Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?
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Well, I am not surprised you are trying to make this personal instead of dealing with the texts that I have presented that disprove the OSAS proponent's belief that they can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. This is the standard MO for many OSAS believers I have debated with over the years.
James 5:19-20 talks about how the saints can renew a fellow brother or sister back to the faith because they have backslidden into sin. The backslidden believer has erred from the truth; But if a faithful believer converts this backslidden brother or sister back to the faith, they will in effect have helped cover a multitude of their sins and save their soul from death.
If a believer has backslidden into sin (But not have denied Jesus Christ as their Savior), they have a chance to repent or confess of their sin and have a chance at renewing their faith.
Hebrews 6 speaks of apostasy and or a denial of the Lord Jesus Christ while having the Spirit. Please take note that Peter did not have the Spirit when he denied the Lord. The conditions in Hebrews 6 involve denying the Lord while having abided with the Spirit.
James 5:19-20 talks about how the saints can renew a fellow brother or sister back to the faith because they have backslidden into sin. The backslidden believer has erred from the truth; But if a faithful believer converts this backslidden brother or sister back to the faith, they will in effect have helped cover a multitude of their sins and save their soul from death.
If a believer has backslidden into sin (But not have denied Jesus Christ as their Savior), they have a chance to repent or confess of their sin and have a chance at renewing their faith.
Hebrews 6 speaks of apostasy and or a denial of the Lord Jesus Christ while having the Spirit. Please take note that Peter did not have the Spirit when he denied the Lord. The conditions in Hebrews 6 involve denying the Lord while having abided with the Spirit.
Also, folks are confused about the mention of the Law within the New Testament. There are two wrong extremes in misundestanding it.
#1 Wrong Extreme is thinking the Law of Moses is still in effect.
#2 Wrong Extreme is thinking that the moral law (Which is a part of loving your neighbor) is done away with.
Take for example #1: Some believe we have to obey the entire Law of Moses. Honestly, we are not seeking to rebuild the Temple to sacrifice animals again. Neither are we looking to eat unclean animals when Peter was told that he could eat unclean animals. Neither are we to render an eye for an eye anymore. For we are to now turn the other cheek. For no man puts new wine into old wine skins. However, Paul talks about how if we love our neighbor, we fulfill the Law. Does performing certain rituals of the OT mean we are loving our neighbor? Not really. We are under the Commands within the New Testament and not the Old Testament.
Take for example #2: Some believe we can ignore the moral law and still be saved. In fact, many wrongfully equate in not doing evil things such as murder, rape, lying, lusting, hating, stealing, idolatry, and drunkenness as works. But one is not doing any good works by refusing to do evil. One is choosing not to do evil. Not doing evil things is a passive action. Doing good works is a proactive thing. Like preaching the gospel, helping the poor, helping churches, and in using your talents for the kingdom of God. One has to actively do something. That is a work. Not doing evil as mentioned above is not a work. I mean honestly. I shouldn't have to tell you that doing evil is wrong. You should not need a Bible to tell you that. But I appeal to the fact that your country, your soceity, your family would not function properly if there was no sense of Law and justice. Do you think there will be no upholding of any Law and justice in God's Kingdom? How do you know good people from bad people in this world? It's by what they do. No? Or do you think that maybe that axe murderer who killed a bunch of people last week might be saved?
Do you not know that Scripture says if you do not forgive, the Father will not forgive you?
Do you not know that Scripture says that if you take away the words from God's Holy Word, that God will take away your part from out of the book of life? Meaning, your name will not be in it.
For if one can think they can have fellowship and still be saved then why does Jesus tell us He never knew certain professing believers who did many wonderful works for Him? It's because many of them never truly had a right fellowship with Him to begin with. They believed falsely like many others who believe falsely about Jesus and His ways in the many false religions that are out there.
One is saved by God's grace. Not in a religion of doing a bunch of religious things. But if you are saved by God's grace, not doing things that are evil is like the basics for a believer. They will not want to do those things because they are transformed and renewed by the Spirit. If they do mess up, they will confess of their sins. But if a self professing believer thinks they can sin and still be saved and live life however they like, they have another thing coming to them (And it's not good).
For God's people are goood. They are not evil.
#1 Wrong Extreme is thinking the Law of Moses is still in effect.
#2 Wrong Extreme is thinking that the moral law (Which is a part of loving your neighbor) is done away with.
Take for example #1: Some believe we have to obey the entire Law of Moses. Honestly, we are not seeking to rebuild the Temple to sacrifice animals again. Neither are we looking to eat unclean animals when Peter was told that he could eat unclean animals. Neither are we to render an eye for an eye anymore. For we are to now turn the other cheek. For no man puts new wine into old wine skins. However, Paul talks about how if we love our neighbor, we fulfill the Law. Does performing certain rituals of the OT mean we are loving our neighbor? Not really. We are under the Commands within the New Testament and not the Old Testament.
Take for example #2: Some believe we can ignore the moral law and still be saved. In fact, many wrongfully equate in not doing evil things such as murder, rape, lying, lusting, hating, stealing, idolatry, and drunkenness as works. But one is not doing any good works by refusing to do evil. One is choosing not to do evil. Not doing evil things is a passive action. Doing good works is a proactive thing. Like preaching the gospel, helping the poor, helping churches, and in using your talents for the kingdom of God. One has to actively do something. That is a work. Not doing evil as mentioned above is not a work. I mean honestly. I shouldn't have to tell you that doing evil is wrong. You should not need a Bible to tell you that. But I appeal to the fact that your country, your soceity, your family would not function properly if there was no sense of Law and justice. Do you think there will be no upholding of any Law and justice in God's Kingdom? How do you know good people from bad people in this world? It's by what they do. No? Or do you think that maybe that axe murderer who killed a bunch of people last week might be saved?
Do you not know that Scripture says if you do not forgive, the Father will not forgive you?
Do you not know that Scripture says that if you take away the words from God's Holy Word, that God will take away your part from out of the book of life? Meaning, your name will not be in it.
For if one can think they can have fellowship and still be saved then why does Jesus tell us He never knew certain professing believers who did many wonderful works for Him? It's because many of them never truly had a right fellowship with Him to begin with. They believed falsely like many others who believe falsely about Jesus and His ways in the many false religions that are out there.
One is saved by God's grace. Not in a religion of doing a bunch of religious things. But if you are saved by God's grace, not doing things that are evil is like the basics for a believer. They will not want to do those things because they are transformed and renewed by the Spirit. If they do mess up, they will confess of their sins. But if a self professing believer thinks they can sin and still be saved and live life however they like, they have another thing coming to them (And it's not good).
For God's people are goood. They are not evil.
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B
Sin is a work of the flesh and of the old man and we are to put off these works and lay aside the sin and weight that so easily besets us from running the race. To put these off we do so as we would a coat. We lay these things aside because they have nothing to do with what we have been called to be as partakers of the grace of God and ministry of Jesus Christ.We are mandated through grace to walk in the Spirit that we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh which would hinder our fellowship with Christ through the Spirit.
The incorruptible seed is that holy Spirit created in you by God when you believed in his only begotten Son. You received faith through the word of God - Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by [through] the word of God. . . . Being born again, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible by [through] the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:23 We are born again of incorruptible seed through hearing the word of God. And you are correct we cannot be un-born!
"when your temple is rid of sin then will God dwell in it.." God will dwell in those who confess Jesus as Lord and believe that He raised him from the dead - that is when you are born again - remember Jesus Christ came to those who were "sick" not to those who were already "well". "They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick" You don't clean yourself up first . . . "I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." If you could clean yourself up first and on your own - what need do you have of a Savior?
"when your temple is rid of sin then will God dwell in it.." God will dwell in those who confess Jesus as Lord and believe that He raised him from the dead - that is when you are born again - remember Jesus Christ came to those who were "sick" not to those who were already "well". "They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick" You don't clean yourself up first . . . "I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." If you could clean yourself up first and on your own - what need do you have of a Savior?
God is not created in you. God is eternal. God lives in the believer. God is incorruptible. His Word is pure and is not corrupted. It doesn't mean you are not incorruptible. That doesn't make any sense. Just because Adam was created by God and had fellowship with Him does not mean He did not fall away from Him, whereby He needed a Savior. For what makes you different than Adam?
S
I think God knows what is in our hearts - A while back, before i was saved, i thought of my relationship as non-existent with Him. But He stuck His hand out to me and brought me back! He loved me, even though i did not love Him. He saved me, even though i did not know i needed saving. I think the fellowship and relationship we now have is made stronger by my love for Him.
So you are saying that what God has begotten in you can be un-begotten? Before I accepted God - I didn't care how I lived - I had no remorse that is NOT the same for a born again child of God!
If I am in a traffic jam . . . I am getting angry because I am in a hurry. Once the traffic starts moving again - I am in an accident and I die of my injuries - Am I going to hell because I didn't IMMEDIATELY confess that sin?
If I am in a traffic jam . . . I am getting angry because I am in a hurry. Once the traffic starts moving again - I am in an accident and I die of my injuries - Am I going to hell because I didn't IMMEDIATELY confess that sin?
you don't even know scripture ....one can be angry and not sin...
Ephesians 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
your concept of scripture is not based on the truth and thus you have a false sense of security....God is teaching us responsibility what you propose is encouraging irresponsibility.... 1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Ephesians 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
your concept of scripture is not based on the truth and thus you have a false sense of security....God is teaching us responsibility what you propose is encouraging irresponsibility.... 1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
When you are saved - God in Christ dwells in you via the gift of Holy Spirit - that is the "incorruptible" seed born within you and makes you "begotten of God". We are now his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works [Eph. 2:10]. A "new man" has been created in us and that "new man" is after the image of him [God, i.e. Spirit] that created him [the new man; Col. 3:10] which is created in righteousness and true holiness [Eph. 4:24]. That is what makes a born again believer righteous - NOT our flesh. How did we become born again? Through hearing the word of God; we believe what we hear, confess Jesus as Lord, believe God raised him from the dead - we are born again of incorruptible seed. The "new man" that is created in us is incorruptible being made in the image [spirit] of God. That is what makes us different from Adam - the new birth.
When you are saved - God in Christ dwells in you via the gift of Holy Spirit - that is the "incorruptible" seed born within you and makes you "begotten of God". We are now his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works [Eph. 2:10]. A "new man" has been created in us and that "new man" is after the image of him [God, i.e. Spirit] that created him [the new man; Col. 3:10] which is created in righteousness and true holiness [Eph. 4:24]. That is what makes a born again believer righteous - NOT our flesh. How did we become born again? Through hearing the word of God; we believe what we hear, confess Jesus as Lord, believe God raised him from the dead - we are born again of incorruptible seed. The "new man" that is created in us is incorruptible being made in the image [spirit] of God. That is what makes us different from Adam - the new birth.
But we are made righteous by faith in and of Jesus Christ . . . But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.
There is none righteous no not one . . . YOU can do nothing in and of yourself to MAKE yourself righteous - it is God's doing.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
We have been made righteous in the inner man, the new man - born into the family of God. We now begin our walk - we should at all times walk in/by the Spirit but being still in the flesh [old man] we sometimes fail . . . doesn't remove us from the family of God which we have been born into BUT it breaks that fellowship. To restore our fellowship with God, his Son, and the family - we confess that we have sinned and we are restored. Fellowship has to do with our WALK within the family NOT with our salvation.
There is none righteous no not one . . . YOU can do nothing in and of yourself to MAKE yourself righteous - it is God's doing.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
We have been made righteous in the inner man, the new man - born into the family of God. We now begin our walk - we should at all times walk in/by the Spirit but being still in the flesh [old man] we sometimes fail . . . doesn't remove us from the family of God which we have been born into BUT it breaks that fellowship. To restore our fellowship with God, his Son, and the family - we confess that we have sinned and we are restored. Fellowship has to do with our WALK within the family NOT with our salvation.
you have no understanding of scripture and teach a false doctrine...you are saving man without repentance without baptism and the remission of sins and you give the HS contrary to scripture...you also act irresponsible toward the body which is the temple of the HS
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
What knd of fellowship a thief could have the moment he was crucified with Jesus, our Lord? Yet, He said he was to be in the Paradise.
Not eveyone saying: "Lord! Lord!..."
Why that sort of free salvation is sold out lying people to "be saved" without developing a LOVE relatioship with God, the Lord Jesus and His people?
I hope He be near to those who still seek His salvation and love bondage.
Not eveyone saying: "Lord! Lord!..."
Why that sort of free salvation is sold out lying people to "be saved" without developing a LOVE relatioship with God, the Lord Jesus and His people?
I hope He be near to those who still seek His salvation and love bondage.