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K
kennethcadwell
Guest
You keep wanting to deny the words; fall away, forsaken, gone astray, did not continue, and so on......
A person can not do any of those things unless they were a part of what they left to begin with, and if you go and look at Galatians as I gave before. Peter and the others taught the Galatians how to properly be in the faith, and then false teachers crept in and lead them astray to trying to be justified by the law. Paul calls our Peter for letting this happen, and then tells the Galatians because they have turned from Christ back to justification by the law. Christ has become of no effect to them, and they have fallen from His saving grace !!!
F
forsha
Guest
Save, salvation, saved, is defined as a deliverance. Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to timely deliverances and not eternal deliverance. The scriptures do not contradict them selves.l
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
That part right there that I highlighted sums it all up.
People want to act one of two ways; either they can continue to do whatever they want, or that with the Holy Spirit's guidance they are taught they still can not abstain from sins. Both of which are false.
One's actions do play a pivotal role in ones salvation, and for one to say any different is not getting their info on salvation from the bible. For instance until one repents and is baptized they do not receive remission (Acts 2:38) of their past and present sins at the time from the Lord (Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9), and then on future sins confession is made to receive that remission (1 John 1:9).
From there we have to walk accordingly by the Spirit, and I would post what scriptures but this is mentioned all throughout Paul's epistles and in Hebrews. If one tells you, you can continue to walk in the same sin/s day in and day out is preaching a false doctrine. Same as those who say we can not abstain from sins, even with the Holy Spirits guidance. See my post #94. Same goes if somebody tells you the 10 Commandments or anything the Lord said in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John do not apply to us. Run from them !!! (Romans 13:9-14)
No. . .those words describe the apostate, one who was once part of the fellowship, and then left.
You can be a part of reformed practices, but not be a part of the transformed new creatures.
Scripture often speaks of professors of faith, who are not possessors of true faith,
as being in the kingdom but not of the kingdom, such as the tares
(Mt 13; Jn 8:30-31, 44, 15:2, 6 ; Gal 5:4; Heb 6:4-6, 10:29).
They have fallen from the belief of salvation by grace through faith
into the unbelief of salvation by works.
In so doing, they have placed themselves outside the scope of divine favor, because
gaining God's favor by law keeping and receiving it by grace are mutually exclusive.
Paul is warning these Galatians that they have fallen
from their secure position of salvation by grace (2Pe 3:17)
into salvation by works, which brings only condemnation, never salvation.
The regenerate (born again) will heed his warning and be saved,
the unregenerate will not and will follow their false Judaizing teachers into condemnation.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Your right the scriptures do not contradict themselves, the problem is that those who do not understand the origin of the words believe and salvation in the Greek and how they are applied. As the Greek words used are pisteuó and echo.
Pisteuo - means to be persuaded to have assurance of receiving it.
Echo - means to have as a mental possession, and not a physical possession yet.
So if you take those into account we have a mental assurance of receiving salvation as long as we continue to walk properly in His ways. Obedience plays a clear part in how one walks, as it is mention multiple times throughout the NT. Showing that one's free will is not taken away, one still has the choice to receive His guidance or not.....
If you have obeyed the milk of the word they you receive the Holy Spirit, if you then and go and deny His power and authority working in you to keep you from uncleanness then you have denied the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
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3Scoreand10
Guest
I have a few questions for those who believe you can lose your salvation.
What sin will cause you to lose your salvation?
Have you ever lost your salvation?
How many times have you been saved?
In my fifty years of questioning those who teach a person can lose their salvation, I have never met anyone who has confesed to losing their salvation and having to be saved again.
I don't know if they are dishonest, or just PERFECT?
What sin will cause you to lose your salvation?
Have you ever lost your salvation?
How many times have you been saved?
In my fifty years of questioning those who teach a person can lose their salvation, I have never met anyone who has confesed to losing their salvation and having to be saved again.
I don't know if they are dishonest, or just PERFECT?
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
That is an easy question as the bible answers this;
It says in the bible that any willful sin that you continue to walk in will keep you from salvation. The only way to have salvation is not to walk in willful sin, and to repent and confess the ones you have done to receive remission from the Lord for them. If no repentance or confession is made, and you make no effort to turn away and stop committing that sin will keep you from salvation.......... The Holy Spirit will guide you through all things, and keep you from sins controlling you again if you let Him.....
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3Scoreand10
Guest
You're describing a person who has not received New Life in Christ and using an Old Testament example. The premise is flawed on at least two levels.
A more accurate scenario would be this:
Say you have a young child, who you have loved well, is abducted.
The Abductor tells your child all kinds of lies about how you view them and about how you really weren't pleased with them and that you don't really love them for whatever reasons the Abductor comes up with - all lies, of course, but believable enough to young, impressionable ears and a tender heart.
The child grows up, having been lied to and abused by the Abductor for years and years.
You locate the now adult child, and wish to have relationship with them again, but the adult child, having been fed lies about you and your feelings toward them for years, wants nothing to do with you.
From your end, as the parent - the one who truly DOES and ALWAYS HAS loved the child and never stopped looking for that child - do you then reject the now adult child who has been lied to all his life or do you purpose to show them who you REALLY are and love them anyway?
What if you find them, but they're dead? Did they ever cease to be your child? Did you ever stop loving them?
____________________________________________
That's a more accurate picture (unfortunately) of how things often go down in the Body of Christ. Someone hears the Gospel - and it's Good News! God loves you, has forgiven all your sins, and you have New Life in Him!
And then an abductor comes with their Jesus + equations, putting laws and principles and rules on the young believer (the Ministry of Death - see 2 Cor. 3), telling them that now that they're saved, they better do thus and so, or God will not be pleased with them.
Instead of building the new believer up in who they are in Christ (ministering LIFE to them), being patient to let God do HIS thing in the new believer and produce HIS Fruit in and through them (Fruit does take time, yes?).
So the performance-minded 'teacher' might be judging the sapling for not producing fruit. Or judging a tree for not showing fruit as quickly as a bean plant.
Fruit takes time, and in God's economy, HE is the One Who produces the Fruit, not us - we bear it - by resting in Him.
Check out this list:
[TABLE="class: pad-md"]
[TR]
[TD]Fruit Tree Type[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]Years Until Fruit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Apple Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Apricot Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Banana Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Cherry Trees (sour)[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]3-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Cherry Trees (sweet)[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]4-7 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Citrus Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Fig Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Mulberry Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Nectarine Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Olive Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Pawpaw Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]5-7 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Peach Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Pear Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]4-6 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Persimmon Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]3-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Plum Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]3-6 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Consider this:
More than 100 species of oak trees exist, so the time frame it requires for an oak to reach maturity to bear acorns depends on the specific species in question. However, the majority of oaks require at least 20 years before they are capable of producing an acorn. Peak production typically occurs as the oak grows to an age of between 50 and 80 years old, while most oaks begin to taper off production of the acorn once they have survived for more than eight decades.
(Read more : How Long Before an Oak Tree Reaches Maturity to Bear Acorns? | eHow)
So some believers might be more like the Oak tree, while some are more like this:
[TABLE="class: pad-md"]
[TR]
[TD]Berry Plant Type[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]Years Until Fruit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Aronia Berry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Blackberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Blueberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Boysenberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Cranberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Currant Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Elderberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Goji Berry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Gooseberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]3-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Grape Vines (& Muscadines)[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Honeyberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Kiwi Berry Vines (“Hardy Kiwi”)[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Jostaberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Lingonberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Loganberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Marionberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Raspberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Seaberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221"]Strawberry Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
. . . or even like common vegetables that we grow in our summer gardens that produce lots of fruit quickly, in a matter of weeks, like beans, tomatoes, and zucchini squash.
So many performance-centered believers judge Oak trees for not being strawberries or zucchinis. And then they put death instead of Life on them, and wonder why some believers don't want anything to do with God after a time.
Then we come back to the scenario of the abducted, lied-to child.
What part may you be playing?
-JGIG
E
elf3
Guest
Kaycie, I gave already some reply but no answer to your Question. Yes, I would agree, he will still be saved!!
To be saved is not a question of our livestyle or our heaviness of sin. If i understand god´s word than is sin sin, dosent matter how big or small. In the first time many jewish believers lived in Jerusalem and claimed: you must belive in Jesus plus hold the law. They were named Judaist. Paul said this thinking is wrong. Only our faith in the Lord saves us. because of grace. If we say we have to believe in Jesus and also live a holy life for to be saved. We are as like this Judaists. That we will be saved is only an act which the Lord Jesus did for us. We have nothing to add! You will find in Romans from chapter 3 ff
Because of this this christian will be saved.
Second, if we believe in Jesus, we have the right to be called children of god. John 1,12. I am father from 4 children. They will be my children if they follow Jesus ore not, if they will become terrorist ore something really famous. They will still be my children. So I believe we are gods children for ever, adoptet from Him.
How we as christian should live is another big question.
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3Scoreand10
Guest
Don't worry...they will say you can loose it and then deny they have ever lost it and then when they do own up to their own doctrine cannot explain Hebrews and how it teaches it is IMPOSSIBLE to be renewed unto salvation......If it could be lost it could not be regained and if lost by sin then ALL WILL COOK as ALL SIN!
since you cannot lose your salvation you are already perfect....then there is no need to do this....
2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
These questions just always seem strange to me. It's a bit like asking "if a lawn mower, having been bought, decided to vomit rainbows, would it still, in the end, be used to cut lawns?" It's just an extraordinary hypothetical where the one doesn't have a lot to do with the other. In this case, hypothesising about a saved Christian who explicitly decided they will do whatever they like and will commit every kind of sin is empty imagination, and requires assent to a premise that no one here will or should accept.
In other words, I think the question is at best irrelevant, at worst mistaken, in all cases loaded.
what happens when you don't follow....????and some don't know what follow means...
1 Peter 2:20-22King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
E
elf3
Guest
If you don't follow then I would say it's safe to say you were never saved to begin with. Reason? No on can fall from His hands. If we actually feel that we can fall from the hands of Jesus then according to John 10:27-30 God can lie. So can God lie or are we held safe in the hands of Jesus once we have the saving faith in Jesus? It's a one or the other it cannot be both.