Marriage Adultery Pornography

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Did Chip Douglas cheat/commit adultery? Can his wife give him a biblical divorce?


  • Total voters
    32
Dec 6, 2014
181
3
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#21
I have another question for the people saying "it's better to learn to forgive" [as opposed to divorce]. Is this an indirect way of saying that one has to stay married to the person in order to truly forgive? Can one forgive and still divorce (that isn't to say the person cheated on SHOULD or SHOULDN'T divorce)?

I would argue we should forgive everyone, 100% of the time. That should go without saying. The real question isn't whether to forgive or not... the question is, is this grounds for a biblical divorce (primary), then what you think the spouse being cheated on ought to do (secondary).
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,977
972
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#22
I have another question for the people saying "it's better to learn to forgive" [as opposed to divorce]. Is this an indirect way of saying that one has to stay married to the person in order to truly forgive? Can one forgive and still divorce (that isn't to say the person cheated on SHOULD or SHOULDN'T divorce)?

I would argue we should forgive everyone, 100% of the time. That should go without saying. The real question isn't whether to forgive or not... the question is, is this grounds for a biblical divorce (primary), then what you think the spouse being cheated on ought to do (secondary).
I don't see why that wouldn't be possible, but I would suggest that people take the time to really get to know the person fully before taking that vow before God and everyone you know. Of course we can't predict or prevent other peoples behaviors, but before we swear to stay with that person your whole life, you know "till death", make sure you mean it. Marriage is such a superficial thing these days and too many take it way too lightly.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#23
Only God knows the condition of someone's heart. This thread seems like a whole lot of getting the splinter out of someone else's eye. When its all said and done, there is so much more God will take into consideration than our feeble little surface dweller minds can comprehend.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#24
According to the Bible he never commited adultry on his wife. When Jesus refers to this he addresses what is written in the 10 commandments. That is the physical act, then Jesus responds to the matter of the heart. Many times we say one thing without understand or making an attemt to understand what was being said in the passage. Jesus also said if you hate you brother you are commiting murder, so can we convict a person for murder because they hate a brother and place him in jail? If he never looked at porn but stared at women thinking what he would do sexually is that grounds for divorce? Now we all know that porn is addictive for men and women and has torn up many families which is not in the plan of God yet it is not grounds for divorce and remarriage accordign to the Bible.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#25
With that said she can divorce him but they both have to remain single unless they reconcile.
 
Dec 6, 2014
181
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#26
According to the Bible he never commited adultry on his wife. When Jesus refers to this he addresses what is written in the 10 commandments. That is the physical act, then Jesus responds to the matter of the heart. Many times we say one thing without understand or making an attemt to understand what was being said in the passage. Jesus also said if you hate you brother you are commiting murder, so can we convict a person for murder because they hate a brother and place him in jail? If he never looked at porn but stared at women thinking what he would do sexually is that grounds for divorce? Now we all know that porn is addictive for men and women and has torn up many families which is not in the plan of God yet it is not grounds for divorce and remarriage accordign to the Bible.
You make really good points and ask a good question. This is why I'm so uncertain one way or the other. Good post!
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#27
I answered c, I suppose his wife could give him a biblical divorce, but like others have posted GOD can heal their marriage.
 
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TheOneMarcus

Guest
#28
I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the majority of this thread. First of all, the man did nothing but watch a video or look at a picture. I would understand if he was talking/flirting with a woman face to face, phone, text, or via the Internet, actually attempting to engage in trying to touch and have sex with the other woman. We all lust at one point in time of our lives and it all depends on who we lust after, the spouse or other than the spouse. Being a man myself, we are visual people and all it really takes is an image or a thought to get aroused. If he was looking at the woman, or women, and tried to search and find how he can meet her, or them, and in an attempt to have sex, then he has crossed the line into "lusting after."

I am a bible reader and I have never found a passage or reference to any SIN referring to a man looking at, in those days, a statue or painting of a nude woman or women. In the days when our LORD walked the earth, the Greeks/Romans had a plethora of nude statues and paintings everywhere, and even prostitutes on the street displaying themselves. I wouldn't even doubt there were public intercourses and/or orgies at that time. Now would it be a SIN for a man to look-at/watch, get aroused, and please himself but not engage or touch another person? The scriptures explains this kind of act is UNCLEAN in Leviticus and UNCLEAN is not a SIN. For example:

Leviticus 15
[SUP][SUP]16 [/SUP]Any man who has a flow of semen must take a bath, but he still remains unclean until evening. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If the semen touches anything made of cloth or leather, these must be washed, but they still remain unclean until evening. [SUP]18 [/SUP]After having sex, both the man and the woman must take a bath, but they still remain unclean until evening.

25 [/SUP]Any woman who has a flow of blood outside her regular monthly period is unclean until it stops, just as she is during her monthly period. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Anything that she rests on or sits on during this time is also unclean, just as it would be during her period. [SUP]27 [/SUP]If you touch either of these, you must wash your clothes and take a bath, but you still remain unclean until evening.

The man and woman in this example from scripture shows uncleanliness is not a SIN and everything is OK once they take a shower and wait for the sun to go down.

We as Christians cannot be so small minded and quick to judge a person for there actions. Doing so, we have SINNED worse than Douglas, if what he did is a SIN. Matthew 7:1: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." (NIV)

Here is a good blog about the history of the term we are familiar with, and is too broad, sexual immorality: http://mathaytes.blogspot.com/2012/08/is-porn-porneia.html

Here is the comment/response I wrote in relation to this blog but it never posted:

Great insight on this matter. However, I disagree that looking-at and watching porn is a sin. Scripture is quite clear on what is a sin. Too many see these verse as a reason to call it a sin:

"Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. "

and

" 2 Samuel 11:2 It happened, late one afternoon, when David arose from his couch and was walking on the roof of the king’s house, that he saw from the roof a woman bathing; and the woman was very beautiful."

However, in ancient times there was only one way to lust, to physically act on the lustful desire. If David only viewed the woman from his roof and went back to his couch to masturbate while thinking about the woman or even still looking at her, it probably would not even make into the bible, other than he made himself unclean according to Leviticus 15:16. Yet, he acted on the desire, sent someone to get the woman for him, he then commend the sin of lust with her, and then later broke a commandment of GOD, the father YahWeh, committing murder to cover-up his disgrace.

I believe that viewing pornography is only unclean which can be fixed by bathing and praying for forgiveness now we have Yahshua, Jesus, as our savior and we no longer have the need to make any blood sacrifices.
The list of sexual sins in Leviticus all require physical contact, such as in the days of the Messiah and still today. Moreover, in those days, there were depictions and statues of sexual images that the Messiah and the Apostles never talked about, but only referred to the sexual sins in Leviticus.

The people in pornography can qualify as prostitutes, selling their bodies for sexual desires of others, and we should refrain from having any sexual contact, physical, with these people since it will be the actual act of a sexual sin.



Therefore, in this case, Douglas has not SINNED, but made himself UNCLEAN. Therefore, there is no actual reason or permit for his wife to have a biblically backed divorce for simply looking-at/watching porn. I hope this was insightful for most of you. I look forward to continuing this discussion with all of you, my brothers and sisters in Christ/Messiah.


PS: Yes porn can be addictive just like many other things in this world we live in can become addictive. Once anything becomes #1 in your life other than GOD, then you have SINNED against the #1 commandment of the FATHER.
 
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TheOneMarcus

Guest
#29
I need to add this in-order to complete my thought and was not able to edit my post:

Therefore, in this case, Douglas has not SINNED, but made himself UNCLEAN. Therefore, there is no actual reason or permit for his wife to have a biblically backed divorce for simply looking-at/watching porn. Perhaps, the wife SINNED by not providing sex to her husband when he wants her since her body is not hers anymore, but he now owns her body and visa-verse. Moreover, instead of damning the man, the wife may need to talk to her husband and discuss why he needed to watch porn to be pleased. Perhaps, she is not providing the type of sex he desires. This is a whole new discussion on the types of sex we can have in marriage, since the fact of the matter is in marriage we are permitted to have all types of sex with our spouses as long as it does not break any of the laws in Leviticus such as but not limited to: orgies, prostitutes, children, animals, and same-sex.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#30
Have to ask why was he watching it in first place, was his wife not satisfying him?
 
Mar 21, 2011
1,515
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#31
Well you know, as much as this is a harsh and unforgiving thread,..... I just gotta say Yay, for the first time I've seen the ethics taught by Jesus being discussed at all, in like the last 5 years online.

Oh sorry, I take that back, Jesus briefly asked one of his followers to carry a sword, so that justifies the nuclear arms race in the cold war.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#32
The correct answer is: No, Chip did not cheat/commit adultery. No, his wife cannot give him a biblical divorce.

2014 Barna Group Study results for self-identifying Christian men between 18 and 30 years old:

  • 77 percent look at pornography at least monthly.
  • 36 percent view pornography on a daily basis.
  • 32 percent admit being addicted to pornography (and another 12 percent think they may be).
The statistics for middle-aged Christian men ages 31 to 49 years old:

  • 77 percent looked at pornography while at work in the past three months.
  • 64 percent view pornography at least monthly.
  • 18 percent admit being addicted to pornography (and another 8 percent think they may be).
Married Christian men as a group:

  • 55 percent look at pornography at least monthly.

According to a ChristiaNet survey, 50 percent of Christian men are addicted to pornography. And it’s not just a “guy-thing;” 20 percent of Christian women are addicted to pornography, and 60 percent of Christian women admitted to significantly struggling with lust.

Etc... etc... etc...

The bible does not ordain that about half of all marriages in the U.S. involving Christians be terminated because society has become permeated by pornography that is negatively affecting the nation's inhabitants.

We live in an immoral and divorce obsessed culture but viewing pornography is a problem to be remedied, not a biblical justification for breaking up a family through divorce.

Ageofknowledge has spoken.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#33
I have another question for the people saying "it's better to learn to forgive" [as opposed to divorce]. Is this an indirect way of saying that one has to stay married to the person in order to truly forgive? Can one forgive and still divorce (that isn't to say the person cheated on SHOULD or SHOULDN'T divorce)?

I would argue we should forgive everyone, 100% of the time. That should go without saying. The real question isn't whether to forgive or not... the question is, is this grounds for a biblical divorce (primary), then what you think the spouse being cheated on ought to do (secondary).
It's not technically adultery, BUT it is misusing something that belongs to his wife.
Namely his own body.
In the context of marriage and sexual relations, his body isn't his, it belongs to his wife.

1 Cor
7 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
The wife has authority over his body as far as sexual relations go.
He's misusing something that belongs to her.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#34
Who on earth is Chip Douglas?
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#35
AoK, the Barna group is not exactly pro-Christians and I've been told to pay no mind to their 'polls'.

That hurts when a polling group may not be legit and have negative influencing ulterior motives :(
 
S

Stella_

Guest
#36
Im a Sundayschool teacher, and recently had the very same question from one of my students, i went in search of an answer and stumbled upon the following: First of all, no matter what view one takes on the issue of divorce, it is important to rememberMalachi 2:16: “I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel.” According to the Bible, marriage is a lifetime commitment. “So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate” (Matthew 19:6). God realizes, though, that since marriages involve two sinful human beings, divorces are going to occur. In the Old Testament, He laid down some laws in order to protect the rights of divorcees, especially women (Deuteronomy 24:1-4). Jesus pointed out that these laws were given because of the hardness of people’s hearts, not because they were God’s desire (Matthew 19:8).

The controversy over whether divorce and remarriage is allowed according to the Bible revolves primarily around Jesus’ words inMatthew 5:32and19:9. The phrase “except for marital unfaithfulness” is the only thing in Scripture that possibly gives God’s permission for divorce and remarriage. Many interpreters understand this “exception clause” as referring to “marital unfaithfulness” during the “betrothal” period. In Jewish custom, a man and a woman were considered married even while they were still engaged or “betrothed.” According to this view, immorality during this “betrothal” period would then be the only valid reason for a divorce.

However, the Greek word translated “marital unfaithfulness” is a word which can mean any form of sexual immorality. It can mean fornication, prostitution, adultery, etc. Jesus is possibly saying that divorce is permissible if sexual immorality is committed. Sexual relations are an integral part of the marital bond: “the two will become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24;Matthew 19:5;Ephesians 5:31). Therefore, any breaking of that bond by sexual relations outside of marriage might be a permissible reason for divorce. If so, Jesus also has remarriage in mind in this passage. The phrase “and marries another” (Matthew 19:9) indicates that divorce and remarriage are allowed in an instance of the exception clause, whatever it is interpreted to be. It is important to note that only the innocent party is allowed to remarry. Although it is not stated in the text, the allowance for remarriage after a divorce is God’s mercy for the one who was sinned against, not for the one who committed the sexual immorality. There may be instances where the “guilty party” is allowed to remarry, but it is not taught in this text.

Some understand1 Corinthians 7:15as another “exception,” allowing remarriage if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer. However, the context does not mention remarriage, but only says a believer is not bound to continue a marriage if an unbelieving spouse wants to leave. Others claim that abuse (spousal or child) is a valid reason for divorce even though it is not listed as such in the Bible. While this may very well be the case, it is never wise to presume upon the Word of God.

Sometimes lost in the debate over the exception clause is the fact that whatever “marital unfaithfulness” means, it is an allowance for divorce, not a requirement for it. Even when adultery is committed, a couple can, through God’s grace, learn to forgive and begin rebuilding their marriage. God has forgiven us of so much more. Surely we can follow His example and even forgive the sin of adultery (Ephesians 4:32). However, in many instances, a spouse is unrepentant and continues in sexual immorality. That is whereMatthew 19:9can possibly be applied. Many also look to quickly remarry after a divorce when God might desire them to remain single. God sometimes calls people to be single so that their attention is not divided (1 Corinthians 7:32-35). Remarriage after a divorce may be an option in some circumstances, but that does not mean it is the only option.

It is distressing that the divorce rate among professing Christians is nearly as high as that of the unbelieving world. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16) and that reconciliation and forgiveness should be the marks of a believer’s life (Luke 11:4;Ephesians 4:32). However, God recognizes that divorce will occur, even among His children. A divorced and/or remarried believer should not feel any less loved by God, even if the divorce and/or remarriage is not covered under the possible exception clause ofMatthew 19:9. God often uses even the sinful disobedience of Christians to accomplish great good


 
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hannahbeth1124

Guest
#38
I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment and point out that in biblical times, a woman could not even file for a divorce. the Hebrew word used in reference to what we understand as divorce literally means "the sending away of a wife". The laws Moses made were to protect women from being thrown out of their homes and away from their children unlawfully. Carrying that idea over into today's culture is a little tougher considering a wife is no longer considered "property", but an equal partner in a marriage. That said, given that the wife is now (where I live) given the same rights as the man in a marriage to end it. I think the bigger question here is when is it acceptable to file? I don't find that the passage stating "God hates divorce" is applicable to all marriages, given that at that time it meant "the sending away of a wife". Also, contextually speaking, that passage was in reference to a man divorcing his wife to be with a new woman and for no other reason. In this scenario we see a fickle and lustful man abandoning a woman he took vows with and trading in for a "newer model", so to speak. And given that the word divorce no longer means what the original Hebrew constraints said it means, we can't possibly apply it to all marriages. In situations with perpetual unfaithfulness, abuse, drug addiction, etc, is it truly the will of God to have a woman (or man for that matter) stay in a marriage that is destructive?

If Chip is watching porn, he's cheating. He's watching another woman, lusting after her, and his wife is by no means involved in the process God clearly ordained a man and wife to act in together. Does this qualify her for a BIBLICAL divorce? No. She's a woman... Does this qualify her for what we now consider a divorce? I suppose that's entirely dependent on whether or not they're "equally yoked" and whether both parties are willing to seek a resolution ending in reconciliation. If the answer is no on either side, who are we to say God didn't mean for that marriage to end for any number of reasons? Yet another case of "God's plan is a bit bigger than we give it credit for."
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#39
I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment and point out that in biblical times, a woman could not even file for a divorce. the Hebrew word used in reference to what we understand as divorce literally means "the sending away of a wife". The laws Moses made were to protect women from being thrown out of their homes and away from their children unlawfully. Carrying that idea over into today's culture is a little tougher considering a wife is no longer considered "property", but an equal partner in a marriage. That said, given that the wife is now (where I live) given the same rights as the man in a marriage to end it. I think the bigger question here is when is it acceptable to file? I don't find that the passage stating "God hates divorce" is applicable to all marriages, given that at that time it meant "the sending away of a wife". Also, contextually speaking, that passage was in reference to a man divorcing his wife to be with a new woman and for no other reason. In this scenario we see a fickle and lustful man abandoning a woman he took vows with and trading in for a "newer model", so to speak. And given that the word divorce no longer means what the original Hebrew constraints said it means, we can't possibly apply it to all marriages. In situations with perpetual unfaithfulness, abuse, drug addiction, etc, is it truly the will of God to have a woman (or man for that matter) stay in a marriage that is destructive?

If Chip is watching porn, he's cheating. He's watching another woman, lusting after her, and his wife is by no means involved in the process God clearly ordained a man and wife to act in together. Does this qualify her for a BIBLICAL divorce? No. She's a woman... Does this qualify her for what we now consider a divorce? I suppose that's entirely dependent on whether or not they're "equally yoked" and whether both parties are willing to seek a resolution ending in reconciliation. If the answer is no on either side, who are we to say God didn't mean for that marriage to end for any number of reasons? Yet another case of "God's plan is a bit bigger than we give it credit for."
and furthermore, if he is watching porn AND sleeping with his wife he is using her and treating her like a two bit hussy. He is tearing a piece of his wife's soul to shreds. Whether she realizes it or not.
 
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hannahbeth1124

Guest
#40
Have to ask why was he watching it in first place, was his wife not satisfying him?
I'm really hoping that the answer to this question doesn't decide whether or not it's alright for you. lol