Revelation 12:4 and "It"
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1 Kings 22:20-23[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
OK so the power of satan basically?
2 Thessalonians 2:7, "7 For the mystery of iniquity is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan..."
So what does the false prophet have to do with the deceiving of "angels" for the false prophet is empowered by satan, the false prophet was not around in the beginning when satan deceived a third of the "angels"...
2 Thessalonians 2:7, "7 For the mystery of iniquity is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan..."
So what does the false prophet have to do with the deceiving of "angels" for the false prophet is empowered by satan, the false prophet was not around in the beginning when satan deceived a third of the "angels"...
Now, I know you meant to insult me and thats okay, I wouldnt hold it against you. I will be very forthright. I am aware that very few might like (or gravitate) to more then just one of my freinds. I do know this and they are often far more accepting of me when I am standing off in a place where no one knows that I know them (or regard them as freinds)
Rather then pulling a Peter (when asked) if I know brother or not, I dont feel repeating Peters denial of a scenario (of anyone) just to avoid being gone after with him, the fact is that I do.
I just refuse to throw either the Lord, an apostle or a freind in Christ under the bus by pretending I dont know them when its the most convenient to do.
I know how it, goes, the moment I come out and acknowledge one as a freind (who they might despise) in the moment they are being so is exactly when comments like that begin to emmerge, and its okay, I get it.
Concerning the same voice however, that would be speaking the same words concerning the same things using the same scriptures but even InSpiritInTruth knows very well I differ on the things he might put forth, and he does with me on things this is no secret at all not even between us.
Where on this thread have I stated I even agreed with anything written here?
But that doesnt mean I dont agree with pieces here and there but Im just not adding it up in the same way he is. Therefore I cant agree with something that remains unclear to me.
He knows this, I can just agree to disagree with those I consider a freind on some of these things.
I do understand that it is not the norm to be able to be good freind with someone you dont share the exact same understanding with but we are.
We might agree on things as anyone else does, but its assumed we speak the same on everything, when his is more slanted far more spiritually speaking then I can accept often.
Now, whether I am wrong or he is that is something yet made manifest to me from the Lord and so I wait, as I go along.
And thats fine by me.
And to Hizi, we arent speaking, but since this is about a picture. Its just an eye, more precisely a womans left eye. Not a man shepherd's right eye plucked out
And I was considering the name first before I had decided on it
I thought ISeeYou was adorable for an eye
Like Peek-A-Boo-I-See-You
I used to play that with my daughter when she was a baby.
Though this was cute to run off of my own
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Even this is cute
Psalm 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Theres more then a few of them.
If someone else doesnt like it, I dont know what to say, I have to live with it now, and I like it, but you cant please everyone so.
Rather then pulling a Peter (when asked) if I know brother or not, I dont feel repeating Peters denial of a scenario (of anyone) just to avoid being gone after with him, the fact is that I do.
I just refuse to throw either the Lord, an apostle or a freind in Christ under the bus by pretending I dont know them when its the most convenient to do.
I know how it, goes, the moment I come out and acknowledge one as a freind (who they might despise) in the moment they are being so is exactly when comments like that begin to emmerge, and its okay, I get it.
Concerning the same voice however, that would be speaking the same words concerning the same things using the same scriptures but even InSpiritInTruth knows very well I differ on the things he might put forth, and he does with me on things this is no secret at all not even between us.
Where on this thread have I stated I even agreed with anything written here?
But that doesnt mean I dont agree with pieces here and there but Im just not adding it up in the same way he is. Therefore I cant agree with something that remains unclear to me.
He knows this, I can just agree to disagree with those I consider a freind on some of these things.
I do understand that it is not the norm to be able to be good freind with someone you dont share the exact same understanding with but we are.
We might agree on things as anyone else does, but its assumed we speak the same on everything, when his is more slanted far more spiritually speaking then I can accept often.
Now, whether I am wrong or he is that is something yet made manifest to me from the Lord and so I wait, as I go along.
And thats fine by me.
And to Hizi, we arent speaking, but since this is about a picture. Its just an eye, more precisely a womans left eye. Not a man shepherd's right eye plucked out
And I was considering the name first before I had decided on it
I thought ISeeYou was adorable for an eye
Like Peek-A-Boo-I-See-You
I used to play that with my daughter when she was a baby.
Though this was cute to run off of my own
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Even this is cute
Psalm 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Theres more then a few of them.
If someone else doesnt like it, I dont know what to say, I have to live with it now, and I like it, but you cant please everyone so.
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The spirit of the lie is what caused man to sin, because man believed it, and it has been around ever since. It bruises the head of the serpents seed so that they cannot see or understand because of the darkness.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
I fear that you may not want to continue if we go off course.
The "elect" convo goes much, much, much deeper my friend. I brought it up, because it DOES effect key prophecy points by how one sees the "elect" and who they are.
So in my defense, I have to clear this up. God has an elect in His people/Israel. You and I are Saved by the blood and our faith in Jesus.
People who teach that we are the "elect" sound more "elitist" than anything, while they should be preaching that EVERYONE stands a chance since the cross. A free gift to be accepted by all. The Book of Life can be looked at like ALL names start there and then He TAKES away our name from the book, if we aren't eventually saved (Rev 3:5 and Rev 22:19) OR it can be looked at like we have to have it written in there at some point of our lives by God through our belief in Christ. (Rev 13:8)
If one is not sure how it is done, then we shouldn't scare those by making it sound like there is an "elect", is all I'm saying on that. Everyone stands a chance at some point. OSAS or 'losing it' both have great arguments. Logically though, I don't think the God Almighty, the creator of all has the Book of Life surrounded by pens, white out and erasers. That is not an elect though, just an all knowing Almighty, knowing how the play of life is going to end.
There are plenty of goofy threads on this. This whole elect thing needs to stop.
We have a definition/and he HAS an "elect" for A PURPOSE, so we should stick to it, and preach it that way.
I apologize for the derail, but I just wanted to see how you were tackling this all at first. So we disagree on this, fine.
You say you want to teach and help guide? That is admirable.
Have you come to learn or just preach though?
I think you are so far off on your thoughts on "the tail" already....that I was wondering if you wanted to explore this or are you so set that what has be revealed to you is the 100% truth?
interpretation of Revelation that is, and all surrounding prophecy?
AntiChrist, Man of Sin, Son of Perdition? The same?
The "elect" convo goes much, much, much deeper my friend. I brought it up, because it DOES effect key prophecy points by how one sees the "elect" and who they are.
So in my defense, I have to clear this up. God has an elect in His people/Israel. You and I are Saved by the blood and our faith in Jesus.
People who teach that we are the "elect" sound more "elitist" than anything, while they should be preaching that EVERYONE stands a chance since the cross. A free gift to be accepted by all. The Book of Life can be looked at like ALL names start there and then He TAKES away our name from the book, if we aren't eventually saved (Rev 3:5 and Rev 22:19) OR it can be looked at like we have to have it written in there at some point of our lives by God through our belief in Christ. (Rev 13:8)
If one is not sure how it is done, then we shouldn't scare those by making it sound like there is an "elect", is all I'm saying on that. Everyone stands a chance at some point. OSAS or 'losing it' both have great arguments. Logically though, I don't think the God Almighty, the creator of all has the Book of Life surrounded by pens, white out and erasers. That is not an elect though, just an all knowing Almighty, knowing how the play of life is going to end.
There are plenty of goofy threads on this. This whole elect thing needs to stop.
We have a definition/and he HAS an "elect" for A PURPOSE, so we should stick to it, and preach it that way.
I apologize for the derail, but I just wanted to see how you were tackling this all at first. So we disagree on this, fine.
You say you want to teach and help guide? That is admirable.
Have you come to learn or just preach though?
I think you are so far off on your thoughts on "the tail" already....that I was wondering if you wanted to explore this or are you so set that what has be revealed to you is the 100% truth?
interpretation of Revelation that is, and all surrounding prophecy?
AntiChrist, Man of Sin, Son of Perdition? The same?
John 9:39-41[SUP]39 [/SUP]And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
If you don't believe the scriptures I gave you concerning who is a true Jew is, or who is truly of Israel, then also won't receive my testimony.
1 Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
1 Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
Revelation 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Revelation 6:4
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Revelation 6:4
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
No problem, glad to help. You might consider these verses here as well.
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
These two (little horns) in Daniel 7 and 8 are not the same things.
a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high;
but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
The (ram) which thou sawest having (two horns) are (the kings of Media (and) Persia).
5And as I was considering, behold, an (he goat) came from the west on the face of the whole earth,
and touched not the ground: and the goat had (a notable horn between his eyes).
And the rough (goat) is (the king of Grecia):
and (the great horn) that is between his eyes is the (first king).
The goat represents the Greco-Macedonian Empire,
and the notable horn stands for its first king— (Alexander the Great).
6And he came to the (ram) that had (two horns), which I had seen standing before the river,
and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram,
and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down
to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Alexander’s empire overwhelmed the Medo-Persians in 331 b.c.,
just as verses 6 and 7 prophesied it would!
8Therefore the he goat waxed very great:
and when he was strong, the great horn was broken;
and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
-The horn that represented the first Grecian king,Alexander, was suddenly broken.
Alexander the Great, at the height of his power, died of fever suddenly while in Babylon.
“Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it,
four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.”
-After Alexander died in 323 b.c., his kingdom was divided into (four major parts),
none of which were as strong as Alexander’s empire, .
9And (out of one of them)came forth a (little horn), which waxed exceeding great,
toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
this little horn in Daniel 8 is: Antiochus Epiphanes.
He was responsible for setting up the abomination of desolation.
In 168 b.c., Antiochus pillaged and desecrated the Jews’ temple in Jerusalem.
Daniel 7 little horn talks about Rome, the forth kingdom.
7After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly;
and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it:
and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;
and it had ten horns.
8I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn,
before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Among the 10 horns in Daniel 7:8 was a “little horn”—
symbolizing the great false church. Three of the 10 horns on
the fourth beast were “plucked up by the roots.” When the
Roman Empire was restored by Justinian in 554, the three
barbarian kingdoms that had ruled its territory since a.d. 476
were “uprooted” and never heard from again.
That left seven horns—
seven resurrections of this world-ruling empire—
to be dominated by the little horn, the great false church.
Thus, the Roman Empire became known as the
Holy Roman Empire.
The seven-headed beast in Revelation 17 specifically addresses
the seven resurrections of the Holy Roman Empire.
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out;
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high;
but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
The (ram) which thou sawest having (two horns) are (the kings of Media (and) Persia).
5And as I was considering, behold, an (he goat) came from the west on the face of the whole earth,
and touched not the ground: and the goat had (a notable horn between his eyes).
And the rough (goat) is (the king of Grecia):
and (the great horn) that is between his eyes is the (first king).
The goat represents the Greco-Macedonian Empire,
and the notable horn stands for its first king— (Alexander the Great).
6And he came to the (ram) that had (two horns), which I had seen standing before the river,
and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram,
and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down
to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Alexander’s empire overwhelmed the Medo-Persians in 331 b.c.,
just as verses 6 and 7 prophesied it would!
8Therefore the he goat waxed very great:
and when he was strong, the great horn was broken;
and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
-The horn that represented the first Grecian king,Alexander, was suddenly broken.
Alexander the Great, at the height of his power, died of fever suddenly while in Babylon.
“Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it,
four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.”
-After Alexander died in 323 b.c., his kingdom was divided into (four major parts),
none of which were as strong as Alexander’s empire, .
9And (out of one of them)came forth a (little horn), which waxed exceeding great,
toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
this little horn in Daniel 8 is: Antiochus Epiphanes.
He was responsible for setting up the abomination of desolation.
In 168 b.c., Antiochus pillaged and desecrated the Jews’ temple in Jerusalem.
Daniel 7 little horn talks about Rome, the forth kingdom.
7After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly;
and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it:
and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;
and it had ten horns.
8I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn,
before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Among the 10 horns in Daniel 7:8 was a “little horn”—
symbolizing the great false church. Three of the 10 horns on
the fourth beast were “plucked up by the roots.” When the
Roman Empire was restored by Justinian in 554, the three
barbarian kingdoms that had ruled its territory since a.d. 476
were “uprooted” and never heard from again.
That left seven horns—
seven resurrections of this world-ruling empire—
to be dominated by the little horn, the great false church.
Thus, the Roman Empire became known as the
Holy Roman Empire.
The seven-headed beast in Revelation 17 specifically addresses
the seven resurrections of the Holy Roman Empire.
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out;
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
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A helpful hint to understand is to try and grasp the concept of what I like to call the opposite reflection. When trying to figure out the imagery given in Revelation it may help some if they first to try to see and understand the image of the True in order to better see and understand the imagery of the false. Just as Satan is opposed to the Truth, which means he is the opposite reflection of the Truth, just as the spirit of a lie is opposed to the Spirit of Truth.
Let me give you a few examples of this opposite reflection. A lie is the opposite reflection of the Truth. Death is the opposite reflection of Life. Evil is the opposite reflection of good. Sin is the opposite reflection of righteousness. Darkness is the opposite reflection of Light. The earthly is the opposite reflection of the heavenly.
The natural is the opposite reflection of the Spiritual. And the spirit of antichrist is the opposite reflection of the Spirit of Christ. So once you can see and understand that, then you can move on to the symbolic imagery given in scripture.
For instance, you have the 3 that bear record in heaven. You have the Father, Word (Son and Lamb of God) and the Holy Spirit. (Spirit of Truth)
And so the opposite reflection of that would be the unholy triune on earth, which would be the red Dragon (father of this world) the scarlet beast (son of his father the devil) and false prophet (spirit of a lie).
And so just as the Lamb of God (Son) is the spiritual inward image of his Father in heaven, (which we are to conform to) then also the beast would be the spiritual inward image of his father the Devil. (Which the world conforms to)
And just as the Lamb of God has a faithful bride, the beast has the opposite of that, which is the harlot.
And just as the Lords Body (Body of Christ) is made up of many members, so also is the beasts body (synagogue of Satan) made up of many members.
And just as those who belong to the Body of Christ have the mark of the indwelling of Gods Spirit (seal in their foreheads) and Word written in their hearts. So also do the sons of that Wicked who worship their father the Devil (Prince of this world) have his mark sealed upon their hearts and minds (heart and mind of a natural beast).
We also see in Revelation there are 4 good beasts in heaven, but we also see the opposite reflection in the 4 evil earthly beasts shown in the book of Daniel.
We see in Revelation a Lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes, (7 spirits of God) and then we see the opposite reflection of that with the red Dragon with 7 heads and 7 crowns. (7 evil spirits)
We have the Lamb that lives, and was dead, but is alive forever more. And we have the opposite reflection of that with the beast that was, and is not, and yet is, who also goes into eternal destruction.
So to better understand the imagery of darkness, just think opposite of the Light.
Let me give you a few examples of this opposite reflection. A lie is the opposite reflection of the Truth. Death is the opposite reflection of Life. Evil is the opposite reflection of good. Sin is the opposite reflection of righteousness. Darkness is the opposite reflection of Light. The earthly is the opposite reflection of the heavenly.
The natural is the opposite reflection of the Spiritual. And the spirit of antichrist is the opposite reflection of the Spirit of Christ. So once you can see and understand that, then you can move on to the symbolic imagery given in scripture.
For instance, you have the 3 that bear record in heaven. You have the Father, Word (Son and Lamb of God) and the Holy Spirit. (Spirit of Truth)
And so the opposite reflection of that would be the unholy triune on earth, which would be the red Dragon (father of this world) the scarlet beast (son of his father the devil) and false prophet (spirit of a lie).
And so just as the Lamb of God (Son) is the spiritual inward image of his Father in heaven, (which we are to conform to) then also the beast would be the spiritual inward image of his father the Devil. (Which the world conforms to)
And just as the Lamb of God has a faithful bride, the beast has the opposite of that, which is the harlot.
And just as the Lords Body (Body of Christ) is made up of many members, so also is the beasts body (synagogue of Satan) made up of many members.
And just as those who belong to the Body of Christ have the mark of the indwelling of Gods Spirit (seal in their foreheads) and Word written in their hearts. So also do the sons of that Wicked who worship their father the Devil (Prince of this world) have his mark sealed upon their hearts and minds (heart and mind of a natural beast).
We also see in Revelation there are 4 good beasts in heaven, but we also see the opposite reflection in the 4 evil earthly beasts shown in the book of Daniel.
We see in Revelation a Lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes, (7 spirits of God) and then we see the opposite reflection of that with the red Dragon with 7 heads and 7 crowns. (7 evil spirits)
We have the Lamb that lives, and was dead, but is alive forever more. And we have the opposite reflection of that with the beast that was, and is not, and yet is, who also goes into eternal destruction.
So to better understand the imagery of darkness, just think opposite of the Light.