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M
I have never heard of the "not to show ANY sings of interets" before. So what happens when a guy does show interest in her and she keeps not showing interest in the guy? How long should he show interest before quiting?
I am all for the chase - hunting, chasing my escaped kite down, chasing the cat at bedtime
- but - the lady has to at least smile over her shoulder playfully at me then dash away, before I give chase.
I am all for the chase - hunting, chasing my escaped kite down, chasing the cat at bedtime
- but - the lady has to at least smile over her shoulder playfully at me then dash away, before I give chase.
I mean yeah smiling and talking is fine but I meant interest as in texting him "hey let's go out Friday night" or telling him you have feelings for him. To me that's showing interest and I don't think the girl should do it before the guy does. If he does show interest then it's completely cool for the girl to show it back. But he has to first. At least that's how I was brought up lol.
Yes. A woman has to be show that she is approachable. And that means by a smile or a greeting.
My ideal pursuit is -
1) Lady smiles at me.
2) I swing my club, knock her out, carry her on my bare shoulders and bring her to my cave.
3) When she comes to her senses, I hand her a chunk of roasted meat.
4) She wolfs it down.
She becomes my wife from that very moment.
My ideal pursuit is -
1) Lady smiles at me.
2) I swing my club, knock her out, carry her on my bare shoulders and bring her to my cave.
3) When she comes to her senses, I hand her a chunk of roasted meat.
4) She wolfs it down.
She becomes my wife from that very moment.
I don't like the word "pursue" ... makes it seem like someone is running away.
TBH, I've never understood why the movie-esque form of showing interest seems so necessary. It has never been that way for me. From a guy's point of view: just start a conversation. If you see her regularly, then have conversations often. If she tends to be very responsive and even starts conversations herself, then figuring out how interested she is just takes time IMO. Honestly there's no reason to assume the interest is based on anything substantial if you just met, so letting the friendship build is good. If she is just polite in the conversation, but doesn't contribute much, then she's probably not interested. End of story - move on.
I dunno. I'd like to think I have not had much problem reading "signals." But I definitely wouldn't try to make someone interested. When has that ever worked? And just because someone isn't interested in a deeper way doesn't mean we can't just talk as sentient human beings, LOL.
Also, the "line" is two texts without a response. Never send more than two messages (three is stretching it) in a row unless one is an emote
TBH, I've never understood why the movie-esque form of showing interest seems so necessary. It has never been that way for me. From a guy's point of view: just start a conversation. If you see her regularly, then have conversations often. If she tends to be very responsive and even starts conversations herself, then figuring out how interested she is just takes time IMO. Honestly there's no reason to assume the interest is based on anything substantial if you just met, so letting the friendship build is good. If she is just polite in the conversation, but doesn't contribute much, then she's probably not interested. End of story - move on.
I dunno. I'd like to think I have not had much problem reading "signals." But I definitely wouldn't try to make someone interested. When has that ever worked? And just because someone isn't interested in a deeper way doesn't mean we can't just talk as sentient human beings, LOL.
Also, the "line" is two texts without a response. Never send more than two messages (three is stretching it) in a row unless one is an emote
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As I started typing out this post, I realized that I have so many random thoughts about this, so hopefully I organized them somewhat well.
I'm not trying to rag on you at all, Molly, but this is one thing that bothers me when it comes to dating. When a woman intentionally doesn't show interest in a guy, not only is that acting dishonestly, but she's really playing a game. It's no different than the way guys make it into a game with all of these tips on how to get a girl--not calling or texting for two days after the date and such. It's all silliness. Fellas, if you want to go out on a date with a girl, ask her out on a date. If you want to go out with her again, ask her for another date. Ladies, if you'd like to go out on a date with him, say yes. If you don't, say no. It really doesn't have to be that complicated.
And yes, men by all means should lead and initiate a relationship, but we also have to acknowledge that there is nothing in the Bible about dating because dating is a relatively new practice. That means, and I just feel this needs to be said, that it is not sinful for a woman even to ask a man out, let alone throw some hints his way, but I would also say that if a relationship is initiated by the woman, that relationship has started off on the wrong foot.
The last thing I'll say is that the man should pursue the woman, but the concept of pursuit doesn't have to be all weird. When I think of pursuit, I think of pursuing a woman's heart. So no, she's not running away and I'm not some type of animal trying to catch her. It's that she is a person full of beauty and worth created by God in His image, and she was created, as we all are, to be known and loved for the beautiful person that God created her to be. So the pursuit, then, is really to go after her heart and to know her deeply. As you progress through a relationship from friendship to dating to engagement to marriage, a man then has the privilege of getting to know her more and more deeply and intimately. And just as God perfectly communicates our worth to all of us through His pursuit of us, so we as men each have the opportunity to, albeit imperfectly, communicate to a certain woman her worth to us if she is able and willing to receive it. They say that love is selfless, and even that initiation is an opportunity to be selfless as we put aside our prideful fear of rejection in order to communicate to someone else what they mean to us. It is scary, no doubt, but hopefully we won't let fear, past rejection, or past mistakes deny someone else the opportunity to know that they are treasured. (It helps when your reasons for entering into a relationship are selfless too.)
As I said before, I believe that God created women with deep beauty, and he has given men an eye for that beauty. Unfortunately there are a lot of loud voices in our world that try to spread to everyone else their own distorted view of what beauty is, and there are other things in the world that have tragically distorted what beauty is in the eyes of men, but that's another topic for a different thread.
I'm not trying to rag on you at all, Molly, but this is one thing that bothers me when it comes to dating. When a woman intentionally doesn't show interest in a guy, not only is that acting dishonestly, but she's really playing a game. It's no different than the way guys make it into a game with all of these tips on how to get a girl--not calling or texting for two days after the date and such. It's all silliness. Fellas, if you want to go out on a date with a girl, ask her out on a date. If you want to go out with her again, ask her for another date. Ladies, if you'd like to go out on a date with him, say yes. If you don't, say no. It really doesn't have to be that complicated.
And yes, men by all means should lead and initiate a relationship, but we also have to acknowledge that there is nothing in the Bible about dating because dating is a relatively new practice. That means, and I just feel this needs to be said, that it is not sinful for a woman even to ask a man out, let alone throw some hints his way, but I would also say that if a relationship is initiated by the woman, that relationship has started off on the wrong foot.
The last thing I'll say is that the man should pursue the woman, but the concept of pursuit doesn't have to be all weird. When I think of pursuit, I think of pursuing a woman's heart. So no, she's not running away and I'm not some type of animal trying to catch her. It's that she is a person full of beauty and worth created by God in His image, and she was created, as we all are, to be known and loved for the beautiful person that God created her to be. So the pursuit, then, is really to go after her heart and to know her deeply. As you progress through a relationship from friendship to dating to engagement to marriage, a man then has the privilege of getting to know her more and more deeply and intimately. And just as God perfectly communicates our worth to all of us through His pursuit of us, so we as men each have the opportunity to, albeit imperfectly, communicate to a certain woman her worth to us if she is able and willing to receive it. They say that love is selfless, and even that initiation is an opportunity to be selfless as we put aside our prideful fear of rejection in order to communicate to someone else what they mean to us. It is scary, no doubt, but hopefully we won't let fear, past rejection, or past mistakes deny someone else the opportunity to know that they are treasured. (It helps when your reasons for entering into a relationship are selfless too.)
As I said before, I believe that God created women with deep beauty, and he has given men an eye for that beauty. Unfortunately there are a lot of loud voices in our world that try to spread to everyone else their own distorted view of what beauty is, and there are other things in the world that have tragically distorted what beauty is in the eyes of men, but that's another topic for a different thread.
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M
ChandlerFan, I actually agree with everything you said. I didn't mean that a woman shouldn't smile or strike up a conversation with a man. I just meant that it's weird for her to go up to him and ask him out. I feel that that should be the man's job. I was raised old fashioned I guess...
I really liked the way Pastor Paul Washer says it here
[youtube]Db9OVpqCMGE[/youtube]
I really liked the way Pastor Paul Washer says it here
[youtube]Db9OVpqCMGE[/youtube]
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M
I don't know how to embed a video! I've tried editing it and it won't work.
Here is the link.
http://youtu.be/Db9OVpqCMGE
Here is the link.
http://youtu.be/Db9OVpqCMGE
Definitely, and I agree with you. I've come across a lot of people who would consider me old-fashioned as well. I just like to make the distinction between what is actually found in the Bible and what is not. I do believe that God commissions men to lead their families and that that ultimately should begin with a man initiating a relationship, but because the Bible doesn't speak to dating, we can't say that the Bible prohibits women from initiating a relationship. We could, however, say that a man is walking more according to God's design by taking the initiative in a relationship, and a woman is walking more according to God's design in waiting for that type of man.
(And for video embedding, you click that little film strip icon that is second from the right, and copy and paste the link into the box that pops up)
[video=youtube;Db9OVpqCMGE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db9OVpqCMGE&feature=youtu.be[/video]
(And for video embedding, you click that little film strip icon that is second from the right, and copy and paste the link into the box that pops up
) [video=youtube;Db9OVpqCMGE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db9OVpqCMGE&feature=youtu.be[/video]
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A
A man should pursue. A woman should not submit easily and should not pursue. Here are the strict rules:
Man is attracted to the lady
Man worships the lady from afar
Man declares passionate devotion
Virtuous rejection of man by the lady
Man resorts to renewed wooing with oaths of virtue and eternal fealty
Man submits his will to the Lady
Man suffers love sickness and is at death's door
Lady gives him hope provided he proves his worth
Man performs heroic deeds of valor which win the lady's heart
Lady finally agrees to be his wife and now submits to his will and accepts him as her Lord
I'll accept nothing less.
I am half joking...only.
Man is attracted to the lady
Man worships the lady from afar
Man declares passionate devotion
Virtuous rejection of man by the lady
Man resorts to renewed wooing with oaths of virtue and eternal fealty
Man submits his will to the Lady
Man suffers love sickness and is at death's door
Lady gives him hope provided he proves his worth
Man performs heroic deeds of valor which win the lady's heart
Lady finally agrees to be his wife and now submits to his will and accepts him as her Lord
I'll accept nothing less.
I am half joking...only.
M
Personally, I find it difficult to tell the difference between a girl showing interest and a girl who is just friendly. Just recently there was a girl who I thought for sure liked me, but when I asked her out she declined. However, a year or so ago I told a girl who I was much less sure about that I liked her, and she was interested (didn't work out for other reasons).
There is also a girl who texts me all the time and is very comfortable hugging and what not, but I know for a fact she has a boyfriend.
In conclusion, I think it would make my life a lot easier if girls had some kind of bat signal that could let us know they like us without implicitly asking us out on a date...
There is also a girl who texts me all the time and is very comfortable hugging and what not, but I know for a fact she has a boyfriend.
In conclusion, I think it would make my life a lot easier if girls had some kind of bat signal that could let us know they like us without implicitly asking us out on a date...
M
I was thinking more of a super secret handshake that your parents reveal to you when you turn 16.
Scenario:
An attractive girl walks into the room and smiles, you introduce yourself, and thus conversation begins. You hang out for an hour or two, and seems like it went well. Then before she leaves, she gives your hand three small shakes, fist bump, 360 high five to low five, and ends with a backflip-fist bump-explosion.... Then you know for sure, and leave happy.
But seriously, sometimes girls are pretty cryptic. though what you said would be a good start haha. I think there could be a little more than that though.
Scenario:
An attractive girl walks into the room and smiles, you introduce yourself, and thus conversation begins. You hang out for an hour or two, and seems like it went well. Then before she leaves, she gives your hand three small shakes, fist bump, 360 high five to low five, and ends with a backflip-fist bump-explosion.... Then you know for sure, and leave happy.
But seriously, sometimes girls are pretty cryptic. though what you said would be a good start haha. I think there could be a little more than that though.
To me it shouldn't make a lot of difference whether or not you think a girl likes you when considering whether or not to ask her out. I understand that knowing that she likes you makes it easier to ask her, but as men we have to be willing to do hard things sometimes and not always hold out for things to get easier. Asking her out is how you find out if she likes you lol. And then you avoid the game of trying to figure it out in more cryptic and unclear ways.
S
I don't like the word "pursue" ... makes it seem like someone is running away.
TBH, I've never understood why the movie-esque form of showing interest seems so necessary. It has never been that way for me. From a guy's point of view: just start a conversation. If you see her regularly, then have conversations often. If she tends to be very responsive and even starts conversations herself, then figuring out how interested she is just takes time IMO. Honestly there's no reason to assume the interest is based on anything substantial if you just met, so letting the friendship build is good. If she is just polite in the conversation, but doesn't contribute much, then she's probably not interested. End of story - move on.
I dunno. I'd like to think I have not had much problem reading "signals." But I definitely wouldn't try to make someone interested. When has that ever worked? And just because someone isn't interested in a deeper way doesn't mean we can't just talk as sentient human beings, LOL.
Also, the "line" is two texts without a response. Never send more than two messages (three is stretching it) in a row unless one is an emote
TBH, I've never understood why the movie-esque form of showing interest seems so necessary. It has never been that way for me. From a guy's point of view: just start a conversation. If you see her regularly, then have conversations often. If she tends to be very responsive and even starts conversations herself, then figuring out how interested she is just takes time IMO. Honestly there's no reason to assume the interest is based on anything substantial if you just met, so letting the friendship build is good. If she is just polite in the conversation, but doesn't contribute much, then she's probably not interested. End of story - move on.
I dunno. I'd like to think I have not had much problem reading "signals." But I definitely wouldn't try to make someone interested. When has that ever worked? And just because someone isn't interested in a deeper way doesn't mean we can't just talk as sentient human beings, LOL.
Also, the "line" is two texts without a response. Never send more than two messages (three is stretching it) in a row unless one is an emote
The trick is to get someone talking about themselves and what they're interested. This works for both men and women, and is a good way for a woman to convince a man to ask her out.
Yeah, I hear you on that one.
Actually my experience with the super friendly ones who have boyfriends is that many of them are secretly hoping you'll ask them out so they can dump their current boyfriend. A lot of people aren't emotionally stable enough to be "single" so they end up staying in dumb relationships.
Either that or she's just really friendly.
Unless you and the boyfriend are both personal friends, no guy is going to be comfortable with a girlfriend spending lots of time with a strange dude.
Maybe her scalp just itched? Maybe she just likes to flirt. It's not necessarily a sign of interest.
If women would just accidentally give men their phone number, I think a large number of even the most passive guys might actually be able to take it from there. No asking out has occurred at that juncture and the dude still has to lead at the beginning of the relationship.
What's interesting is not a lot of discussion has been made about when a man casually meets a woman, perhaps at her place of work. It's not like that atmosphere is conducive to a ton of talking, and as we've discussed, some women are just flirty. With very little data to go on, and no real idea of whether or not a woman is interested, she might never get asked out at all.
In that case, I'd say the woman has to help the guy out at least a little bit. If he goes there often, he's not going to risk burning any bridges unless he's feeling particularly reckless (or young). Plus if there isn't a lot to go on, the reward doesn't necessarily outweigh the risk.
At least that's a problem I've found myself with on more than one occasion. Sometimes I feel like I should have asked the woman out simply so she knew that I thought she was attractive and that I wasn't just flirting for fun. Sometimes I have asked her out. It almost never works though. It's like throwing darts at a board - you really have no idea what you're getting, and it's like the darts bounce back at you half the time (expect to hear the word "no" a lot).
Perhaps I'm just weird in that I'll ask out a random stranger to get to know them for a date or two. At least I used to be that way, I'm not sure I have the nerve for it any more. It's not the most comfortable thing in the world to do.
M
I can see that, and I've been in situations where I will tell a girl how I feel even if they more than likely don't have the same feelings. In that case it's usually for my own sake, because I tend to drive myself crazy if I don't find out for certain if something was there or not. However, I think there is often a mentality that women shouldn't have to put any effort into pursuing/starting a relationship. And while I think it's ultimately our responsibility to ask a girl out, I think girls could often be more clear about making their feelings known one way or the other.
Anna, I know you're half joking, so I'm not targeting what I'm about to say at you or what you specifically said. It just got my brain working.
But I think Christian women should think long and hard about playing 'hard to get' in that way, in the sense of using initial rejections as a way to see if a man is really 'worthwhile'. (it does happen)
The reality is, an honourable Christian man is just as likely to drop things after a rejection as they are to continue to 'pursue'. If a man drops it after that, that makes him no less honourable, and perhaps actually makes them moreso, because they're taking what you say at face value, and accepting your apparent wishes.
It's all well and good to say men should initiate relationships, but what I've observed is that Christian women, despite saying they want men to initiate, often will have a very specific idea already in their heads of who their prospective man should be, and what he should be like. Holding these two things together is actually very difficult.
To me, (and correct me if this doesn't ring true) it's a bit like saying to someone that you wish them to take the initiative in choosing and buying you a birthday present, but you will also only accept one particular present - all others you will reject. Not only does it undermine the whole point of asking them to take the initiative in the first place, but it also has a chilling affect on theme trying to buy you a present in the future, AND it's just incredibly inefficient - if you wanted a specific present in the first place, then you could have gotten it yourself!
So I feel like something has to give - either the person has to be prepared to at least have a go with other presents, or they have to take the initiative from time to time. I think either approach is acceptable, and I don't think a woman taking the lead in initiating a relationship somehow contradicts male headship, for the reasons ChandlerFan outlined - the Bible doesn't deal with dating.
Also, something I've been thinking of recently, and I would be interested to hear people's thoughts on - who was the initiator of the relationship between Ruth and Boaz?
But I think Christian women should think long and hard about playing 'hard to get' in that way, in the sense of using initial rejections as a way to see if a man is really 'worthwhile'. (it does happen)
The reality is, an honourable Christian man is just as likely to drop things after a rejection as they are to continue to 'pursue'. If a man drops it after that, that makes him no less honourable, and perhaps actually makes them moreso, because they're taking what you say at face value, and accepting your apparent wishes.
It's all well and good to say men should initiate relationships, but what I've observed is that Christian women, despite saying they want men to initiate, often will have a very specific idea already in their heads of who their prospective man should be, and what he should be like. Holding these two things together is actually very difficult.
To me, (and correct me if this doesn't ring true) it's a bit like saying to someone that you wish them to take the initiative in choosing and buying you a birthday present, but you will also only accept one particular present - all others you will reject. Not only does it undermine the whole point of asking them to take the initiative in the first place, but it also has a chilling affect on theme trying to buy you a present in the future, AND it's just incredibly inefficient - if you wanted a specific present in the first place, then you could have gotten it yourself!
So I feel like something has to give - either the person has to be prepared to at least have a go with other presents, or they have to take the initiative from time to time. I think either approach is acceptable, and I don't think a woman taking the lead in initiating a relationship somehow contradicts male headship, for the reasons ChandlerFan outlined - the Bible doesn't deal with dating.
Also, something I've been thinking of recently, and I would be interested to hear people's thoughts on - who was the initiator of the relationship between Ruth and Boaz?
Ok yeah, I agree with you there. Women definitely shouldn't be trying to conceal their feelings, but I also get the feeling that most wouldn't be able to even if they wanted to when it comes to a guy they really like haha (at least from their perspective--we guys are masters at staying oblivious to what they think is obvious).