Will you listen to what God has to say about OSAS? Just scriptures?

[notuptome]

First, again, your experience is not reality. Just call around your area and ask the various churches in what they believe. I have talked with many people both online and in person. OSAS is not the narrow road. It is the wide gate belief. Most big named Pastors today believe in Eternal Security. Doing evil with the thinking you are saved is the wide gate belief here in the States; And it is becoming ever the more popular in other countries. Second, logic should tell you that if there is no real consequence that matters in breaking a Law, then people are going to break that Law. It's not rocket science. Most people would not break the speed limit on the highway if it involved serious imprisonment and extreme fines. Telling people that they cannot lose their salvation gives them the green light to sin until the cows come home with the thinking they are saved. You don't need to insult me. You know it's true. For the Scriptures say, be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Pompous hardly begins to describe it. To ascribe to the children of God so much evil is sheer folly.

There are many parts in the body. Some are in churches you would fear to enter. Some live in environments and circumstances you cannot imagine.

You lift yourself up to put others down. That is not right. If you are so high and lofty then stoop down and extend a hand to those who still struggle in areas where you have obviously become a victor.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Attacking me is not going to help you justify a doctrine in telling folks they can do evil while thinking they are saved.

See. Who just attacked. Not one place in my post did I say anyone can do evil and still be saved.

it is obvouse you do not read anythign anyone says.

As for your question: We are talking about the Bible. We are not on Facebook (Of which I do not agree with) so as to share my personal life with the world. So I will answer you in a third person way. Is every Christian sinless? No, of course not. David had committed adultery and murder. But the difference here is that he did not continue to murder and continue to commit adultery. David was a man after God's own heart so David repented of his sins. No great man of God was ever justified in doing evil before the Lord.

So your sin is not as bad as someone elses sin, is that what your saying?

Yes, we are talking about the bible. what does the bibe say?

Any one who sins (habitually) has never seen God or known him. Any one born of God can not sin (habitually) because they are born of God.

you must read a different bible. or skip over passages which does not support your view.

and again, why are you excusing your own sin, and judging everyone elses? And you wonder why people say you sound like the pharisee.

 

[Jason0047]

he is thinking there are two gospels going around. and there is only one gospel which will save. So he is thinking some are headed to hell. and some are headed to heaven, and he needs to save the ones headed to hell

Speaking of two gospels. I dealt with many MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalists) at TOL (Theolog Online). This is the belief that there are two or more gospels. That Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul. No doubt this false theology was invented to defend Classic OSAS or the idea that you can sin and still be saved. In other words, MAD proponents can just ignore the words of Jesus that refute OSAS. I know. They have told me that Jesus' words do not apply to them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First, again, your experience is not reality.

wow. no pride here is there? News flash, I left God because of that very reason for 5 years. I have personal experience. not to mention personal experience of seeing people in churches I went to all over the united states do the very thing I said. not to mention. witness it in other areas.

Just call around your area and ask the various churches in what they believe. I have talked with many people both online and in person. OSAS is not the narrow road. It is the wide gate belief.

lol. Most churches teach legalism, Most churches are offshoots of the roman mother, and carried many of her heretical beliefs with her.

Osas is not the narrow way> thats funny, most major religions (christian or not) teach one must work, and do good in order to get to heaven. Which is exactly what your teaching. I would say if we look at reality, we know what the wide gate is.

Most big named Pastors today believe in Eternal Security. Doing evil with the thinking you are saved is the wide gate belief here in the States; And it is becoming ever the more popular in other countries. Second, logic should tell you that if there is no real consequence that matters in breaking a Law, then people are going to break that Law. It's not rocket science. Most people would not break the speed limit on the highway if it involved serious

Yuo must be in an area that has alot of upright churches if you say this. Most churches do not believe in eternal security. Most believe on way or another salvation can be lost. Yuo must live in a fantasy world? lets come to reality why don't we.

imprisonment and extreme fines. Telling people that they cannot lose their salvation gives them the green light to sin until the cows come home with the thinking they are saved. You don't need to insult me. You know it's true. For the Scriptures say, be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

If all we taught was you can say a sinners prayer and your saved forever no matter what, I would agree with you. But that is not the gospel. No one truly born of God would even think this.

again, why do you excuse your won sin, why do you think your more righteous than others> where does your judgment come from? are you God?

 

[psychomom]

Yes, I did. But the difference between us is that I did not just share my experience alone, but I....

(a) Shared other testimonies.
(b) Showed an example in real life that if there is no real consequence in doing evil, then that is exactly what most will do.

okay...well i feel sure we could all trot out testimonies of people...(a)

and as for (b)...i've walked with God for 40 years and have yet to meet one of His
children who fail to want to follow Him...
because God is faithful.
He is at work in us both to will and to do.

 

[royalscot]

yes or no question, that can only be answered by you. (personally)

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.John 3

after yes to the question. etc
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Romans 3

after yes to the question. etc

1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, I did. But the difference between us is that I did not just share my experience alone, but I....

(a) Shared other testimonies.
(b) Showed an example in real life that if there is no real consequence in doing evil, then that is exactly what most will do.

so your shared testimonies is greater than other shared testimonies?

is that not being a hypocrit? Just asking.

And your example does not fit.

A person who speeds and gets a ticket has suffered because of his sin.

The penalty of even the least of all sins is eternal judgment, but it does not take away the temporal punishment of sin. All sin will be judged,

only perfect obedience to the law can save a person by his own deeds. otherwise, no one will be saved unless they are given Gods mercy.

when God looks at yuo and adolf hitler. he sees two sinners, who need his salvation. He does not see mother theresa and an evil madman.

The problem with legalism, is they look at man from mans eyes, and not Gods eyes, that is why they can nto see their own sin, and go around judging others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Speaking of two gospels. I dealt with many MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalists) at TOL (Theolog Online). This is the belief that there are two or more gospels. That Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul. No doubt this false theology was invented to defend Classic OSAS or the idea that you can sin and still be saved. In other words, MAD proponents can just ignore the words of Jesus that refute OSAS. I know. They have told me that Jesus' words do not apply to them.

1. James condemned licentiousness (can one who claims to have faith, BUT HAS ZERO ZIP NADA WORKS be saved? No
2. jude condemned licentiousness. And even stated their condemnation was preordained.
3. paul condemned licentiousness.

Just because people twist the words of paul and make a licentious gospel. does nto make pauls gospel of grace a lie.

Instead of looking at what is bad in the world. look at what is even worse in the world. the modern day phariseistic cult of legalism. in the name of Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

See. Who just attacked. Not one place in my post did I say anyone can do evil and still be saved.

it is obvouse you do not read anythign anyone says.



So your sin is not as bad as someone elses sin, is that what your saying?

Yes, we are talking about the bible. what does the bibe say?

Any one who sins (habitually) has never seen God or known him. Any one born of God can not sin (habitually) because they are born of God.

you must read a different bible. or skip over passages which does not support your view.

and again, why are you excusing your own sin, and judging everyone elses? And you wonder why people say you sound like the pharisee.

Yes, I do not read endless ramblings of folks trying to justify how they want to do evil in God's name. Granted, you may not live like the devil (with the thinking you are saved), but your doctrine teaches others to do exactly that. If you teach that a believer can fall out of fellowship with God or sin with the thinking they are still saved (Because nothing can ever cause them to lose their salvation), then folks are goiing to think they are immune to any consequences of sin that will matter to them. Some future chastening of the Lord is not going to deter them. Unbelievers go thru the same problems as believers. It is only the fear of the Lord men depart from evil. What fear? Jesus said fear not him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Hell (i.e. Gehenna, the Lake of Fire). Oh, and no. I am not making excuses for my own sin. I confess my sins and forsake them with the Lord (And not of my own power). I trust in the Lord and His grace right now for my salvation. It is not in what I do. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:10 says Godly sorrow leads to repentance unto salvation. Godly sorrow. Not OSAS where there is no sorrow over one's sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, I do not read endless ramblings of folks trying to justify how they want to do evil in God's name.

lol.. Please show me where I have said this?

Now you not only a liar. Your a bearer of false testimony. And you are a hypocrite. for claiming someone has attacked you. when that is all you ever do.

Your a spoonfed poor soul who has bought into the catholic lie (even if your not catholic) and are one of her children, your excuses is always the same, you can not even read what anyone says, because they say one thing, and you ALWAYS come with the programed responses.

sorry to be so harsh, But it is a fact. every time I talk to you you make the same hypocritical, false testimony, and claim I say things I and myself have never said.

Newsflash, and this is reality

I am not trying to justify my sin, I fall on my knees every day and like the tax collector wonder how God can even use me, let alone save me. because I continue to fail him, As paul said, I do not do what I want, I do what I do not want. Who will free me from this body of sin.

Your the one justifying your sin, You think your sin does not stink, and everyone elses does.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Not OSAS where there is no sorrow over one's sin.

That is an arrogant statement.
You do not know the heart of me nor any other person.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is an arrogant statement.
You do not know the heart of me nor any other person.

the pharisees can not see their own arrogance.

they are too deep in pride.

 

[Jason0047]

wow. no pride here is there? News flash, I left God because of that very reason for 5 years. I have personal experience. not to mention personal experience of seeing people in churches I went to all over the united states do the very thing I said. not to mention. witness it in other areas.



lol. Most churches teach legalism, Most churches are offshoots of the roman mother, and carried many of her heretical beliefs with her.

Osas is not the narrow way> thats funny, most major religions (christian or not) teach one must work, and do good in order to get to heaven. Which is exactly what your teaching. I would say if we look at reality, we know what the wide gate is.



Yuo must be in an area that has alot of upright churches if you say this. Most churches do not believe in eternal security. Most believe on way or another salvation can be lost. Yuo must live in a fantasy world? lets come to reality why don't we.



If all we taught was you can say a sinners prayer and your saved forever no matter what, I would agree with you. But that is not the gospel. No one truly born of God would even think this.

again, why do you excuse your won sin, why do you think your more righteous than others> where does your judgment come from? are you God?

Just because there are many Works Salvationist churches (Of which I do not agree with), does not mean you are looking at all the Bible believing churches (Not cults such as Catholicism, JW's, etc) in your area. It does not mean you investigated the stories of ex-OSAS proponents who did feel enslaved by their sin. It doesn't mean you experienced the darker world of OSAS of which you clearly do not want to see. For folks have committed suicide thinking they were saved because of OSAS. Suicide! That is the evil we are dealing with here. As for your mention of ignoring many Bible verses: Actually, I cannot see how you can read your Bible and think that your salvation is not Conditional. For Jesus says if you do not forgive, then you are not forgiven. How exactly does that verse work in the OSAS model of sin and still be saved? Oh, and I am not God. Far from it. I am only quoting what the Scriptures say. I am using real life examples like Jesus did to illustrate spiritual truth. Something that OSAS cannot do. Because it is a lie. A lie that leads people into a life style of sin. Maybe not everyone. But it does sure do so for a lot of people, though.

 

[Hizikyah]

1. James condemned licentiousness (can one who claims to have faith, BUT HAS ZERO ZIP NADA WORKS be saved? No
2. jude condemned licentiousness. And even stated their condemnation was preordained.
3. paul condemned licentiousness.

Just because people twist the words of paul and make a licentious gospel. does nto make pauls gospel of grace a lie.

Instead of looking at what is bad in the world. look at what is even worse in the world. the modern day phariseistic cult of legalism. in the name of Christ.

I agree with you very very much, but legalisim is in the "eye of the beholder"

What one calls "legalisim" could be seeking to obey Instruction out of a pure heart....

and there is "legalisim" of "justified by works" which is in reality "illegalisim"

seeking to obey Instruction out of a pure heart

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

John 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

 

[Jason0047]

That is an arrogant statement.
You do not know the heart of me nor any other person.

Not all OSAS proponents are alike. I have a close friend who believes in OSAS Lite. It is the teaching that you cannot practice sin otherwise you never knew God. While I disagree with even with this form of OSAS, I can say he is my brother because he does not make excuses for sin for any believer. So when I say OSAS.... I am referring to Classic OSAS and not OSAS Lite. Classic OSAS and Mid Range OSAS both teach that you can sin and still be saved. This is what I am fighting. Evil. People trying to do evil.

 

[royalscot]

do you need to believe to be saved. in a new covenant .
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."

why put a yoke on your own head.

cornilius Acts 10 or Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8

when, were they told to repent. to get the holy spirit.

acts 15 when was a gentile given the full law of moses. (food for thought)

 

[psychomom]

Not all OSAS proponents are alike. I have a close friend who believes in OSAS Lite. It is the teaching that you cannot practice sin otherwise you never knew God. While I disagree with even with this form of OSAS, I can say he is my brother because he does not make excuses for sin for any believer. So when I say OSAS.... I am referring to Classic OSAS and not OSAS Lite. Classic OSAS and Mid Range OSAS both teach that you can sin and still be saved. This is what I am fighting. Evil. People trying to do evil.

who is it here whom you see, trying to do evil?

quite honestly, i'm perplexed.

 

[Jason0047]

I do not know if anyone answered this yet, but what is the OSAS viewpoint on the words of Jesus saying that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven? So far, folks seemed to be avoiding this one. Why is that? If I missed the reply, then I apologize. But I really would love to know. I just can't see how you can twist the plain meaning of that verse.

 

[royalscot]

opinion is up to you. you can choose, what you want to hear or believe.

and the truth will set you free."

 

[Jason0047]

who is it here whom you see, trying to do evil?

quite honestly, i'm perplexed.

People's activities are not published here at CC. But they will be at the Judgment. Anything that is hid will be revealed. Things do not always appear as you think. Remember, Jesus never condoned anyone to do evil. That is the problem I have with OSAS. It says nothing you can do can separate you from God. Yet, the Scriptures repeatedly tell us sin always separates us from God.