunno, I wish I hadn't asked.

Apparently I'm "an uneducated whore who shouldn't even be allowed to have children".

Oh.

It was such a slap in the face that I didn't even know what to say, so I just hung up the phone.

Feel kinda dazed and confused. More than a little hurt. I don't know if I should say anything to my husband about it or not.

I can't even formulate a proper paragraph.

What a day.
I would advise talking with your husband about this. I believe this is something that needs to be defended immediately and a sense, at least, of honor restored to you and your family by form of apology. i think your husband will probably spearhead that endeavor. This not only dishonors you, it dishonors your husband and your children.
 
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kenthomas27

Guest
I would advise talking with your husband about this. I believe this is something that needs to be defended immediately and a sense, at least, of honor restored to you and your family by form of apology. i think your husband will probably spearhead that endeavor. This not only dishonors you, it dishonors your husband and your children.
Sorry, still a little burned. I'd also add that if this apology does not come and is not delivered in a compensatory fashion, that this inlaw will have not further contact with your family. That's what I think. That statement was only meant to hurt. It had NO other value.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,507
5,432
113
Sometimes when two people don't see eye to eye, talking it out and hearing the other person's point of view only makes things worse.

I had a...discussion...with an in-law who has never liked me. It started because I finally snapped- one too many subtle jabs, I think. Anyway, I asked them "What is it about me that you object so strongly to?"

I wasn't expecting to particularly like the answer, but I thought it would be better to know, and possibly defend myself or at least set the record straight on some things...I dunno, I wish I hadn't asked.

Apparently I'm "an uneducated whore who shouldn't even be allowed to have children".

Oh.

It was such a slap in the face that I didn't even know what to say, so I just hung up the phone.

Feel kinda dazed and confused. More than a little hurt. I don't know if I should say anything to my husband about it or not.

I can't even formulate a proper paragraph.

What a day.
This makes me REALLY angry...

I know we are to pray for such people but... My prayers are more like, "Lord, you deal with me about EVERYTHING. All I'm asking is that you share the blessing... and deal with the person JUST AS MUCH as you deal with me. Thank you. Amen."

It's kind of like when cars and trucks decide to pass not only me but the car ahead of me as well in a moment of insanity... even with oncoming traffic... My prayers are always something like, "Lord, I pray that you would bless that person with better time management skills so that they don't feel the need to rush and PUT OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES IN DANGER..."

Yup. I know. I'm a work in progress who needs A LOT of work. But nothing gets me riled up more than seeing good people treated unjustly.

Cristen, we love you!!! And your presence here is a blessing to many in this forum. I know it is for me.
 

CatHerder

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
79
48
about to see "Into the Woods." May even make a movie review unless Tintin has already beat me to it!

into the woods.jpg
 

PopClick

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
138
63
Sorry, still a little burned. I'd also add that if this apology does not come and is not delivered in a compensatory fashion, that this inlaw will have not further contact with your family. That's what I think. That statement was only meant to hurt. It had NO other value.
I agree with Ken. As someone who does not have any contact with select family members, I can tell you that it is sometimes the very best thing for all involved. And it's not nearly as big of a deal as some people make it out to be. You can love and forgive someone without being around them anymore.

Please tell your husband. And I'm really sorry they said a stupid thing like that.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
I know we are to pray for such people but... My prayers are more like, "Lord, you deal with me about EVERYTHING. All I'm asking is that you share the blessing... and deal with the person JUST AS MUCH as you deal with me. Thank you. Amen."
I have too much fear to pray that type of thing. lol.
 

cinder

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2014
4,433
2,418
113
I would advise talking with your husband about this. I believe this is something that needs to be defended immediately and a sense, at least, of honor restored to you and your family by form of apology. i think your husband will probably spearhead that endeavor. This not only dishonors you, it dishonors your husband and your children.
Sorry, still a little burned. I'd also add that if this apology does not come and is not delivered in a compensatory fashion, that this inlaw will have not further contact with your family. That's what I think. That statement was only meant to hurt. It had NO other value.
Ditto. Your husband can't be on your side in this if you don't tell him, and if you need to decide to cut off contact with this person he'll have to be in on that decision.

about to see "Into the Woods." May even make a movie review unless Tintin has already beat me to it!

View attachment 94674
Let me know how it is, I think I want to go see it too.
 
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Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,379
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lil_christian: I can sympathize with your guitar. If my neck needed adjusting I might make some strange noises too.

MissChris: It seems like a wasted opportunity... I could have FUN with a relative like that. Bwahahaha!

But I guess it wouldn't be a christian thing to do, tweaking someone like that. *sigh* Oh well, better to just cut the cable and not interact with that relative.
 
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Tintin

Guest
about to see "Into the Woods." May even make a movie review unless Tintin has already beat me to it!

View attachment 94674
Go right ahead, mate. I haven't seen the movie. :)

Cristen: I hate that people treat you that one, especially those who close to you. It's horrible! You need to cut ties with that relative of yours, it's the only healthy thing to do.
 
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blueorchidjd

Guest
I think i'm finally beginning to understand why God says to put others before ourselves.
And that is because he doesn't want us to sit around worrying about our lives and when we put others before ourselves we will have freedom, then that will allow the will of God to be propelling forth in our lives and the right things will come to us.
And we will be a servant to those who need the revelation God has given to us.
 
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MissCris

Guest
tHANK-whoa hello caps lock. Ahem. Thank you all for the advice (and encouragement).

I did tell my husband. I called him, explained how the conversation went, and listened to about 10 seconds of total silence until he said "I'll take care of it", at which point he said goodbye and hung up.

An hour later, his family member called me again. They offered a very stiff apology, followed by this: "The thing is, I know both your mom and your dad from back before you were even born, and I know what kind of [insert profanity] they got up to. Experience tells me that apples don't fall far from the tree, and so far you've not given me any reason to think you're any different."

This coming from someone who spends zero time getting to know me at all. When I'm around this family member, they talk to my husband, they talk to my kids, and they ignore everything I say, including answers to questions they've just asked me.

I'm really angry right now. I think more so now than I was earlier, knowing more of the reason they dislike me so much. Being compared to the way one or more of my parents acted when they were teenagers or in their early twenties, and then deciding, without knowing anything about me, that I'm a worthless human being? Quite aside from the insult that is to MY family, that's a really unfair judgment to make.

My response to them was that I accepted their apology and that I'm not about to "prove" myself to them; I told them I am open to getting to know them better and that they are welcome to spend more time getting to know me better as well, with the condition that they can't continue treating me the way they have been without getting booted out of our lives (turns out, my husband already told this person basically the same thing, just not so nicely).

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
I should probably go work out this anger thing I've got going on.


 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,379
9,384
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Oooooh, the things a mischievous lynx could do with a relative like that...

Hush Lynx. Don't give her any ideas.
 

CatHerder

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
79
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OK - movie review time!!

I was first very skeptical about the quality of this movie because I love, love, love the play. I played french horn in a production of it, then later, directed the show for a Christian nonprofit group. Both were great experiences for me, so I'm kind of emotionally attached. Plus, I love Sondheim.

If you like musicals - SEE THIS MOVIE! If you don't like musicals....see it anyway, and just deal with people bursting out into song fairly often. The plot is so intricate, and much of the action takes place during the songs, so it's not your typical musical where the action stops, someone sings, action, song, etc., so I think that even the non-musical lovers will not be bored.

The plot takes four familiar fairy tales, Jack and the Beanstalk, Cinderella, Rapunzel, and Little Red Riding Hood, and adds a fifth, that of a childless baker and his wife, who find that they had been cursed to be barren by their next door neighbor, the witch, played by Meryl Streep. In what at first becomes a quest story, the witch tells the baker and his wife that to lift the curse and have a child, they are to recover four items: a cow as white as milk, a cape as red as blood, hair as yellow as corn, and a slipper as pure as gold. In addition to lifting the curse, this will also restore the witch's youth and beauty.

From here on, all the characters interact with each other as their tales intertwine. The tales stay fairly true to the Grimm versions, so if all you know of fairy tales come from Disney movies, you are in for a rude awakening. When we have our familiar endings to our well-known tales, the movie is far from over. The characters still have to live with the consequences of their actions, whether it is theft, using deception to obtain a quest item, or manipulating others, etc.

Comparisons to the play:
If you are familiar with the play, you may or may not have picked up on that the witch cannot touch any of the quest items. The movie does a much better job at explaining this. This is the reason the witch sends the baker and his wife to recover the items instead of doing it herself.

The special effects are, of course, better than they could ever do in a Broadway production. The witch's effects are what one would expect from Hollywood, and I loved how they did a freeze frame on the Prince as he was chasing Cinderella down the steps of the palace. Knowing that she would run from him again, he had arranged for pitch to be put on the stairs so she would be stuck. The prince is frozen in place throughout her song as she is deciding to keep running or to let herself be caught. The special effects in the movie make it much clearer that these thoughts take place in a fraction of a second rather than the actual several minutes of the song.

One of the things that the movie misses, (still comparing to the play) is that one of it's important themes is weakened, that "nice" and "good" are two different things. Johnny Depp's wolf is very menacing, but way less sexually suggestive and seductive than the Broadway version. Many Christians might think that this is a good thing, but it makes Red Riding Hood's song after her experience at granny's house make not as much sense. In the song, she is wiser for her experience, and less naive, but also a bit regretful about not being as innocent. Her "nice is different than good" statement doesn't have nearly the impact of the stage version. Lilla Crawford, however, gave an outstanding performance as Red.

The prince (Cinderella's Prince), played by Chris Pine, is delightfully smarmy. I was surprised that he sang rather well too. "Agony," the duet with his brother (Rapunzel's Prince), captured all the humor of the play. His comedic timing was also spot on as he seduced the baker's wife. Historically, the play has always had the wolf and this prince played by the same actor. I've always considered this casting an important statement about the "nice" vs. "good" theme. They missed it here. I believe that Chris Pine (who I always though of as just a moderately talented Hollywood pretty boy before) could have pulled it off, but I guess they wanted the star appeal of Johnny Depp as the wolf, even though his performance was little more than a lackluster cameo. Big mistake. I like Johnny Depp, but not in this.

Meryl Streep as the witch was quite good! It is hard not to compare her to Bernadette Peters and her Broadway performance in the role she originated. Streep's witch, though funny at times, was way more scary than Peters'. Both are outstanding performances...comparing apples and oranges here.

Picking Nits:
In the play, the narrator is on stage, and at one point, actually becomes part of the story. He is also "the mysterious old man in the forest" and is also revealed to be the Baker's father. In the movie, there is a narrator, but he only comes in a couple of times and is not really necessary. They did away with the character of the old man in the forest, but showed a conversation with the Baker and his father's apparition. It seemed out of place - I think they should have either included the character as he was in the play or done away with him entirely.

More nitpicking:
I was kind of bothered by the dialogue between Cinderella and the Baker's wife in which they talked about the ball and dancing with the prince and all while the baker's wife was trying to get the shoe from Cinderella. Cinderella had an American accent, and the Baker's wife had a British accent. That was kind of weird for me, since they were presumably from the same area.

So go see it! It's a very entertaining morality play with some pretty good music. There is one scene of suggested adultery. Also the stepmother cuts off a toe of one of the stepsisters, and the heel of another to try to get their feet to fit the shoe - this is true to the Brothers Grimm version. This happens off screen and the action is actually less bloody than the stage version (we did it with Vienna sausages and a chunk of Spam). There is also some death, but the mortality rate is not nearly as high as the stage version. So, maybe not for the little 'uns, but probably OK for tweens and young teens.
 
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MissCris

Guest
It's really easy to feel motivated to do something unpleasant (like exercise or wash dishes) when I'm lying down and have the excuse of needing my sleep to ensure that there's no real danger of actually having to do anything unpleasant.
 
J

JustAnotherUser

Guest
Feeling like I'm back at base one... Oh wait, I've been at base one.

:/

On a brighter note... Don't know if I should eat or sleep off this hunger.
#FirstWorldProblems
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,379
9,384
113
Funny that the last two posts were talking about sleep. After three and a half hours of sleep I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep. And nobody is in chat. Bleh.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
Sleep it is just a waste of time anyway right? Who needs it? They don't do it in heaven....at least God doesn't sleep.....That's a good thing....Older lady sleep habits stink.... Welcome to my world Lynx....but I suppose this is an exception to your sleep habits as you are still a younger pup....Cat.....Sorry...