Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[eternally-gratefull]

My "fraud" and "heretic" comment at the end pertained specifically to Walid Shoebat and, like I said, both charges can be easily proven. It is also true that I referred to kennethcaldwell as a teacher of heresy...because that is exactly what he is teaching in this thread. Now, if you feel that you can prove the alleged "error" in my post, then go right ahead. If not, then I'll just dismiss your post as meaningless.

dude, When you charge one who disagrees with you as heresy, You have already destroyed any chance of any meaningful discussion.

it would be very easy to destroy your argument, But as I said, your eyes are closed. you already consider me a heretic. so there is nothing to discuss.

In reality, your post is meaningless, because you have closed all doors to any discussion.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

dude, When you charge one who disagrees with you as heresy, You have already destroyed any chance of any meaningful discussion.

it would be very easy to destroy your argument, But as I said, your eyes are closed. you already consider me a heretic. so there is nothing to discuss.

In reality, your post is meaningless, because you have closed all doors to any discussion.

IOW, you cannot substantiate what you claimed? That's what I thought. As such, I'll not allow you to waste even another second of my time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IOW, you cannot substantiate what you claimed? That's what I thought. As such, I'll not allow you to waste even another second of my time.

lol, you already wasted my time. but we can play the game with just a few questions.

who is the woman of rev 13? protected by God

who is her offspring in rev 13? persecuted by satan?

how can the temple merchandise be what makes the people rich? when that was taken by rome in 70 ad and destroyed, sold to build the Colosseum?

How can God llow Jersualem to be destroyed, when it is already desolate according to daniel 9? it was destroyed in 70 ad. and is still in shambles.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

lol, you already wasted my time. but we can play the game with just a few questions.

I'm not "playing games", friend.

who is the woman of rev 13? protected by God

who is her offspring in rev 13? persecuted by satan?

???

Revelation chapter 13

[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[9] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

What "woman"? What "offspring"? Would you care to try again?

how can the temple merchandise be what makes the people rich? when that was taken by rome in 70 ad and destroyed, sold to build the Colosseum?

Who said anything about the temple merchandise which was taken in 70 A.D.? Is it possible that your reading comprehension skills are that bad? Here's what I mentioned:

Revelation chapter 18

[9] And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
[10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

How can God llow Jersualem to be destroyed, when it is already desolate according to daniel 9? it was destroyed in 70 ad. and is still in shambles.

Daniel chapter 9

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "desolation" which Daniel forewarned of hasn't taken place yet and it won't transpire until "the abomination of desolation" is set up during the midway point of Daniel's 70th week and this can easily be proven from scripture.

You really are confused, aren't you?

I'm gonna grab some breakfast...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not "playing games", friend.

Yes you are. Your not here to discuss the word. your hear to condemn people.

???

excuse me revelation 12. Further proof you are playing games, if you knew anything at all about revelation the woman and her offspring, you would have known what I was talking about.


[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who said anything about the temple merchandise which was taken in 70 A.D.? Is it possible that your reading comprehension skills are that bad? Here's what I mentioned:

Revelation chapter 18

[9] And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
[10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


Daniel chapter 9

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "desolation" which Daniel forewarned of hasn't taken place yet and it won't transpire until "the abomination of desolation" is set up during the midway point of Daniel's 70th week and this can easily be proven from scripture.

You really are confused, aren't you?

I'm gonna grab some breakfast...

No, your confused.

and now being deceptive.

this is what you said.

If need be, then I'll gladly show you how everything on that list pertains to things, people or animals WHICH PERTAIN TO TEMPLE SACRIFICE/MAINTENANCE. Gee, I cannot imagine where the Bible says that the temple is normally located, can you? Mecca? Nah. Saudi Arabia? Nah. Rome? Nah. New York City (for those on the lunatic fringe)? Nah.

so again, How can those things be related to the temple. if they were taken and destroyed in AD 70?

Those things are a part of every religious cult. especially paganism, from which the term harlot is referring to.

The harlot is Pagan. Not Christian or jewish.

The jews PLAYED THE HARLOT with pagan Gods. it caused their destruction.

They then rejected her messiah, because they misinterpreted the law. And it caused 70 AD to occure (they were not practicing pagan rites then, they shuned them, they went from one extreme to the next. and missed both times)

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Yes you are. Your not here to discuss the word. your hear to condemn people.

Really?

I suppose that that's why I've spent about the last 6 weeks here "discussing the Word" with people, even as I've been doing right here on this thread, right?

I suppose that that's also why I've received 222 "likes" already for my posts, multiple positive "reputations" and why some people have taken the time to thank me via PM for my participation in this forum, right?

I also suppose that that's why this younger brother in the Lord took the time to publicly thank me JUST YESTERDAY for helping him to OVERCOME "condemnation" and "guilt", right?

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...uilty-conscience-need-escape.html#post1859810

Here's the post that he thanked me for:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...uilty-conscience-need-escape.html#post1858646

It's just loaded with "condemnation", right?

Incidentally, you're the one whose been trying to "condemn" me, but you're wasting the time, Satan.

Anyhow, this thread's not about me, so you can just continue on with your ad hominems if choose to do so and I'll just go back to "discussing the Word" with people from hereon.

excuse me revelation 12. Further proof you are playing games, if you knew anything at all about revelation the woman and her offspring, you would have known what I was talking about.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I did figure that that is what you were talking about, but I left it for you to clarify just in case.

Anyhow, here's a fuller context of your quote in the KJV:

Revelation chapter 12

[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And...???

The "woman" is Israel and "the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" will be "the remnant" of believing Jews who hearken to Jesus' command to "flee to the mountains" when they see "the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place":

Matthew chapter 24

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand);
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

What of it?

If you'd like to see how the events described in Revelation chapter 12 coincide perfectly with prophecies of Daniel and with Jesus' Olivet discourse, then I'd refer you to the following post which I made on another thread about 3 weeks ago:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/104781-war-heaven.html#post1822372

No, your confused.

Nope, that would still be you.

and now being deceptive.

Again, the deception is on your part.

this is what you said.

If need be, then I'll gladly show you how everything on that list pertains to things, people or animals WHICH PERTAIN TO TEMPLE SACRIFICE/MAINTENANCE. Gee, I cannot imagine where the Bible says that the temple is normally located, can you? Mecca? Nah. Saudi Arabia? Nah. Rome? Nah. New York City (for those on the lunatic fringe)? Nah.

so again, How can those things be related to the temple. if they were taken and destroyed in AD 70?

Those things are a part of every religious cult. especially paganism, from which the term harlot is referring to.

The harlot is Pagan. Not Christian or jewish.

The jews PLAYED THE HARLOT with pagan Gods. it caused their destruction.

They then rejected her messiah, because they misinterpreted the law. And it caused 70 AD to occure (they were not practicing pagan rites then, they shuned them, they went from one extreme to the next. and missed both times)

Yes, and...???

What is it about "EVERYTHING ON THAT LIST" that you don't understand?

Again, here is "that list":

Revelation chapter 18

[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

Everything on "that list" can be shown to be used in A TEMPLE or in relation to TEMPLE ACTIVITIES and the Bible does foretell of a coming temple IN JERUSALEM.

Seriously, some of you people seem to not only be ignorant of what the book of Revelation actually teaches, but of the whole Bible in general. IOW, the Bible talks about two different Israels and two different Jerusalems throughout its pages and we're to suddenly believe that the Bible is capped off with a great discourse on Saudi Arabia, America or some other nonsense.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

And some how twist the martyr's of Jesus to those who killed Jesus, when this is just saying those who die in His name.

You really should either improve on your reading comprehension skills or just stop lying about me as I've never said or even implied any such thing and this isn't the first time that I'm calling you out on this. What is it about "Thou shalt not bear false witness" that you don't understand? In fact, it is YOU who are "twisting" my words, so you really ought to repent of the same.

 

[Atwood]

right, kind of like when Jesus said, "you are a city set on a hill".

Don't bother with figurative or spiritual understandings.

Well, Socrates, it seems to me to be hermeneutical blunder to have a symbol explained in the Bible, then yourself to go & try to explain the explanation as a 3rd figurative meaning. The figure is
a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored beast.

The explanation in scripture reiterated over & over, is that this woman is a city. Now it is a blunder then to make the city figurative again.

The further figure is having seven heads.
The explanation of that figure is
"The seven heads are seven mountains/hills , on which the woman sits: and they are seven kings."

As to the mountains, they are an explanation of the figure = 7 heads.

Now having received an explanation, it is hermeneutical folly to then make the explanation figurative & look for a figurative interpretation of the explanation.

Figure of woman is explained as a city. The woman is a figure, the city is a literal explanation.
Figure of the 7 heads is explained as 7 mountains/hills. The heads are the figure, the explanation is literal.

Rome is a literal city on 7 hills, proverbial description.

"the woman whom thou sawest is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

How can this be anything other than the City of Rome?

Moreover, there is nothing religious in the description of this woman. If she were condemned for adultery, you might want to try to make that figurative of religion. But the term is fornication, not adultery. And the emphasis of the passage is commerce, not religion.

 

[kennethcadwell]

One thing never mentioned in Revelation is "America." The non-mention to me is significant. Next will you argue from the Olivet Discourse (mat 24 & parallels) that the eagles mean the USA in that eschatological passage? And of course it refers to the Americans loving & kissing cars when it says "carcass."

Atwood every time an animal is listed in prophecy it stands for a kingdom, one exception would be satan as the dragon.
And in Revelation 12 it says Israel was given wings of a great eagle to protect them. Well guess what, America is a great nation that its symbol is the eagle.

 

[Atwood]

the Bible talks about two different Israels

It speaks of the physical descendants of Jacob &
secondly about a smaller group within that group, those who are elect in Jacob.

But it is well to observe that the Church is never called Israel.

 

[kennethcadwell]

My "fraud" and "heretic" comment at the end pertained specifically to Walid Shoebat and, like I said, both charges can be easily proven. It is also true that I referred to kennethcaldwell as a teacher of heresy...because that is exactly what he is teaching in this thread. Now, if you feel that you can prove the alleged "error" in my post, then go right ahead. If not, then I'll just dismiss your post as meaningless.

And that is not your call to make when it comes to biblical prophecy teaching, as I can say the same back to you as I have mentioned in the past. To call Jerusalem Babylon is a way of cursing them, and the bible clearly says to curse them you will be cursed. We are to bless Israel, and not curse them......
You can not have a place that the bible says is destroyed by the anitchrist, in place of an area that the bible says the antichrist will never prevail against and destroy. The Lord comes back before that happens.

 

[Atwood]

Atwood every time an animal is listed in prophecy it stands for a kingdom, one exception would be satan as the dragon.
And in Revelation 12 it says Israel was given wings of a great eagle to protect them. Well guess what, America is a great nation that its symbol is the eagle.

The Bible never symbolizes the USA as an eagle. Neither does the Bible endorse what symbols the USA chooses for itself. Neither does the Bible mean USA when it speaks of Samuel (Sam -- but not Uncle Sam). I don't see that when the Bible calls a nation an animal that it is an animal that the nation chose for its symbol. For example, in Dan 2 nations are symbolized with metals, big head of gold, etc, which corresponds to what the earthy King Neb saw. But God calls them beasts in Dan 7, God's POV. I don't see anything complementary when God makes a prediction about a nation calling it an animal.

Beware of speculative & newspaper exegesis.

Deut 28 has no USA: "Jehovah will bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

Ezek 17 does not speak of the USA:

Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: A great eagle with great wings and long pinions, full of feathers, which had divers colors, came unto Lebanon, and took the top of the cedar:


There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend its roots toward him, and shot forth its branches toward him, from the beds of its plantation, that he might water it.

Rev 8 does not speak of the USA:


13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle, flying in mid heaven, saying with a great voice, Woe, woe, woe, for them that dwell on the earth, by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, who are yet to sound.

What leads you to suppose that a kingdom is flying in the air?

BTW, the USA is not & never has been a kingdom.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You really should either improve on your reading comprehension skills or just stop lying about me as I've never said or even implied any such thing and this isn't the first time that I'm calling you out on this. What is it about "Thou shalt not bear false witness" that you don't understand? In fact, it is YOU who are "twisting" my words, so you really ought to repent of the same.

Well I am sorry but you and one other I seen on here have said the scriptures say that the bible says Babylon is the place where Jesus was crucified, and the only scripture given to support this ideal of yours was Revelation 17:6. So by me saying that the martyr's of Jesus is not saying where Jesus was crucified, as it is saying all that die in His name is not bearing false witness my friend. To bare false witnesses means you claim something the person never said or did as if they did it. You did say the bible refers to the place where Jesus was crucified, and gave Revelation 17:6 for that. I pointed out how that was not the case.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The Bible never symbolizes the USA as an eagle. Neither does the Bible endorse what symbols the USA chooses for itself. Neither does the Bible mean USA when it speaks of Samuel (Sam -- but not Uncle Sam). I don't see that when the Bible calls a nation an animal that it is an animal that the nation chose for its symbol. For example, in Dan 2 nations are symbolized with metals, big head of gold, etc, which corresponds to what the earthy King Neb saw. But God calls them beasts in Dan 7, God's POV. I don't see anything complementary when God makes a prediction about a nation calling it an animal.

Beware of speculative & newspaper exegesis.

Deut 28 has no USA: "Jehovah will bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

Ezek 17 does not speak of the USA:

Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: A great eagle with great wings and long pinions, full of feathers, which had divers colors, came unto Lebanon, and took the top of the cedar:


There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend its roots toward him, and shot forth its branches toward him, from the beds of its plantation, that he might water it.

Rev 8 does not speak of the USA:


13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle, flying in mid heaven, saying with a great voice, Woe, woe, woe, for them that dwell on the earth, by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, who are yet to sound.

What leads you to suppose that a kingdom is flying in the air?

BTW, the USA is not & never has been a kingdom.

Let me show you and example, as this does not go along with past biblical prophecy teachers.
Yet the bible even in Daniel says that he was told to seal up the books of the prophecies he was given to the end, and then they will be opened and revealed. So let me show you something that has been opening the eyes of prophetic teachers within the past 10 years...........

Daniel 7


The first beast is the Lion with eagle wings that pulled away and stood up to stand like a man
Lion = Great Britain Eagle wings = America
As the U.S. states broke away from Great Britain back in 1776, and our other symbol is that of a man; Uncle Sam.....


The second beast is the Bear
Bear = Russia
Russia has been trying to devour the world in its communism for the longest time, and is on the rise to do it again now....


The third beast is the Leopard with four heads and with wings of a fowl
Leopard = Germany Fowl = France
Germany has risen to power in a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Reich's and is now slowly rebuilding a 4th Reich (4 heads). The wings of Fowl of course is there oldest allies in France (Franco-German Pact)


Of course the 4th beast is the revised holy Roman empire that we can see coming to a rise in the EU now days.............

 

[kennethcadwell]

History of the Kingdom of the United States (The Kingdom of the United States) - Alternative History


Plus I wanted to add this article since you said the U.S. has never been considered a kingdom.............

 

[john832]

It speaks of the physical descendants of Jacob &
secondly about a smaller group within that group, those who are elect in Jacob.

But it is well to observe that the Church is never called Israel.

Except for here...

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[Atwood]

Let me show you and example

Nonsense, Kenneth. The beast of Dan 7 are parallel to the metals in Dan 2.

The following is a sane, historically appropriate interp of Dan 7:

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon two feet as a man; and a man’s heart was given to it.

That is Nebuchadnezzar/Babylon. He was proud, sailing high, but he was made insane (Dan 4), then recovered.

5 And, behold, another beast, a second, like to a bear; and it was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

This is Media-Persia (Persia being the higher side). The 3 ribs are 3 nations it whipped: Egypt, Babylon, & Lydia. Russia is not mentioned nor was Russia succeeded by Alex the Great.

6 After this I beheld, and, lo, another, like a leopard, which had upon its back four wings of a bird; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

This is the Greco-Macedonian empire headed by Alex the Great. After his death it split into 4 kingdoms, elaborated in Dan 8 & Dan 11.


7 After this I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, a fourth beast, terrible and powerful, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

This is Rome & Rome in its latter form.




17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, that shall arise out of the earth.

The USA has never been a kingdom nor had a king -- notwithstanding any current abuse of exec orders.

 

[Atwood]

Except for here...

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Gal 6 does not have the word "Church" in it. It is no proof text for a 3rd use of Israel. The verse does not give the definition of "the Israel of God" as "Church." Israel of God here means those descendants of Jacob who Israelites and are elect (sub-set of Jacob). You may not insist that the word "and" here is epexegetical.

 

[Sophia]

And that is not your call to make when it comes to biblical prophecy teaching, as I can say the same back to you as I have mentioned in the past. To call Jerusalem Babylon is a way of cursing them, and the bible clearly says to curse them you will be cursed. We are to bless Israel, and not curse them......
You can not have a place that the bible says is destroyed by the anitchrist, in place of an area that the bible says the antichrist will never prevail against and destroy. The Lord comes back before that happens.

Rev 11 says where the great city is.

And yes, the Jews ARE cursed in this dispensation, as they are hardened by God. Is God cursed for cursing them?

The antichrist will turn against the Harlot, but will not overcome true Jerusalem, which is not of this world.

 

[Atwood]

Rev 11 says where the great city is.

And yes, the Jews ARE cursed in this dispensation, as they are hardened by God. Is God cursed for cursing them?

I can see that one could call the judicial hardening a curse, but I don't know that we should say that the judicial hardening is a curse here. You may say that Israel is hardened in favor of gentiles now -- but that is done to make Israel jealous & effect Israel's ultimate salvation.