Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[john832]

I didn't say the Great Tribulation has passed. Please read what I said.



Many believe (not me) that it has passed. Elin and GaryA believe that the Great Tribulation has been going on since Titus.



The final BEAST power is ISLAM and they are from the North of Israel involving Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran. Time will tell who is right.

The final resurrection (head) will be five nations in Western Europe, five in the East...

Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Two legs, the type was Rome and Constantinople. The end time has ten toes or as we read in Rev 17, then horns.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hahaha. sorry. you made me laugh. Daniel spoke of 4 beasts. Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Rome was the most terrible of those 4.

John gives us 8 beasts: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Ottoman and the Last or 8th, which is of the 7.

Your making me laugh at your ignorance.

Daniel spoke of 4 beats, the last split into two section (rome 1 which will die, be reborn again, and be greater than rome 1 It also will be defeated by Christ at his return to earth.

John gives us 7 gentile kingdoms.


5 were:

egypt, assyria, babylon, media-persia, greek

one is:

Rome

One who is yet to come (future king who at the time of john had not been in power yet):

Rome 2

the last king to be defeated by Christ at his return.

again, do you study much? or just make things up? sorry to be blunt, But I have to ask,

 

[PlainWord]

lol.. You have not studied history or religious cults much have you?

Paganism is based on a multi God system, (look at greek mythology and roman mythology, which was the harlot system which is well documented) that is the mother system.

Islam is not the largest false religion. Romanism and her children far outnumber islam by an enormous amount, they do not even come close.

You can throw all the insults at me that you want. I will try not to return the favor. First off, Catholics are not a false religion. They have some serious doctrinal issues but they acknowledge the true God and that Jesus is His Son who died on the cross for our sins. They give Mary too prominent a place but they teach the basics of salvation. Still there are more people who are Muslim than are Catholic.

BBC News - Homeworld-21443313

How many Roman Catholics are there in the world? There are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world, according to Vatican figures.

Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions › Categories › Religion & Spirituality

As of October 2009, there are about 1.57 billion Muslims of all ages living in the world today (in more than 200 countries of the world).

Which is the larger number???? So you are wrong on this. What else are you wrong about???

 

[PlainWord]

Your making me laugh at your ignorance.

Daniel spoke of 4 beats, the last split into two section (rome 1 which will die, be reborn again, and be greater than rome 1 It also will be defeated by Christ at his return to earth.

John gives us 7 gentile kingdoms.


5 were:

egypt, assyria, babylon, media-persia, greek

one is:

Rome

One who is yet to come (future king who at the time of john had not been in power yet):

Rome 2

the last king to be defeated by Christ at his return.

again, do you study much? or just make things up? sorry to be blunt, But I have to ask,

Man do you ever make up stuff. Again with the insults. Again being wrong... Nowhere are we told Rome will be reborn. John tells us of a "head" that will be mortally wounded, yet lived. He doesn't identify it as Rome.

The 7th beast has already come and past. I'm not surprised you missed it. It was only here for about 620 years which isn't long enough for you to take notice. The OTTOMAN EMPIRE replaced ROME and did so without break just as all the other BEASTS did so without break. John never says the Final BEAST kingdom is the 7th. John tells us the 8th kingdom is the last and it continues for a short time. Here's the passage. Let's see if you can comprehend it.

10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

9 Here is the mind which has wisdom:

Oops, probably not.

 

[PlainWord]

I think I see why you are confused. (Please help me Lord get through to this man). You read Daniel 7 and think he stops with the 4th Beast as the Roman Empire. But that isn't what Daniel says. Daniel never says the 4th beast returns. Read it again.

23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. Already happened.

24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. 25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High...

I'm going to try to help you if you open your mind and eyes. If you can't see this then I give up and I guess you aren't meant to see it, no offense. Daniel tells us that 10 kings will arise up from (replace) Rome. Then another will come after the 10 and will overcome 3 of the 10. It is this "little horn" that the Man of Sin AKA AntiChrist comes from, not from Rome.

 

[PlainWord]

The final resurrection (head) will be five nations in Western Europe, five in the East...

Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Two legs, the type was Rome and Constantinople. The end time has ten toes or as we read in Rev 17, then horns.

I see it differently. 10 nations or heads replaced Rome. I don't see a requirement that half be in Europe. I see so much evidence in both OT and NT that the last BEAST is ISLAMIC. Definitely the Little Horn is from the region of Turkey. Nothing tells me that the RCC plays any major part but certainly they could be deceived then worship this Man of Sin.

 

[john832]

I see it differently. 10 nations or heads replaced Rome. I don't see a requirement that half be in Europe. I see so much evidence in both OT and NT that the last BEAST is ISLAMIC. Definitely the Little Horn is from the region of Turkey. Nothing tells me that the RCC plays any major part but certainly they could be deceived then worship this Man of Sin.

Type and anti-type for the western and eastern.

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Seven heads, the last head has ten horns, the feet in Daniel 2 have ten toes.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

The ten horns give their allegiance to the Beast that is extant at the return of Christ.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Ten toes are the ten horns on the seventh Beast...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Man do you ever make up stuff. Again with the insults. Again being wrong... Nowhere are we told Rome will be reborn. John tells us of a "head" that will be mortally wounded, yet lived. He doesn't identify it as Rome.

The 7th beast has already come and past. I'm not surprised you missed it. It was only here for about 620 years which isn't long enough for you to take notice. The OTTOMAN EMPIRE replaced ROME and did so without break just as all the other BEASTS did so without break. John never says the Final BEAST kingdom is the 7th. John tells us the 8th kingdom is the last and it continues for a short time. Here's the passage. Let's see if you can comprehend it.

10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

9 Here is the mind which has wisdom:

Oops, probably not.

Yuo do not study at all. I did a study of the four beasts. Many of the things the beast was said to do have not even occured yet, so the 7th beast (which was not at the time of John according to his own words) has not come.

Not to mention. In Daniels visions of the 4 beasts, And in Johns version of that same beast, the beast was destroyed by Christ himself.

Thus if the 7th beast is already come and gone, then Christ came and left, and we all missed him..

Again, If your not going to study, but make baseless comments based on opinion, and not biblical fact. there is no need to go on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can throw all the insults at me that you want. I will try not to return the favor. First off, Catholics are not a false religion. They have some serious doctrinal issues but they acknowledge the true God and that Jesus is His Son who died on the cross for our sins. They give Mary too prominent a place but they teach the basics of salvation. Still there are more people who are Muslim than are Catholic.

BBC News - Homeworld-21443313

How many Roman Catholics are there in the world? There are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world, according to Vatican figures.

Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions › Categories › Religion & Spirituality

As of October 2009, there are about 1.57 billion Muslims of all ages living in the world today (in more than 200 countries of the world).

Which is the larger number???? So you are wrong on this. What else are you wrong about???

1. Your the one who started the insults. thank you.
2. Catholic church is a pagan church, if you studied paganism, and catholicism, they are very closely related in all they do.
3. The catholic church teaches a false legalistic gospel, which is really no different than islam, paganism, and any other works based religion.
4. You forgot to add the eastern orthodox (which is part of the roman church) and all her children (the many protestant denomination which are so closely related to her, and follow many, though not all, of her sacramental system of religion which is apposed to the gospel.

 

[Jackson123]

Its all Satanic misdirection. Not you, all the articles linking the Vatican to Jerusalem and the A/C coming from Rome or Jerusalem. Don't believe it. As I said, John was not in ROME when he wrote his 3 letters. He was not in Rome when he wrote Revelation. John was in Turkey. John wrote letters to the seven churches in Turkey warning them of things to come. So, when John says "US" he is literally talking to those same churches in Turkey.

We do very much have evidence that the A/C (Man of Sin, AKA, BEAST from the EARTH) comes from Turkey. We are told Satan's throne is in Turkey.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: [SUP]13 [/SUP]“I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is.

Pergamos is in Turkey. All 7 warning letters go out to churches in Turkey. We are told the Man of Sin is also called "the Little Horn." The Golden Horn is Istanbul which was the capital of the 7th Beast - Ottoman Empire.

We are told that the BEAST from the SEA had 7 heads, one of which was mortally wounded, yet lived.

And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns... We are later told the meaning of the heads...

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Mountains are often referred to as nations or spiritual strongholds. So, one of these nations/strongholds that the Beast sits upon was mortally wounded, yet lived. Could that be said of Rome? Sure but the implication is that his one head/nation comes back to life and plays a dominant part in end times prophesy. Secular Rome does not seem poised to make any kind of come back. Yes, the Catholic faith had been damaged with sex scandals and is trying to become more attractive to the masses, but what of the other 6 heads? There are no nations or spiritual Catholic strongholds around Israel and none of the major Catholic nations appear poised to make any threats towards Israel nor are any Catholic nations mentioned as nations which come up against Israel. Instead, those nations which are named to come up against Israel are all Muslim.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

This BEAST is a religious BEAST made up of 7 historical nations and will be the 8th but of the 7.

Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come.

This was as of John's day. Clearly those 6 are: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome. The 7th has to be the Ottoman Empire. Why, because all were in a continuous line of succession. They also all had one thing in common. They worshiped the same idols and persecuted God's people. Thus, the 8th BEAST to come will be doing the same. While Rome is one of the 7, so is Turkey. Rome is dominated by the Catholic faith which again does not worship idols (although they do have a lot of trinkets and Levetical type ceremonies - still, they are not putting those things above God). The Catholics do not appear to be a threat to kill Jews and Christians. But, what about Turkey?

Turkey is heavily Islamic. They have a new radical and hateful President who has stated he wants Turkey to make a come back. He hates Jews and the west. He does signs and "miracles" already. He is considered an outlaw who loves expensive stuff. He build a new palace that is out of this world.

The Ottoman Empire existed from 1299 when it took over the last part of the Roman Empire - Turkey - until 1922. I just learned this the other day. It was 1922 that the current Saudis defeated the Ottomans in Saudi Arabia. At that time, the Saudis took control of MECCA.

Another thing about Turkey. She is mentioned prominently as a nation who comes against Israel. Daniel tells us of a "KING from the NORTH" who I think sounds identical to Paul's Man of Sin. Rome is more from the West than it is from the North. However, Turkey is directly north from Israel.

Brother Plainword:

So far, this is what I understand you believe, correct me if I am wrong.

1. You believe Turkey is the thrown of Satan.

2. You don't believe that Antichrist will role the word in the End time.

3. It is imply from what apostle John said that Antichrist will come in the end time.

(see the word in the last hour) do you agree?

4. Do you believe the Antichrist as apostle John mention is the same with what Jesus mention that will reign from Holy place?

5. Where is the Holy place which Jesus mention in Matt 24?

 

[Jackson123]

I don't put too much stock in the "Last Hour" phrase. Look at the context. Again, John was speaking in terms of many (not one) and that was the indicator that we are in the "last hour." Look at his use of pluralism.

even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us.

John did not say "last hour before the Great Tribulation." John didn't quantify last hour at all. Could he have meant the last hour of our church being pure? Could it have been the last hour before they start being persecuted? Could it be the last hour before they are arrested? Last hour they are alive. Last hour for what?? The Last Hour comment is post tense or present tense, not future tense.

many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

John seems to be saying the "last hour" was in the present to him...

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour. I take this to mean it already is the last hour, 2,000 years ago.

"Not it will be the last hour", future tense. John then does seem to indicate there will be (Future tense) the AntiChrist coming.

"and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming"

Coming when? He doesn't say. Jesus is coming too, but when?

I try not to get too caught up in what we call the Man of Sin. I call him Satan. You can call him AntiChrist if you want. He is definitely opposed to Christ and wishes to be worshiped in place of Christ. He also wants to be worshiped in place of God.

As for the Pope, he is a compromising man trying to be popular and add to his membership. Could the RCC be the compromising Church John warns in Rev? Regardless, the Catholic religion for all its faults is not the GREAT HARLOT. ISLAM fits it to a tee.

Pope said Atheist go to heaven if doing good, not for ad his membership. If he want to make atheist convert to catholic, must said only catholic go to heaven.

He said that as a blasphemy like what revelation 13 describe about second beast.

 

[PlainWord]

1. Your the one who started the insults. thank you.
2. Catholic church is a pagan church, if you studied paganism, and catholicism, they are very closely related in all they do.
3. The catholic church teaches a false legalistic gospel, which is really no different than islam, paganism, and any other works based religion.
4. You forgot to add the eastern orthodox (which is part of the roman church) and all her children (the many protestant denomination which are so closely related to her, and follow many, though not all, of her sacramental system of religion which is apposed to the gospel.

Let's keep this civil. No need to insult each other over different views of prophesy.

It is my firm belief and the scriptures support me in this IMO. The Catholic church is one of the churches John wrote to in Rev 2-3. Which one, who knows? Could be the Compromising Church. Regardless, I agree the Catholic Church has a lot of things wrong with it. To call in Pagan might be a little harsh IMO, but let's say they are somewhat pagan. However, there is absolutely NO COMPARISON to the level of paganism between ISLAM and the RRC.

Every single description of "the HARLOT" including her location and including the BEAST she is riding fits ISLAM. There is not one single description that doesn't fit ISLAM and the Muslim world. The 4th seal clearly describes ISLAM. The 3rd seal is totally consistent with Saudi Arabia. I would argue the 2nd seal fits the Ottoman Empire and the 1st seal fits the start of Islam with Mohammed but that's conjecture.

What isn't conjecture is the location of the BEAST is Syria, Iraq and Iran (Rev 13). The religion of these countries is ISLAM, not Catholicism. All countries named that go against Israel which are lead by the A/C mentioned throughout the OT are ISLAMIC. ISLAM kills by beheading (Rev 20:4-6). ISLAM hates Jews and Christians, Catholics don't. ISLAM worships an idol, Catholics don't.

MECCA is in the wilderness where John was taken. The RCC is in Rome which is NOT the wilderness. Kings are mostly Arab and not Catholic. Arab kings "fornicate" with ISLAM, not with the RCC. "Merchants" of the earth sell all kinds of luxurious items to Saudi Arabia, not to the Vatican. MECCA sits near the Red Sea where Ships would see her destruction. Rome is too far in land.

Islam worships exactly the same way as the Babylonians.

I do not see the RCC under the leadership of the Pope ever leading a group of Muslim nations to attack Israel or other Muslim nations. ISIS has already called for other Arab nations to attack Saudi Arabia exactly as Rev 17-18 and Jer 50 tells us will happen.

 

[PlainWord]

Pope said Atheist go to heaven if doing good, not for ad his membership. If he want to make atheist convert to catholic, must said only catholic go to heaven.

He said that as a blasphemy like what revelation 13 describe about second beast.

I agree the POPE is compromising. That doesn't make him the A/C. It makes him another false prophet or teacher of which there are many.

Don't have time now to respond to your other post but will ASAP.

 

[kingkong]

And this is why i dont go to church people arguin and being petty

 

[john832]

I agree the POPE is compromising. That doesn't make him the A/C. It makes him another false prophet or teacher of which there are many.

Don't have time now to respond to your other post but will ASAP.

We agree here. It is not the compromising that makes him the A/C, there are a lot of compromisers today.

Antichrist. That is a term that has come to mean, by common usage, the Man of Sin or False Prophet. It is technically incorrect but by common usage it has come to mean that.

 

[PlainWord]

We agree here. It is not the compromising that makes him the A/C, there are a lot of compromisers today.

Antichrist. That is a term that has come to mean, by common usage, the Man of Sin or False Prophet. It is technically incorrect but by common usage it has come to mean that.

I honestly do not see a clear teaching of a character called AntiChrist in the Bible. I see AntiChrist(s) and spirits of AntiChrists going back to John's day and present today. What I see is a super being (likely the Devil himself come in the form of a man) who claims to be above everything worshiped. I see many Christians who think he is Christ. Many Jews think he is the Messiah and many Muslims think he is the Mahdi. I think all religions are turned on their heads and many leave their respective faiths.

I think there will be those who scoff at those of us who stay true to the faith and who reject this creature and his miracles. I think this creature is who Paul calls the Man of Sin and who Daniel calls the King of the North. I think the Muslims flock to him and that he leads them against Israel. I haven't fully developed this yet but when this guy shows up, all hell will break loose.

 

[Jackson123]

I see it differently. 10 nations or heads replaced Rome. I don't see a requirement that half be in Europe. I see so much evidence in both OT and NT that the last BEAST is ISLAMIC. Definitely the Little Horn is from the region of Turkey. Nothing tells me that the RCC plays any major part but certainly they could be deceived then worship this Man of Sin.

So you believe Antichrist will reign from Turkey?

 

[Jackson123]

I honestly do not see a clear teaching of a character called AntiChrist in the Bible. I see AntiChrist(s) and spirits of AntiChrists going back to John's day and present today. What I see is a super being (likely the Devil himself come in the form of a man) who claims to be above everything worshiped. I see many Christians who think he is Christ. Many Jews think he is the Messiah and many Muslims think he is the Mahdi. I think all religions are turned on their heads and many leave their respective faiths.

I think there will be those who scoff at those of us who stay true to the faith and who reject this creature and his miracles. I think this creature is who Paul calls the Man of Sin and who Daniel calls the King of the North. I think the Muslims flock to him and that he leads them against Israel. I haven't fully developed this yet but when this guy shows up, all hell will break loose.

The Antichrist exist since John, Islam not exist in apostle era.

Antichrist, come from within/church.

His mouth /antichrist mouth full of blasphemy/ Example atheist as long as doing good will save.

Muslim in the plan of salvation.

 

[PlainWord]

So you believe Antichrist will reign from Turkey?

Yes, the Man of Sin, Beast from the Sea, King of the North, will most definitely will come from Turkey.

 

[PlainWord]

The Antichrist exist since John, Islam not exist in apostle era.

Yes, agreed.

Antichrist, come from within/church.

There is no clear teaching of this.

His mouth /antichrist mouth full of blasphemy/ Example atheist as long as doing good will save.

The Man of Sin, King of the North, Beast from the Sea does have a mouth full of blasphemy. Making a statement concerning atheists being saved based on works is a false and compromising doctrine. This statement alone does not make the Pope the AntiChrist. Now if the Pope were to become the President of Turkey and lead a coalition of Northern Islamic nations against Saudi Arabia and Israel I may change my mind about him.

Muslim in the plan of salvation.

Not so much, frankly. Who ever takes the "mark" of Islam is doomed to hell.