Trinity?

[BurdenBarer4U]

For starters, I do not believe in the Holy Trinity, but for Grace's sake, but I do believe
that their will be many souls saved at the end, who have truly excepted Jesus Christ
as their Lord and Savior, though brought up under a Trinity believing Church
( which most are) and didn't fully understand its meaning!

First off, if people study the churches history, they will find that the Trinity Doctrine was a Catholic
man made Dogma ,that was created in 310 AD.
And its a total fact, that every single person that was baptized in the titles of the
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, from the book of Acts until 310 ad were
commanded to get re-baptized in the name of the Lord, Jesus, Christ!

Not only is the Trinity not found in the Bible, but there was not one single person
in the history of Bible, that was ever baptized in those trinity titles!

The name of the Father, and the name of the Son, and name of Holy Ghost,
those are just titles, not names!
The name of the Father is LORD, the name of the Son is Jesus, and the name of
the name of the Holy Ghost is Christ the anointed Word!

Do you see the whole Revelation?
Jesus said; I come in my fathers name,
for when you seen me, You have seen the Father, because we are one!

Its three attributes of the same Almighty God!
Not three separate persons!
When you worship three separate persons, it become idolatry !

One other simple way of understanding it is like this,

When a man as a becomes a father and has a family, and he is made in the like of Gods image,
he has many different offices and roles!
He might for instant have a name John. He is a father, he is a Son, and he is a Husband!
He is not three different persons, but the same one person with 3 different offices!

there's hundreds of more examples if we had time, But as Gods children still proclaim
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One!

 

[VCO]

For starters, I do not believe in the Holy Trinity, but for Grace's sake, but I do believe
that their will be many souls saved at the end, who have truly excepted Jesus Christ
as their Lord and Savior, though brought up under a Trinity believing Church
( which most are) and didn't fully understand its meaning!

First off, if people study the churches history, they will find that the Trinity Doctrine was a Catholic
man made Dogma ,that was created in 310 AD.

"And its a total fact, that every single person that was baptized in the titles of the
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, from the book of Acts until 310 ad were
commanded to get re-baptized in the name of the Lord, Jesus, Christ!"Not only is the Trinity not found in the Bible, but there was not one single person
in the history of Bible, that was ever baptized in those trinity titles!

The name of the Father, and the name of the Son, and name of Holy Ghost,
those are just titles, not names!
The name of the Father is LORD, the name of the Son is Jesus, and the name of
the name of the Holy Ghost is Christ the anointed Word!

Do you see the whole Revelation?
Jesus said; I come in my fathers name,
for when you seen me, You have seen the Father, because we are one!

Its three attributes of the same Almighty God!
Not three separate persons!
When you worship three separate persons, it become idolatry !

One other simple way of understanding it is like this,

When a man as a becomes a father and has a family, and he is made in the like of Gods image,
he has many different offices and roles!
He might for instant have a name John. He is a father, he is a Son, and he is a Husband!
He is not three different persons, but the same one person with 3 different offices!

there's hundreds of more examples if we had time, But as Gods children still proclaim
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One!

☝t<><


WOW! That is as NONE mainline Christian theology as you can get.

I thought we had to agree with mainline theology, to become members here?

Did you have to fib to join?

So do you think Jesus lied when HE SAID THIS:


Matthew 28:18-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name☜{SINGULAR - the three names are One NAME}☞of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

GOD is the sum total of all that HE IS, and likewise Baptizing in the name of Jesus is baptizing in the sum total of all that HE is; which is both man, and GOD in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

 

[newbirth]

☝t<><


WOW! That is as NONE mainline Christian theology as you can get.

I thought we had to agree with mainline theology, to become members here?

Did you have to fib to join?

So do you think Jesus lied when HE SAID THIS:


Matthew 28:18-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Then Jesus came near and said to them,“All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name☜{SINGULAR - the three names are One NAME}☞of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

GOD is the sum total of all that HE IS, and likewise Baptizing in the name of Jesus is baptizing in the sum total of all that HE is; which is both man, and GOD in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

but you cannot show where the apostles did that in scripture....I am not one to claim tampering with scripture...but it has already been alleged...1john 5:7-8 was tampered with...and both cases (1john 5:7-8 and Matt 28:18-19)are to support trinity doctrine....go figure...
[h=2][/h]Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Bowman]

For starters, I do not believe in the Holy Trinity, but for Grace's sake, but I do believe
that their will be many souls saved at the end, who have truly excepted Jesus Christ
as their Lord and Savior, though brought up under a Trinity believing Church
( which most are) and didn't fully understand its meaning!

Scripture mandates that we must worship God as He has revealed Himself to us, Triune.

First off, if people study the churches history, they will find that the Trinity Doctrine was a Catholic
man made Dogma ,that was created in 310 AD.

Moses was Trinitarian.

And its a total fact, that every single person that was baptized in the titles of the
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, from the book of Acts until 310 ad were
commanded to get re-baptized in the name of the Lord, Jesus, Christ!

Each Person of The Trinity has the same one name, Yahweh.

Thus, only one name needs to be mentioned.

Not only is the Trinity not found in the Bible,

Yes, it most certainly is...

but there was not one single person
in the history of Bible, that was ever baptized in those trinity titles!

All were...

Do you see the whole Revelation?
Jesus said; I come in my fathers name,
for when you seen me, You have seen the Father, because we are one!

One what....?

Its three attributes of the same Almighty God!

Not three separate persons!
When you worship three separate persons, it become idolatry !

Trinitarians worship One God.

3 Persons; 1 Being.

Simple Biblical truth.

One other simple way of understanding it is like this,

When a man as a becomes a father and has a family, and he is made in the like of Gods image,
he has many different offices and roles!

He might for instant have a name John. He is a father, he is a Son, and he is a Husband!
He is not three different persons, but the same one person with 3 different offices!

Each Person IS the other Person, in your example.

In The Trinity, each Person is NOT the other.

You are fighting a straw man...

there's hundreds of more examples if we had time, But as Gods children still proclaim
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One!

The Shema IS Trinitarian to begin with...


Come on...

 

[DB7]

This dear brother (Disciple539) is 2 years old (being saved in 2010, according to his profile) and he feels that he is spiritually mature enough to make such a defining statement, that 'The trinity is a false man made doctrine,' when in reality he is a spiritual 'babe,' what Paul calls in Greek a 'nepios' which means literally 'without the power of speech' and speaks of an infant or little child...Heb 5v13

Yahweh Shalom...

That was a cheap and unfounded shot jb.
For one, you were profoundly wrong as to how long and experienced Disciple539 has been in the Church.
And secondly, his longevity as a Christian it's completely incidental to the point at hand, as one's maturity and understanding differs from person to person.
For starters let me say this, the Trinity falls apart right at the get go, "the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but there is only one, indivisible and unconfused God".
No one has the right to go any further offering any proof text until this definition is cleared up, as one cannot be convicted of something that they cannot understand!
And to underscore Disciple539's point, it's verging on offensive if not blasphemy, to quantify and reduce the infinite and transcendent God to three in any manner, on any level.
Not to mention that he was insulted, whipped, spat upon and then killed by his own creation, what low esteem do Trinitarians have of God?
They have completely misinterpreted the texts!

 

[LvsJesus]

Biblical truth according to the Godhead shows that Jesus is the One True God in which trinitarians and oneness agree .

Colossians 2
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


The word trinity historically was derived from the Greek "trias", first used by theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Latin, "trinitas", first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine.

It was accepted as the universal belief at the council of nicea on 325 A.D.

Now it has been accepted by many denominations and will go to great lengths to defend something that they themselves were also taught and carried on down through the generations.

God never had a problem using numerous personal pronouns even by the prophets and in the Pentateuch as well emphatically stating through scripture of the simple fact that there is but One God, which most every proclaimed Christians agree.

But When you take a look at the trinitarian symbol that was generated by trinitarian theologians, and originally from generations of tradition it reads: Jesus is God; The Father is God; The Holy Spirit is God. It also reads: Jesus is not the Father; Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; The Father is not the Son; The Father is not the Holy Spirit; The Holy Spirit is not the Father; The Holy Spirit is not the Son.

All these three are taught to be separate and distinct in personage, as well as co-equal and co-eternal.

Keep in mind this ideology is not something that came from the Bible. Also keep in mind that the word trinity also is not a word used in the Bible to desrcribe God, not to mention is it even used period in Scripture. However, people hold strong to this belief because of years of tradition and teachings of local congregations and so on.

Sadly not every person will prove this doctrine for themselves to be true but will just accept it as truth because of the "Majority rules" concept meaning possibly just because most people hold dear to this doctrine they receive it for themselves and take the easy way out.

Also perhaps to avoid being humiliated or possibly becoming "labeled," is another reason one may take this route.

But what does the bible have to say?


God is Spirit

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is One Spirit

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

If God is Spirit and there is only One Spirit, Then if the two persons Father and the Holy Spirit of Separate, then this alone is contrary to scripture. Because if God is ONE Spirit then this would make God two separate spirits.




Is The Father the Father of the Son Jesus?

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


Is the Father and the Son two or One?

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Here the Son is called the everlasting father showing Jesus as being equal in personage with the father and not two separate persons.

John 14
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


Who will send the comforter? The Father of the Son?

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here it says the Father will send the Comforter in the Name of Jesus.


Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Here the comforter is sent from Jesus. So who is the One doing the sending? The Father of the Son? Or is the Father and the Son two titles or discriptive positions given here?


The Son is not also desribed within the same personage of the Holy Spirit?

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

John 14
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Here Jesus is telling His Disciples He will come to them meaning that He in Spirit is also the comforter, not a separate person apart from the comforter.


Was Jesus omnipresent apart from the Father if indeed they are separate persons?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

here Jesus stated in John three while He was yet present on Earth, He was also simultaneously present in Heaven.

During a trinitarian debate, a oneness asked the trinitarian opponent White, "If you were present to see God on the throne in Heaven, How many in your opinion would you see?" His answer was, "Jesus."

This would stand to reason, seeing that all of the Godhead dwells in Jesus. It doesn't say that Jesus is "in" the Godhead but it says the Godhead is "in" Him.

When Jesus Told His Disciples to:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Were the Apostles still not able to comprehend the scriptures?
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Is every place that stated they were Baptized in HIS NAME, instead of in the Titles, incorrect and invalid meaning the Word is in error?

Did Jesus not mean what He said and the Spirit did not give His Disciples the correct understanding and do we know more than Jesus and His Disciples?

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


Understanding One simple concept




If Jesus Told His Disciple's to baptize in the three titles Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and they baptized in the Name of Jesus, These can mean either one of two things:

1. The Disciple's did not understand What Jesus was saying and disobeyed Him.

2. They understood clearly and this proves one thing concerning this topic:

Jesus is the reaveled God: Father Son and Holy Ghost in One person and not three persons but rather three titles!


Jesus indeed did agree for His disciples to Baptize in His Name


Luke 24
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.


This commission of Christ was fulfilled

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


God bless everyone of you in love and in the Name of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ

 

[Kerry]

Look it up in the strong's Baptism can be figuratively, meaning thrust into an Idea of thought.

Why fight the trinity, you yourself are three in one. You have a mind (soul) a body and a spirit. WE are created in the image of God are we not.

 

[Bowman]

Study up...

But When you take a look at the trinitarian symbol that was generated by trinitarian theologians, and originally from generations of tradition it reads: Jesus is God; The Father is God; The Holy Spirit is God. It also reads: Jesus is not the Father; Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; The Father is not the Son; The Father is not the Holy Spirit; The Holy Spirit is not the Father; The Holy Spirit is not the Son.

All these three are taught to be separate and distinct in personage, as well as co-equal and co-eternal.

Keep in mind this ideology is not something that came from the Bible.

Yes...it did...


There are twelve possible deity combinations....complete with Biblical references...

• The Father is God(2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
• God is the Father (2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
• The Son is God(Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
• God is the Son (Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
• The Spirit is God(Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
• God is the Spirit(Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
• The Father is not the Son(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
• The Son is not the Father(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
• The Son is not the Spirit(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
• The Spirit is not the Son (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
• The Spirit is not the Father(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)
• The Father is not the Spirit(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)

 

[Kerry]

Re: Study up...

Yes...it did...


There are twelve possible deity combinations....complete with Biblical references...

• The Father is God(2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
• God is the Father (2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
• The Son is God(Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
• God is the Son (Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
• The Spirit is God(Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
• God is the Spirit(Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
• The Father is not the Son(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
• The Son is not the Father(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
• The Son is not the Spirit(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
• The Spirit is not the Son (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
• The Spirit is not the Father(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)
• The Father is not the Spirit(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)

I don't mean to be rude, but buy a grip and hold on to it.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Study up...

I don't mean to be rude, but buy a grip and hold on to it.

Come back when you can actually contribute to discussion...thanks...

 

[DB7]

Summary of the main points of the Doctrine of the Trinity:

The Trinity

1. God is three persons
2. Each person is divine
3. There is only one God.

1. Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead.
2. Each of the three persons is not the other two persons.
3. Each of the three persons is related to the other two, but are distinct from them.

Strong1: Subordination within the Trinity:

JimmyDiggs and Strong1, "your" definitions are absurd, contradictory, implausible and defamatory.
Are you prepared to quantify God to three? Can you comprehend what you just stated. Who do you pray to?
It is the quintessence of redundancy having three omnipotent persons within one entity, why do we need more than one omnipotent person if he has no limitations, and can do everything that the other two can?
It's utter foolishness to claim that there are three omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent persons within the Godhead, how can you possibly differentiate between one and the other when they are completely identical and limitless, in every single facet of their being???

By the way, Strong1, just for the record, your subordination concept will get you anathematized by other Trinitarians, that is not orthodox Trinitarian theology.

 

[ChristIsGod]

The description of The Three in One as "persons" is where the latter ECF's went wrong. One can believe in the Triune Godhead, the Triadic Unity, The TriUnity of the Godhead and still be Kosher with the rule of thumb. Just because a person doesn't call The Three in One "persons" does not make them a heretic nor does it mean that they've broke with Forum Rules and 'pointing at their post' in order to get them banned.

I know there's at least one person that would like to get someone banned and that's not Kosher.

What about the Unity that's supposed to exist in The Body of Christ!?

Because a person doesn't care to use the term "persons" does not mean they are not part of The Body of Christ and your Brother or Sister in Christ.
Your suppose to love the household of FAITH especially - but if just 'terminology" in one's description of the Triune Godhead bothers you and your replies are nothing near 'love' over just that --- you have a worse problem going on with that lack of love for the brethren, before God, then the person that doesn't call the tripartite Nature of God as Him being "persons" or if it sounds like "3 gods" to some. Just a reminder that Love is a prerequisite to salvation... there's no debate on that.

 

[LvsJesus]

I understand that the topic is on the Godhead. But beside the subject, what is really important is to get a relationship with the One true God. I am only postling my views which I hold to as well as you all. I would much rather try to contribute to someone's growth in Christ rather than hurting them.
I love each one of You.

 

[ChristIsGod]

You've done nothing wrong.

 

[ChristIsGod]

If Jesus and The Father are not one with The Spirit but three seperate "persons" then what is this verse saying?

WHO lives inside of us -- if we already believe that the Spirit abides in us?

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him,

and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



No one answered this when I asked it twice in some back pages - but I'll tell you - I don't have three 'persons' nor three 'gods' living in me - do you?

 

[VCO]

I understand that the topic is on the Godhead. But beside the subject, what is really important is to get a relationship with the One true God. I am only postling my views which I hold to as well as you all. I would much rather try to contribute to someone's growth in Christ rather than hurting them.
I love each one of You.

A lot of the posting here, falls under these verses:

Jude 1:3-4 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:27-31 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] for I did not shrink back from declaring to you the whole plan of God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock that the Holy Spirit has appointed you to as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.

Matthew 7:15 (ISV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheeps' clothing but inwardly are savage wolves.


When I post a rebuttal to false doctrine or even just a biblical defense of my beliefs. I do not really expect to win the person over that I am debating. I post supporting everything with Scripture, to show the lambs that are just reading the posts, that OUR BELIEFS are supported by Scripture, and to help get them grounded in the word, so that the Wolves in Sheeps' clothing will not lead them astray by every false wind of doctrine.

 

[VCO]

but you cannot show where the apostles did that in scripture....I am not one to claim tampering with scripture...but it has already been alleged...1john 5:7-8 was tampered with...and both cases (1 John 5:7-8 and Matt 28:18-19) are to support trinity doctrine....go figure...

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

☝t<><
newbirth, what am I going to do with you. You take one step forward, followed by two steps back. What cannot be proven is that Mat. 28:19 was tampered with. The idea that Mat. 28:18-19 was tampered with, is purely an evil suspicion of someone wanting to discredit the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, even with a lie.

You should know better:

2 Timothy 3:16 (GW)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


As for the confusion of 1 John 5:7-8 in the KJV, I agree that it is worded incorrectly and the reason for the error is actually found in the ORIGINAL Preface of the KJV. There the translators admitted that the KJV is was a paraphrase from several earlier versions, and not an actual translation from the original languages. Hence the KJV having been paraphrased is worded incorrectly in verse 7:

1 John 5:7-8 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

WHILE actual translations from the original language corrected the error in verse 7:

1 John 5:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 5:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (NRSV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (ESV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (NLT)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] So we have these three witnesses—

1 John 5:7 (ISV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three witnesses—

1 John 5:7 (GW)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There are three witnesses:

1 John 5:7 (Darby)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For they that bear witness are three:


DUCK, the KJV ONLY people may be throwing rocks!

NOW, Here is what I find when I look at Mat. 28:19 in EVERY SINGLE ENGLISH VERSION on my WORDsearch 10 bible software:

Matthew 28:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

I have 21 English Versions on my software and ALL 21 say: the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [ or Ghost]

Even the STRONG's shows: the Father [G3962], the Son [G5207], and the Holy [G40] Ghost [G4151]


One last point: Where on earth did you get the idea that every event and conversation the Disciples experienced and said, is recorded in the bible? ? ? Your theory implies that you believe if it is not recorded, it did not happen. Let me blow that idea clean out of the water:

John 21:25 (ASV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.

 

[kinzo]

Colossians 1: 1-29

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.3We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth; 7just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf, 8and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit.
9For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.


The Incomparable Christ

13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

A doctrinal position proclaimed by the Apostle to the Church of Collassi 24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

This a wonderful declaration of doctrinal faith the God the Father and Son created all things in the universe, and Jesus is Head of the Church as both priest and sacrificial lamb for both Jew and Gentile. On the day of Pentacost, the Holy Spirit descending upon the apostles to testify about all things that Jesus taught them and to walk in a new covenant of faith in Christ as Lord. There is a fluidity of thought and understanding among the readers that their is only One God and not 3 separate Gods. The bible clearly teaches in one God, but reveals a mystery of triune essence in the God head. (father, son, and holy ghost).

I was baptized in a Pentecostal Church in Jesus name which was done in the book of Acts. Today, I attend a Baptist church were people are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I have no problem with that since it is also written in the Bible. Maybe I am too simplistic, but both baptism exhortations are found in the Bible.

 

[newbirth]

☝t<><
newbirth, what am I going to do with you. You take one step forward, followed by two steps back. What cannot be proven is that Mat. 28:19 was tampered with. The idea that Mat. 28:18-19 was tampered with, is purely an evil suspicion of someone wanting to discredit the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, even with a lie.

You should know better:

2 Timothy 3:16 (GW)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


As for the confusion of 1 John 5:7-8 in the KJV, I agree that it is worded incorrectly and the reason for the error is actually found in the ORIGINAL Preface of the KJV. There the translators admitted that the KJV is was a paraphrase from several earlier versions, and not an actual translation from the original languages. Hence the KJV having been paraphrased is worded incorrectly in verse 7:

1 John 5:7-8 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

WHILE actual translations from the original language corrected the error in verse 7:

1 John 5:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 5:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (NRSV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (ESV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that testify:

1 John 5:7 (NLT)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] So we have these three witnesses—

1 John 5:7 (ISV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three witnesses—

1 John 5:7 (GW)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There are three witnesses:

1 John 5:7 (Darby)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For they that bear witness are three:


DUCK, the KJV ONLY people may be throwing rocks!

NOW, Here is what I find when I look at Mat. 28:19 in EVERY SINGLE ENGLISH VERSION on my WORDsearch 10 bible software:

Matthew 28:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

I have 21 English Versions on my software and ALL 21 say: the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [ or Ghost]

Even the STRONG's shows: the Father [G3962], the Son [G5207], and the Holy [G40] Ghost [G4151]


One last point: Where on earth did you get the idea that every event and conversation the Disciples experienced and said, is recorded in the bible? ? ? Your theory implies that you believe if it is not recorded, it did not happen. Let me blow that idea clean out of the water:

John 21:25 (ASV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.

don't you think Peter at Pentecost would have said...
[h=1][/h] , Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of(the Father ,the Son and the HS) instead of the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


.......if he had forgotten so soon, how can we trust anything he said?

 

[oldhermit]

don't you think Peter at Pentecost would have said...
, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of(the Father ,the Son and the HS) instead of the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


.......if he had forgotten so soon, how can we trust anything he said?

You do not seem to understand what the expression "In the name of" means. This is not some kind of religious incantation that must be repeated at one's baptism in order to legitimize the baptism.

In the classical style of the first century language the phrase "εἰς τὸ ὄνομα" - "into the name of" was often used as a legal term. This expression is found among ancient legal documents that recorded the transfer of property. If one purchased a section of land or a dwelling for example, a title transfer would be drawn up to show that this property was now εἰς τὸ ὄνομα - in the name of - the new owner. When Jesus commanded his disciples to preach the gospel to every creature and baptize them εἰς τὸ ὄνομα the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, what he is commanding them to do is to baptize them into the possession of God. Christians are the objects of a property transfer - "out of the kingdom of darkness and into his marvelous light." Baptism then is a property transfer. This same language is used in Acts 2:38 Peter commanded those present to be baptized ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι - into the name of - thus into the possession if Jesus Christ. This was for a two-fold purpose
1. For the removal of sin - Spiritual circumcision, Colossians 2:9-13.
2. To receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. He is the seal of the transfer of property, Ephesians 4:30, 1Corinthians 6:19-20. He is the seal of ownership to show that we have been bought with a price.