Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[gb9]

You appear to have a very dark imagination. Why do you dwell on such things? You create fantastic straw men and then with great imaginary valor slay them with your own wisdom. If you repeat the inane things that other people say in the absence of meaningful thought will you not be thought to be the same? Philippians 4:8 Think on things that have virtue in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

right you are. where are all the " people" he keeps talking about on this forum?? now they are in the world no doubt, but I just do see anyone one here saying live however do whatever and still be saved.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

For if there is one thing that gets me really in a state of righteous anger, it is folks condoning a sin and still be saved type doctrine. In other words, I take a dim view in people ignoring basic morality. If you do evil as a way of life, you are the villian in the story of life and not the good guy.

Speaking for myself - I AM NOT CONDONING SIN IN ANY MANNER and especially not as A WAY OF LIFE.

 

[Jason0047]

You seem not to see all the references of WALK in scripture . . .

You are correct - I am not incorruptible - I didn't say that I was incorruptible.

I am still in my flesh, the old man nature, I am still carnal sold under sin.

Yes, you are correct again - the incorruptible seed is God's seed - Spirit.

That is the new man created in righteousness and true holiness [Eph. 4:24], the new man renewed in knowledge after him [God] who created him. [Colossians 3:10] And sometimes we may do things that we really don't want to do which cannot touch that new man, that divine nature [2 Peter 1:4], that incorruptible seed within us - for something that is incorruptible cannot be corrupted.

You do not understand the meaning of being "born" again.

My walk with God - say I am on the highway - this highway has white lines that I should stay between - I am going along fine but then I cross over one of the white lines and I am out of balance until I bring myself back between the lines - that is our walk but NOTHING separates us from the love of Christ. Did I lose my love for God and love for others, my faith in Christ because I crossed over the white line? Think about it - when you sin do you stop loving God? I hope not. God sees our failures and our faults before anything even happens . . . He knows that we are but dirt! He loves us anyway and knows those that are his.

"telling people it is okay that they can think they can be out of fellowship (by sinning) with the thinking they are saved." I hope that others are understanding what I am saying BETTER than you are.

You are ignoring what the text is actually saying, though. You seem to falsely believe that 1 John 1:9 is talking about a walk when no such indication is given to us that this is so. Please explain to me slowly how "cleanse us from all unrighteousness" in relation to confession is about one's walk and not about cleanse us from all unrighteousness or sin. Please take note that John defines the word "unrighteousness" in 1 John 1:9 as "sin" in 1 John 5:17. He says all unrighteousness is sin.

Why are you ignoring these verses? If you are not ignoring them, please explain it to me.

As for your reference to how you are sold under sin in Romans 7:14. You are referencing when Paul was talking about his personal experience as a Jew who kept the Law before he was a Christian in Romans 7. But true Christians are free from the Law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

In other words, how can you be sold under sin if you are free from the law of sin and death? You are either free or not free. Read Romans 6. It talks about how shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul says God forbid.

As for your reference to the new man being just the spiritual: Romans 12:1 says offer your bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God. Verse 2 says be not conformed to this world (Which is physical), but ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good and acceptable and perfect concerning the will of God. For Paul says we are to present three things blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The body, the soul, and the spirit.

As for your reference to me not knowing what it means to be born again: Well, I am afraid you do not understand what born again means if there is no actual change. Caterpillars turn into butterflies. This is a change. In a manner of speaking, they are born again in being a new type of creature that can fly. They are different. Born again figuratively speaking thru the process of metamorphasis. The butterfly is different than the caterpillar. It is new. A person who is born again is the same way. They are not born again if they are not changed or new in any way. They are still the old man if they are living like their old self in sin.

As for your analogy about crossing over the white line: Well, sometimes when you do this, you can hit another car and cause a traffic pile up. One such traffic accident happened really bad not too long ago (on a highway that I drive on) and one of the cars flipped and exploded. Such an accident could be caused by crossing over the white line a little. All it takes is one person not driving right and then people are dying. Granted, if God knows you are struggling with sin and you want to forsake it, and you are sorrowful towards the Lord by confessing it, then that is different. One wants to change and be the new man. But if a person just like doesn't care whether they sin or not, then there is a huge problem. God does not take sin lightly. God is not a respecter of persons just because you have a belief in Him. Sin will still destroy anyone's soul if they do not repent.

As for your reference to being out of fellowship with God with the thinking you are saved: Again, Scripture refutes such thinking. Please read 1 John 5:12, John 17:3, and Romans 8:9.

 

[newbirth]

NO ONE IS ADVOCATING SERVING THE DEVIL . . . I hate sin . . . I LOVE GOD. Do I sin occasionally? Yes I do and so do you. When you sin are you SERVING THE DEVIL [being his servant] or do you STILL LOV GOD and hate what you did? There is a BIG difference here.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
if you work for GM and went against your contract to work a day for Toyota and got injured while working for Toyota...who would you say you were working for when you got injured....??? you cannot serve two masters
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[BradC]

For if there is one thing that gets me really in a state of righteous anger, it is folks condoning a sin and still be saved type doctrine. In other words, I take a dim view in people ignoring basic morality. If you do evil as a way of life, you are the villian in the story of life and not the good guy.

Its seems that you have some serious problems with it in your own life because you never learned how to receive grace in the midst of your own sin and depravity. If one can not receive grace when they sin and they think they have to repent and start over, well, that is not how we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. We walk by faith in the grace of God despite our flesh and any sin that is associated with it. No one wants sin in their life anymore, but we are not going to become radical about and say that unless we confess it we are not saved. Anyone that has that radical idea does not understand the grace of God.

Grace is there when we fail because we stand in it and we get access to that grace by faith. We don't condemn ourselves when we sin and put ourselves under a legalistic doctrine that says if we don't confess it we are not saved any longer. What we first and foremost do is trust in the cross that has already judged that sin through death. We acknowledge our sin and humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God and we are given grace. At this point our fellowship with Christ is restored 100% with no backlash or probation and we can walk, live and be filled with the Spirit with absolutely no condemnation. We were saved through the whole process and we grew in the grace of God because we applied the right approach by faith because of Calvary.

 

[notuptome]

Its seems that you have some serious problems with it in your own life because you never learned how to receive grace in the midst of your own sin and depravity. If one can not receive grace when they sin and they think they have to repent and start over, well, that is not how we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. We walk by faith in the grace of God despite our flesh and any sin that is associated with it. No one wants sin in their life anymore, but we are not going to become radical about and say that unless we confess it we are not saved. Anyone that has that radical idea does not understand the grace of God.

Grace is there when we fail because we stand in it and we get access to that grace by faith. We don't condemn ourselves when we sin and put ourselves under a legalistic doctrine that says if we don't confess it we are not saved any longer. What we first and foremost do is trust in the cross that has already judged that sin through death. We acknowledge our sin and humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God and we are given grace. At this point our fellowship with Christ is restored 100% with no backlash or probation and we can walk, live and be filled with the Spirit with absolutely no condemnation. We were saved through the whole process and we grew in the grace of God because we applied the right approach by faith because of Calvary.

I do believe you are catching on to the truth. God's desire is to forgive but the diabolical one comes and creates bitterness in the heart that we cannot allow forgiveness toward others because we cannot allow ourselves to be forgiven.

We in essence forbid Christ to wash our feet.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

You are extremely judgmental and apparently unable to receive forgiveness. It appears that you are endeavoring to merit Gods forgiveness.

Gods forgiveness in His grace is beyond measure. Gods love for His creation is beyond measure. You cause me to wonder what it is that you got in the matter of salvation because it does not seem to line up with the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is not wrong for me to judge evil behavior. Have you not ever said such and such people are evil for doing such and such bad things before? Jesus said judge not by outward appearances, but judge righteous judgment. In other words, have you ever said Hitler or some other person in History was evil?

Oh, and I am not trying to merit or attain God's grace. I have it right now! A person can have salvation right here and right now. They can be born again spiritually and be a new person in Christ who does not want to sin right here and right now. Confessing your sins to God and forsaking them is the basics of the new man. Oh, and not doing evil as a way of life is not a work. Good works are proactive. Not doing evil is passive. In other words, doing evil is a work. So you are saying that not resisting in doing evil things such as hating, murdering, lusting, lying, etc. is striving to merit salvation?

 

[Jason0047]

Speaking for myself - I AM NOT CONDONING SIN IN ANY MANNER and especially not as A WAY OF LIFE.

But yet you said a believer can be out of fellowship and stil be saved. Obviously being out of fellowship implies that the person has sinned. So such thinking is condoning a sin and still be saved type belief.

 

[Jason0047]

Its seems that you have some serious problems with it in your own life because you never learned how to receive grace in the midst of your own sin and depravity. If one can not receive grace when they sin and they think they have to repent and start over, well, that is not how we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. We walk by faith in the grace of God despite our flesh and any sin that is associated with it. No one wants sin in their life anymore, but we are not going to become radical about and say that unless we confess it we are not saved. Anyone that has that radical idea does not understand the grace of God.

Grace is there when we fail because we stand in it and we get access to that grace by faith. We don't condemn ourselves when we sin and put ourselves under a legalistic doctrine that says if we don't confess it we are not saved any longer. What we first and foremost do is trust in the cross that has already judged that sin through death. We acknowledge our sin and humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God and we are given grace. At this point our fellowship with Christ is restored 100% with no backlash or probation and we can walk, live and be filled with the Spirit with absolutely no condemnation. We were saved through the whole process and we grew in the grace of God because we applied the right approach by faith because of Calvary.

I started to read the first few lines and just stopped. You said that I can receive grace within my sin and depravity. It's sick. Meaning, you don't think I have to change or repent even though Jesus said "repent, or you will all likewise perish." Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery that he did not condemn her, but then he told her to sin no more. Yet, there are many OSAS proponents who ignore these words and they sin as if there is no tomorrow thinking they are saved (When they are not).

The reality of Matthew 7 is even more clear to me now, more than ever.

 

[newbirth]

Its seems that you have some serious problems with it in your own life because you never learned how to receive grace in the midst of your own sin and depravity. If one can not receive grace when they sin and they think they have to repent and start over, well, that is not how we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. We walk by faith in the grace of God despite our flesh and any sin that is associated with it. No one wants sin in their life anymore, but we are not going to become radical about and say that unless we confess it we are not saved. Anyone that has that radical idea does not understand the grace of God.

Grace is there when we fail because we stand in it and we get access to that grace by faith. We don't condemn ourselves when we sin and put ourselves under a legalistic doctrine that says if we don't confess it we are not saved any longer. What we first and foremost do is trust in the cross that has already judged that sin through death. We acknowledge our sin and humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God and we are given grace. At this point our fellowship with Christ is restored 100% with no backlash or probation and we can walk, live and be filled with the Spirit with absolutely no condemnation. We were saved through the whole process and we grew in the grace of God because we applied the right approach by faith because of Calvary.

so what you are saying is one can sin and simply acknowledge the sin and humble them self and all is well....sin is gone ...let me get this straight ....a christian fornicates...he simply has to say is .... Jesus you know I fornicated.... but that's cool you know I trust in the cross and that sin is judged already...so we good...just pour on some grace....I have confidence in you...you restore my soul.....you know the flesh is weak ...so I may be back tomorrow...I may fornicate again or steal....maybe even kill...just giving you a heads up...so you can keep the grace coming...

 

[newbirth]

I started to read the first few lines and just stopped. You said that I can receive grace within my sin and depravity. It's sick. Meaning, you don't think I have to change or repent even though Jesus said "repent, or you will all likewise perish." Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery that he did not condemn her, but then he told her to sin no more. Yet, there are many OSAS proponents who ignore these words and they sin as if there is no tomorrow thinking they are saved (When they are not).

The reality of Matthew 7 is even more clear to me now, more than ever.

don't worry OSAS ...has an ASW....automatic sin wiper

 

[Jason0047]

right you are. where are all the " people" he keeps talking about on this forum?? now they are in the world no doubt, but I just do see anyone one here saying live however do whatever and still be saved.

First, I have talked with many who think they can live like the devil and still be saved (even in this forum). So you do not have all the facts. Second, a person who thinks they can focus on doing good things for God's kingdom and yet keep their pet sins and or enjoy moments of sinful living for a while are deceiving themselves. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. God and sin are two different masters. God is rigteousness; And sin is of the devil. If you do evil at any point in your life and you are not concerned about it because you think it is forgiven, then that can lead a person down the path of unrighteousness and not righteousness. Choose this day whom ye will serve.

 

[Jason0047]

don't worry OSAS ...has an ASW....automatic sin wiper

The thing is that I love them, and I don't want them to think that way. Sin is no joke. Sin put Jesus Christ on the cross. I think we need to pray for them, my friend. Right now.

 

[notuptome]

It is not wrong for me to judge evil behavior. Have you not ever said such and such people are evil for doing such and such bad things before? Jesus said judge not by outward appearances, but judge righteous judgment. In other words, have you ever said Hitler or some other person in History was evil?

Oh, and I am not trying to merit or attain God's grace. I have it right now! A person can have salvation right here and right now. They can be born again spiritually and be a new person in Christ who does not want to sin right here and right now. Confessing your sins to God and forsaking them is the basics of the new man. Oh, and not doing evil as a way of life is not a work. Good works are proactive. Not doing evil is passive. In other words, doing evil is a work. So you are saying that not resisting in doing evil things such as hating, murdering, lusting, lying, etc. is striving to merit salvation?

Believers are able to judge righteous judgments but they are not to judge men unto condemnation. You do not have any biblical authority to condemn another soul to hell.

When believers judge they must do so with love and compassion or they become as tinkling brass. Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 did not judge the persons in open sin to condemnation but that they might be made clear that the church did not condone their sin he put them out of the fellowship.

I do not know why you feel that you must go about judging everyone else with regard to their salvation. I see nothing good coming from this ill advised endeavor. You are only going to provoke others to judge you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

Believers are able to judge righteous judgments but they are not to judge men unto condemnation. You do not have any biblical authority to condemn another soul to hell.

When believers judge they must do so with love and compassion or they become as tinkling brass. Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 did not judge the persons in open sin to condemnation but that they might be made clear that the church did not condone their sin he put them out of the fellowship.

I do not know why you feel that you must go about judging everyone else with regard to their salvation. I see nothing good coming from this ill advised endeavor. You are only going to provoke others to judge you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do not live in urepentant sin, unlike the OSAS proponent. They think they can sin and still be saved. This is evil and wrong and you know it. Oh, and yes. I do have Biblical authority to judge evil behavior. Paul says, do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness (i.e. sin) but rather reprove them. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, correction, and for instruction in righteousness. If you and or others condone sin, I have a right to judge you for falsely thinking that way. I am not judging you for sin that you confessed and forsaken. I am not judging you for a sin that you are striving to overcome thru confession and with the help of God's people. I am judging your false unbiblcal belief that you can sin and still be saved.

 

[Jason0047]

Also, I am not judging on my own authority. It is the Word of God that will condemn you at the Judgment if you think you can sin and still be saved.

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, when you quote OSAS verses to God (Christ) at the Judgment, He is going to quote the same verses that we are telling you that refutes OSAS. For if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. If you hate your brother, then you are a murderer, and we know no murderer has eternal life within them.

 

[newbirth]

Believers are able to judge righteous judgments but they are not to judge men unto condemnation. You do not have any biblical authority to condemn another soul to hell.

When believers judge they must do so with love and compassion or they become as tinkling brass. Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 did not judge the persons in open sin to condemnation but that they might be made clear that the church did not condone their sin he put them out of the fellowship.

I do not know why you feel that you must go about judging everyone else with regard to their salvation. I see nothing good coming from this ill advised endeavor. You are only going to provoke others to judge you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Jason0047]

Jesus never condoned anyone to do sinful things. In fact, Jesus was mad at the Pharisees who appeared outwardly religious but in reality they were hypocrites who did evil things (Making recruits that were even worse than they were).

Matthew 23:17
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

Also, I am not judging on my own authority. It is the Word of God that will condemn you at the Judgment if you think you can sin and still be saved.

also/instead/likewise; it is written that their own words judge themselves; and their actions are judged by what is written in the book(of their deeds - RE in Scripture the book in which everything we do is written in a book, a literal book, yes.)

First, I have talked with many who think they can live like the devil and still be saved (even in this forum). So you do not have all the facts. Second, a person who thinks they can focus on doing good things for God's kingdom and yet keep their pet sins and or enjoy moments of sinful living for a while are deceiving themselves. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. God and sin are two different masters. God is rigteousness; And sin is of the devil. If you do evil at any point in your life and you are not concerned about it because you think it is forgiven, then that can lead a person down the path of unrighteousness and not righteousness. Choose this day whom ye will serve.

yes. this is called the sin of idolatry and/or witchcraft in Scripture. people doing what they think is right in their own eyes. they 'honestly'??? think that they can chose when to obey God and when to disobey God, making themselves a god in place of God - i.e. obeying their own evil desires instead of obeying God Almighty and His Word, by grace through faith in Jesus.

i.e. if IF if IF IF if IF JESUS IS LORD.... then by simple definition and His Word HE IS OBEYED (willingly and joyfully and fully and completely) more to be obeyed than the toughest drill sergeant who ever existed.

as like a little child who willingly and joyfully and fully and completely with adoration and light in his eyes does whatever his true and faithful daddy does and says to do.

a heart of love with no doubt or shadow, cleansed perfectly as always planned by Yahweh, by the BLOOD of the LAMB WHO was SLAIN for our sins.....

so we can (and do) come boldly before His Throne of Grace to receive help in time of trouble (not too hard to imagine 'time of trouble' is it? -- earth is full and fuller and getting fuller of trouble !!)